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RE: Public Beta v1.08.08 now available - 2/20/2016 4:39:20 PM   
JTP

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: morvael

I think 1.07.08 is installed with second expansion. Pretty close to 1.07.10, unless someone has an installer.



No where to download it then ?

(in reply to morvael)
Post #: 61
RE: Public Beta v1.08.08 now available - 2/20/2016 4:59:15 PM   
morvael


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You should keep installers on your computer. If you lost them I think it's possible to ask Matrix for ability to redownload.

(in reply to JTP)
Post #: 62
RE: Public Beta v1.08.08 now available - 2/20/2016 4:59:38 PM   
Red Lancer


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Strictly speaking the thread was opened by the Publisher - a subtle difference. As the Assistant Producer of WitE2.0 I agree with morvael's observations 100%+. As a volunteer too my further observation is that the line between official and volunteer is paper thin. 1.08 was only possible with the blessing of 2by3 in sharing access to the code. The same could be said for WitP:AE.

I surmise that the big differences between continued support and new development is exposure (familiarity breeds contempt?) and the ability to concentrate volunteer tester effort for new games with the lure of a glimpse of the future. Don't underestimate the importance of volunteer effort which is why the community has so much input in the shape of these games.

There is a WitE2 thread - post any suggestions there - there are no promises but there is an acceptance that no-one has a monopoly on good ideas.

_____________________________

John
WitE2 Asst Producer
WitE & WitW Dev

(in reply to morvael)
Post #: 63
RE: Public Beta v1.08.08 now available - 2/20/2016 8:36:16 PM   
Steelwarrior7

 

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Thanks for the continued support - could you somehow have a statistic tracking destroyed SOV ARM and HI and vehicles production?

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Post #: 64
RE: Public Beta v1.08.08 now available - 2/20/2016 9:34:26 PM   
JTP

 

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I have the game installer on my pc, but it's 1.08.04.

I do not have any of the expansions though.

I have no problems with the above version, but wasn't around for the previous ones, so would just like to take a look.

(in reply to morvael)
Post #: 65
RE: Public Beta v1.08.08 now available - 2/21/2016 3:45:50 AM   
pompack


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quote:

ORIGINAL: morvael

You should keep installers on your computer. If you lost them I think it's possible to ask Matrix for ability to redownload.


+1
I have the original load module and every subsequent beta patch and official patch on my hard drive and backed up on my save disk. It costs me little additional time (I am going to download it anyway)and the one thing I have plenty of in these modern days is free disk space.

(in reply to morvael)
Post #: 66
RE: Public Beta v1.08.08 now available - 2/21/2016 4:01:07 AM   
JTP

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: pompack


quote:

ORIGINAL: morvael

You should keep installers on your computer. If you lost them I think it's possible to ask Matrix for ability to redownload.


+1
I have the original load module and every subsequent beta patch and official patch on my hard drive and backed up on my save disk. It costs me little additional time (I am going to download it anyway)and the one thing I have plenty of in these modern days is free disk space.



If there were a place to download them from, I would too.

But since the only download on the Matrix site, for a new purchaser such as myself, is the latest, there ya go.

(in reply to pompack)
Post #: 67
RE: Public Beta v1.08.08 now available - 2/21/2016 12:51:33 PM   
malyhin1517


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Frequent ill-considered changes to the gameplay you alienate players! The game is long, it can play a year or more! Please refer to such things more seriously!

_____________________________

Sorry, i use an online translator :(

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Post #: 68
RE: Public Beta v1.08.08 now available - 2/21/2016 1:10:37 PM   
Wuffer

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: malyhin1517

Frequent ill-considered changes to the gameplay you alienate players! The game is long, it can play a year or more! Please refer to such things more seriously!


Therefore it is called a beta.
a B E T A

:-)

(seriously, a lot of people are obviously without the slightest idea what a 'beta' means, so google it, please. thanks)

(in reply to malyhin1517)
Post #: 69
RE: Public Beta v1.08.08 now available - 2/21/2016 2:38:21 PM   
malyhin1517


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This applies not only beta-versions of the game! I know what means beta version! Specifically, version 1.08.08, the return of all units destroyed after 11/41 - it's wrong from a historical point of view! And still too large losses suffered by German aircraft in 1941!

_____________________________

Sorry, i use an online translator :(

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Post #: 70
RE: Public Beta v1.08.08 now available - 2/21/2016 4:02:34 PM   
chaos45

 

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IDK I more or less this .08 is the wrong direction the game is already super hard mode for German players without maximizing every single move.

.08 to me basically moves the game into auto lose territory for German players. Against a decent Soviet Player a German player has no chance with these additional changes on top of .07 Soviet bonuses.

As you can see from my game vs Pelton played under the old 40 NM 1942 soviets.....He got no further than historical really aside from Leningrad falling and now is starting to be forced back along historical or maybe soon to be faster than historical rates.

An this in a game that played with much worse Soviets for almost an entire game year. .07 made Soviet NM 45 a decent boost for the tons of infantry the soviets have and makes the tank corps better. Now with .08 giving free units and easier to evacuate factories and the bombing on top of that.....IDK seems abit to pro Soviet IMO. An this coming from someone that has only done soviets in player vs player match ups for the most part.

< Message edited by chaos45 -- 2/21/2016 5:40:14 PM >

(in reply to malyhin1517)
Post #: 71
RE: Public Beta v1.08.08 now available - 2/21/2016 5:37:49 PM   
Mehring

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: chaos45

IDK I more or less this .08 is the wrong direction the game is already super hard mode for German players without maximizing every single move.

.08 to me basically moves the game into auto lose territory for German players. Against a decent Soviet Player a German player has no chance with these additional changes on top of .07 Soviet bonuses.

As you can see from my game vs Pelton played under the old 40 NM 1942 soviets.....He got no further than historical really aside from Leningrad falling and now is starting to be forced back along historical or maybe soon to be faster than historical rates.

An this in a game that played with much worse Soviets for almost an entire game year. .07 made Soviet NM 45 a decent boost for the tons of infantry the soviets have and makes the tank corps better. Now with .08 giving free units and easier to evacuate factories and the bombing on top of that.....IDK seems abit to pro Soviet IMO. An this coming from someone that has only done soviets in player vs player match ups for the most part.

"If Pelton can't win on these terms nobody can" is a completely false premise.

_____________________________

“The end of democracy and the defeat of the American Revolution will occur when government falls into the hands of lending institutions and moneyed incorporations.”
¯ Thomas Jefferson

(in reply to chaos45)
Post #: 72
RE: Public Beta v1.08.08 now available - 2/21/2016 6:41:28 PM   
chaos45

 

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Well all the other Germans I have faced quit or surrendered in 1941/1942 if that says anything about the game balance...a bad 1941 is game over for the German player period right now. I dont agree with everything Pelton says as im sure you can see if you read our different AARs on the game. He does have some valid points tho.

If as the German player you cant capture any real industry and cant capture Leningrad, be at the gates of moscow, capture Tula, stalino, Kharkov.....its pretty much game over in 1941. Even if you achieve all of the above which Pelton did in our game you still are most likely going to lose unless the Soviet player really messes up 1942......

The last two patches balance wise seem to have basically made playing Soviets easy mode and playing Germans extreme hard mode for most players IMO. Cause even decent German play will still get you defeated before 1945 in most cases.

(in reply to Mehring)
Post #: 73
RE: Public Beta v1.08.08 now available - 2/21/2016 7:02:22 PM   
morvael


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Let's see, Germans didn't capture Leningrad and Moscow and were forced to retreat from Rostov. Finally the game starts resembling history I think it's now mostly about personal definition of balance... which means capturing Moscow and Leningrad in 1941 for German players. If they would be patient enough and prepared to endure the entire war during which Germans were on recieving end longer than the other way round, there would be less drama on the forum. There are important fixes to replacement system coming in next patch that will allow Germans to maintain higher CV throughout the war. We'll see how it works. We can always return to earlier morale tables, because I'm not in the camp that thinks the cadre (pre war) Red Army was better than what came after it, and it was testers including Pelton that voted in favour of returning to the at start 50 NM for the Soviets. I would gladly see it go away.

< Message edited by morvael -- 2/21/2016 8:04:21 PM >

(in reply to chaos45)
Post #: 74
RE: Public Beta v1.08.08 now available - 2/21/2016 7:12:05 PM   
chaos45

 

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Morvael- agreed but leningrad was a very close run thing historically so could have gone either way with a redo technically.....

As To moscow well IMO if the Soviets lose leningrad/moscow/rostov before 1942 it should be auto lose criteria.

The issue we have in the game is without a historical or better than historical German advance the Soviet army quickly becomes a massive juggernaut easily twice the size it was historically and just start to grind down the Germans.

(in reply to morvael)
Post #: 75
RE: Public Beta v1.08.08 now available - 2/21/2016 7:37:48 PM   
Mehring

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: chaos45

Well all the other Germans I have faced quit or surrendered in 1941/1942 if that says anything about the game balance...a bad 1941 is game over for the German player period right now. I dont agree with everything Pelton says as im sure you can see if you read our different AARs on the game. He does have some valid points tho.

If as the German player you cant capture any real industry and cant capture Leningrad, be at the gates of moscow, capture Tula, stalino, Kharkov.....its pretty much game over in 1941. Even if you achieve all of the above which Pelton did in our game you still are most likely going to lose unless the Soviet player really messes up 1942......

The last two patches balance wise seem to have basically made playing Soviets easy mode and playing Germans extreme hard mode for most players IMO. Cause even decent German play will still get you defeated before 1945 in most cases.

I'm sure Pelton has plenty of valid points but that doesn't absolve other people from the need to sift these from the copious twaddle that accompanies them. I have only played two games as Axis in the last couple of years. I won one, which ran to spring 1943 and I'm, dare I say it, winning the second, now in summer 1943. In both I face massive Soviet OoBs but in the current one particularly, also a proportionately even more inflated Axis OoB. Though I'd like to, I do not attribute this entirely to my own superlative play. As Pelton will agree, but AFAIK only when talking about the Russians, losses are too low. They are too low for the Germans particularly, very much so, that in spite of the high attack losses they suffer after 1941.

I don't agree about the Russian having to mess up anything. The Germans have a CV mobility and concentration which do not figure in Pelton's rather primitive mathematical justifications for self-pity. There is always a weak spot in the Russian line. The ART for the Axis player is to create or find it, then exploit it. War is ART not lowly common sense maths.

< Message edited by Mehring -- 2/21/2016 8:44:24 PM >


_____________________________

“The end of democracy and the defeat of the American Revolution will occur when government falls into the hands of lending institutions and moneyed incorporations.”
¯ Thomas Jefferson

(in reply to chaos45)
Post #: 76
RE: Public Beta v1.08.08 now available - 2/21/2016 7:41:54 PM   
Disgruntled Veteran


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I'd choose balance over history anyday. Balance equals German player who reaches may 45 after a hard fought campaign most of the time. All things being equal. .that doesn't happen much based on personal experience and aars. Before .08 if a German player didn't take leningrad, threaten Moscow and rostov, and then have a strong summer 42, German player wouldn't see may 45..again, all things being equal. With all Russian divisions now coming back for free. The window for a strong summer 42 is smaller than ever. Free Russian rebuilds means never seeing 1945 against strong soviet player. No "drama", just my thoughts. Phone post, forgive grammar.

(in reply to morvael)
Post #: 77
RE: Public Beta v1.08.08 now available - 2/21/2016 7:57:11 PM   
Disgruntled Veteran


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I'll post my findings as they come. This new rebuild rule could also have a few short term advantages for German player too. We'll see.

(in reply to Disgruntled Veteran)
Post #: 78
RE: Public Beta v1.08.08 now available - 2/21/2016 8:12:06 PM   
morvael


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So maybe the problem lies in late war period, with Soviet being too strong and too big. No doubt partially because of both sides playing safe and not risking troops. Maybe because Soviet can mass twice (or even a bit more) as many men per hex. These are the issues I would like too look at, instead of allowing Germans to run wild in 1941 again because otherwise they are bound to lose before 1944 ends. I have yet too see if the new combat loss rules have desired effect on Soviet manpower. It should run low in late war. It's possible to add other types of battle events, for example a rugged defense where attacker takes higher losses in a victorious battle, similar to those suffered currently during a failed attack with enemy counterattacking. Please focus on how we can improve 1943+ instead of trying to return to old 1941. I never wanted to be pro Soviet, many of my changes are pro Axis, but I'm always pro realism, so I don't want impossible to happen too often in 1941 or even become requirement for a draw

(in reply to Disgruntled Veteran)
Post #: 79
RE: Public Beta v1.08.08 now available - 2/21/2016 9:07:18 PM   
chaos45

 

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As long as Pelton keeps playing I'll keep going with our current game- but all hes going to do is keep blaming a lack of armaments. Should show more of the late war changes. In all honesty though casualties seem lower for both sides from the 2 turns I have done under the current patch. I was taking on average closer to 75k-100k losses per week with lots of action....now my soviet losses have dropped down to closer to 30-50k a week. Let me add tho that German losses have stayed about the same...as Im inflicting less in direct combat but now instead of only 2-3k or so losses from airstrikes the soviet airforce is inflicting 5k+ easily so more than makes up for the reduced german combat losses you added in.

Even then it will take awhile for my army to max out on manpower- but I really dont want max men in the field because thats just more trucks used....and im noticing it seems the Soviets are burning more trucks now than previously as I was steadily increasing pre-patch and now it seems to be level off or drop some each week...aside from my capture of 3k German trucks. As Im now losing a decent amount of trucks to combat that didnt used to happen.

Still undecided if I want to commit to another game at this point as they take so long to play out.

(in reply to morvael)
Post #: 80
RE: Public Beta v1.08.08 now available - 2/21/2016 9:10:08 PM   
Mehring

 

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Not necessarily. I think Russian 43+ air support may need toning down a bit but ground elements probably need toning up, particularly vs AFV. I do not turtle, ever, and my summer 43 German OoB is just now beginning to fall below 4.5 million + Axis minors vs 7.3 million Russians. I think both would be lower had my opponent attacked more but nowhere near enough lower. The losses are just too low all round. Looking at combat losses in .08, they generally look better for the Russians (higher), particularly early war, but that will only lead to even more inflated Axis armies. The Russians will derive no benefit from AP free unit shells if they have no manpower to fill them.

Maybe the problem is that players don't like the historical reality of playing divisions at a fraction of their full strength.

< Message edited by Mehring -- 2/21/2016 10:13:15 PM >


_____________________________

“The end of democracy and the defeat of the American Revolution will occur when government falls into the hands of lending institutions and moneyed incorporations.”
¯ Thomas Jefferson

(in reply to morvael)
Post #: 81
RE: Public Beta v1.08.08 now available - 2/22/2016 2:26:03 AM   
Tejszd

 

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Glad to see continued support WitE and do not see an issue with beta versions having changes for people to test.

If you do not want to be impacted by changes in the code that maybe have more impact to balance than desired/planned wait for a non beta patch which will have had much more testing than the developers/testers could do on their own since a beta was released....

(in reply to Mehring)
Post #: 82
RE: Public Beta v1.08.08 now available - 2/22/2016 5:00:14 AM   
Michael T


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I voted against the morale changes. 50 morale in June 41 is nuts. The new morale has put me off playing as IMO the game has swung way in favor of the Reds again. It was almost there I thought with 07. Hence my interest in playing again. But .08 makes it a Soviet cakewalk again. Anyone who thinks otherwise just can't play Soviet.

I am in alignment with Chaos. Put morale back to 07 and find the bug that is displacing HQ's etc in 43+. Please.

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Post #: 83
RE: Public Beta v1.08.08 now available - 2/22/2016 6:08:55 AM   
morvael


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This is one of the few bugs that I heard about but wasn't able to replicate even once. I think it happens only with server games.

(in reply to Michael T)
Post #: 84
RE: Public Beta v1.08.08 now available - 2/22/2016 6:50:48 AM   
Michael T


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It's like a ticking time bomb just waiting to hit Soviets in 43+



FWIW I think its related to the AI and truck shortages.

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Post #: 85
RE: Public Beta v1.08.08 now available - 2/22/2016 8:13:50 AM   
821Bobo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: morvael

This is one of the few bugs that I heard about but wasn't able to replicate even once. I think it happens only with server games.


It would be nice if you can catch this one. It ruined probably my best game.


morvael
Looking at the current Axis morale is there any particular reason why Slovakia has the worst morale? I am probably biased towards Slovakia but performance of the Fast division(and that's basically all what we had on the Eastern front) in 41-42 does not justify 45.

(in reply to morvael)
Post #: 86
RE: Public Beta v1.08.08 now available - 2/22/2016 8:19:41 AM   
Denniss

 

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What is this bug? Anyone with details or even a save?

Slovakians were good soldiers but a number of them (even commanders) were not really willing to fight Hitler's war and they are reported to suffer from high desertion rate.

(in reply to 821Bobo)
Post #: 87
RE: Public Beta v1.08.08 now available - 2/22/2016 8:35:59 AM   
morvael


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This bug is about AI messing with HQs in server games. This must happen somewhere during logistics phase where the AI reorganizes HQs to its liking, thinking it's in control. But I wasn't able to find location of this in code, this would require to play a debug multiplayer game to find out when and why does it happen. Probably I need to do just that. Any volunteers?

< Message edited by morvael -- 2/22/2016 9:37:19 AM >

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Post #: 88
RE: Public Beta v1.08.08 now available - 2/22/2016 8:43:03 AM   
morvael


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Previously Slovakia was in higher tier with Hungary, Italy and Rumania were the lowest. I think I can bump Slovakia to Hungary's level without problem. After all their impact on the game is very small, their air force disappears after a few turns as does HQ and one unit. And the other converts to security division.

(in reply to morvael)
Post #: 89
RE: Public Beta v1.08.08 now available - 2/22/2016 8:52:15 AM   
Michael T


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From: Queensland, Australia.
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Link to HQ bug tech report. Others have suffered a similar bug more recently.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3254415



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Post #: 90
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