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Good looking game but lots to do

 
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Good looking game but lots to do - 1/26/2016 3:22:50 AM   
bretg80

 

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I didn't make the Beta list for this game, but I have a few comments based on what I saw in the first video tutorial.

concerns:

1. The sound effects are old school and remind me of wargames in the 80s. Come'on let's move the genre forward a bit and get some decent sound effects. The bazooka sounds like a rifle firing and the foot soldiers walking sounds like Steel Panthers.

2. Selecting units is very old school, why can't you offset the units and shift-click them on the screen or have a short cut to pick all units in a hex.

3. The combat results window is very generic and not very interesting. I hope there is more work going into this because it is pretty plain and it was hard to tell what happened.

4. Action buttons seem to be all over the place and should be closer to the unit that is using them. This is another area where context sensitive right clicks could be helpful.

likes:

1. LOS tool and firing range tool are nice and the map graphics to go along with them are good.

2. Firing lines help to show where the combat is taking place.

3. Movement is handled very well and I like the fact that the map shows you how many hexes you have left to move if you move incrementally.


It is pretty cool to see a Squad Leader computer based rendition come to life. I hope they continue to improve it and take our feedback to make the game awesome.
Post #: 1
RE: Good looking game but lots to do - 1/26/2016 3:42:02 AM   
Bulldog1

 

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Plus, I really would like to see dice rolling across the screen with a transparent CRT. Half the fun is thinking you have a good shot at breaking a unit but never knowing for sure if the dice will cooperate. Plus ASL provided many surprises with sniper rolls, fanatic, etc. I know we are at the beginning but the game needs to create that angst that dice rolls gives a player. Three clicks of mouse to fire to find out enemy is broken left me kind flat. It doesn't have to be a ASL CRT but create your own that reflects what's going on underneath the hood.
I wish you the best of luck.

(in reply to bretg80)
Post #: 2
RE: Good looking game but lots to do - 1/26/2016 4:00:42 AM   
Gerry4321

 

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Agree that this will really help with immersion. As in you know you need a 5 to get a possible result and you wait for the dice to hit the screen ....

(in reply to Bulldog1)
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RE: Good looking game but lots to do - 1/26/2016 4:06:19 PM   
pad152

 

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As a computer wargamer, I'll never understand how watching dice roll across the screen adds immersion. Some things are best left under the hood.

(in reply to Gerry4321)
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RE: Good looking game but lots to do - 1/26/2016 4:09:57 PM   
Gerry4321

 

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Maybe not dice but as many decisions for the player as possible. It seems from my thread that rally attempts for units happen automatically. So the player just sees the results maybe and is a bit removed from the process. I would prefer if only a few attempts could be made to rally and the player had to choose. Anyways looking forward to this. Bought another game recently but have not played much as I am hoping that Tigers will be the one!

(in reply to pad152)
Post #: 5
RE: Good looking game but lots to do - 1/26/2016 6:45:13 PM   
waltero


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From: Alaska
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quote:

ORIGINAL: pad152

As a computer wargamer, I'll never understand how watching dice roll across the screen adds immersion. Some things are best left under the hood.


Agreed. We don't want dice showing up in the game. Players always becoming immersed with the dice.


Quote:
I know we are at the beginning but the game needs to create that angst that dice rolls gives a player. end quote.

looking for the dice to create a feeling of dread, anxiety, or anguish when you should be getting "that angst" from a enemy sniper, 10+3 leader, HMG, Berserker(expansion), Tank etc.
Allowing dice to enter the game will take away that power/fear from enemy units...then it becomes nothing but a game of dice.
I can run across that open ground- don't worry about that squad firing a HMG directed by a 10+3 leader...my opponent has been rolling crap all day!








< Message edited by waltero -- 1/26/2016 8:56:05 PM >


_____________________________

"WELL ~ Mrs. LIncoln,
other than that, How was the play?

(in reply to pad152)
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RE: Good looking game but lots to do - 1/26/2016 7:04:36 PM   
leftydad

 

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I agree, seeing "dice rolling" ruins the suspension of disbelief. For me, it is the opposite of immersion. Each to his own, but I really like how the game comes across in the video.

_____________________________

James

(in reply to waltero)
Post #: 7
RE: Good looking game but lots to do - 1/26/2016 9:09:13 PM   
fran52


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I'm not so contrary to the dice roll,could be one possibility to have it like an option.

(in reply to leftydad)
Post #: 8
RE: Good looking game but lots to do - 1/26/2016 9:36:25 PM   
Peter Fisla


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Sorry, Tigers on the Hunt is a computer game inspired by ASL board game, so no dice rolls, no game formulas, drm tables or CRT tables exposed. The game is not a board game, I don't want to open up the system because I don't want to get into discussion why I added -/+1 into certain situations. I wan the user to focus on strategy and tactics and not look at the game as one sophisticated spreadsheet data analysis.

< Message edited by Peter Fisla -- 1/26/2016 10:42:49 PM >

(in reply to fran52)
Post #: 9
RE: Good looking game but lots to do - 1/26/2016 10:10:22 PM   
Gerry4321

 

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I understand what you are saying Peter. But on most wargame forums there are debates about e.g. a StuG being too strong or weak relative to some Soviet tank. Are those discussions entertained if people are claiming that such an such a tank wins way too many fights with such and such a tank. I think it is healthy for a game myself.

(in reply to Peter Fisla)
Post #: 10
RE: Good looking game but lots to do - 1/26/2016 10:13:10 PM   
Peter Fisla


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gerry

I understand what you are saying Peter. But on most wargame forums there are debates about e.g. a StuG being too strong or weak relative to some Soviet tank. Are those discussions entertained if people are claiming that such an such a tank wins way too many fights with such and such a tank. I think it is healthy for a game myself.


Sure, I can understand that...I have been in those discussion so many times. Though at the same time, during WW2 the soldiers from all the armies didn't have time to consult CRT, weapon tables and argue about what the StuG should and should not be able to do in a given situation :)

< Message edited by Peter Fisla -- 1/26/2016 11:17:08 PM >

(in reply to Gerry4321)
Post #: 11
RE: Good looking game but lots to do - 1/26/2016 10:14:25 PM   
Gerry4321

 

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I see a Tech Support sub-forum. We must be very close!?

(in reply to Peter Fisla)
Post #: 12
RE: Good looking game but lots to do - 1/26/2016 10:16:53 PM   
Peter Fisla


Posts: 2439
Joined: 10/5/2001
From: Canada
Status: offline
[Posted this on the grogheads forum, sharing it here with you]

It's easy to say that interface could be improved, yes it could of course; if you look at other tactical wargames like say Squad Battles, Pz Command it's easy to overlook the fact that these games only have few units (and the personnel within those units shirt, the unit itself never breaks down into sub units), weapons in a hex. In Tigers on the Hunt, like in ASL; you can have 6 Half-Squads + 6 support weapons, 4 Leaders + 4 support weapons and a Vehicle = 21 objects, never mind the fact that you can also have un-possesed support weapons + ordnance in the same hex, that's just one side. When you have Close Combat segment, the other side can have as well many units and weapons so you can possibly end up with 45+ objects all in the same hex. I can't think of any easy to use control, that would allow you to see all the objects in any meaningful way - without using a grid or tree control. The game code needs to account for all the objects you can have in a hex...otherwise the game will crash. Also in terms of the way interface works to move a unit or to fire with a unit/weapon.

There is a lot of game functionality validation going on behind the interface when the user selects an object and the game provides information to the user what can be done with that selected object (unit/weapon). So the game provides feedback to the user right away, rather then allowing the user to pre-select whole bunch of stuff and only provide message to the user once the user clicks on something on the map to resolve the action.

There is a reason why ASL was never converted to computer, the system is too complex/too expensive from development perspective to port it over properly to computer and for what 5000 copies sold ? I was crazy enough to be inspired by ASL to write my own game. Thinking about how long it took me to get it done now, I'm not sure I would have started it 10 years ago.

< Message edited by Peter Fisla -- 1/26/2016 11:18:20 PM >

(in reply to Gerry4321)
Post #: 13
RE: Good looking game but lots to do - 1/26/2016 11:20:15 PM   
Ronhudale

 

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I agree. Forget the dice. It's a non factor.

(in reply to pad152)
Post #: 14
RE: Good looking game but lots to do - 1/27/2016 4:09:11 AM   
bretg80

 

Posts: 289
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Peter Fisla

[Posted this on the grogheads forum, sharing it here with you]

It's easy to say that interface could be improved, yes it could of course; if you look at other tactical wargames like say Squad Battles, Pz Command it's easy to overlook the fact that these games only have few units (and the personnel within those units shirt, the unit itself never breaks down into sub units), weapons in a hex. In Tigers on the Hunt, like in ASL; you can have 6 Half-Squads + 6 support weapons, 4 Leaders + 4 support weapons and a Vehicle = 21 objects, never mind the fact that you can also have un-possesed support weapons + ordnance in the same hex, that's just one side. When you have Close Combat segment, the other side can have as well many units and weapons so you can possibly end up with 45+ objects all in the same hex. I can't think of any easy to use control, that would allow you to see all the objects in any meaningful way - without using a grid or tree control. The game code needs to account for all the objects you can have in a hex...otherwise the game will crash. Also in terms of the way interface works to move a unit or to fire with a unit/weapon.

There is a lot of game functionality validation going on behind the interface when the user selects an object and the game provides information to the user what can be done with that selected object (unit/weapon). So the game provides feedback to the user right away, rather then allowing the user to pre-select whole bunch of stuff and only provide message to the user once the user clicks on something on the map to resolve the action.

There is a reason why ASL was never converted to computer, the system is too complex/too expensive from development perspective to port it over properly to computer and for what 5000 copies sold ? I was crazy enough to be inspired by ASL to write my own game. Thinking about how long it took me to get it done now, I'm not sure I would have started it 10 years ago.


Wow - 45 counters in a hex, that is madness . That explains your rationale for the tree selection tool. What is going to be even more interesting is to see how you keep track of those units and render the fired vs non-fired. Does the counter stack reduce in size as the units fire? Interesting problem to solve.

Kudos to your efforts in this endeavor, those of us gamers will always provide our input on things we like and dislike and we also appreciate your feedback on why you made the design choices you did.

Keep after it, if the game is good you may sell more than 5000 copies

(in reply to Peter Fisla)
Post #: 15
RE: Good looking game but lots to do - 1/27/2016 5:51:16 AM   
waltero


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From: Alaska
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Would it be possible to get a copy 3 weeks before the release date?
I'll start the bidding at $1000

< Message edited by waltero -- 1/27/2016 6:52:53 AM >


_____________________________

"WELL ~ Mrs. LIncoln,
other than that, How was the play?

(in reply to bretg80)
Post #: 16
RE: Good looking game but lots to do - 1/27/2016 5:53:23 AM   
waltero


Posts: 209
Joined: 1/24/2008
From: Alaska
Status: offline
2 weeks?

Game manual included.

< Message edited by waltero -- 1/27/2016 6:55:27 AM >


_____________________________

"WELL ~ Mrs. LIncoln,
other than that, How was the play?

(in reply to waltero)
Post #: 17
RE: Good looking game but lots to do - 1/27/2016 6:03:29 AM   
fran52


Posts: 590
Joined: 6/4/2012
From: Italy
Status: offline
quote:

Sorry, Tigers on the Hunt is a computer game inspired by ASL board game, so no dice rolls, no game formulas, drm tables or CRT tables exposed.

I can agree but is better to have into the manual some explanation about the game mechanics.I was an ASL player and i know ,more or less,the rules but one totally fasting can have problem to understand.
Also the characteristics of an tank is important to know ,to avoid suicidal situation.

(in reply to waltero)
Post #: 18
RE: Good looking game but lots to do - 1/27/2016 12:38:18 PM   
Peter Fisla


Posts: 2439
Joined: 10/5/2001
From: Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bretg80


quote:

ORIGINAL: Peter Fisla

[Posted this on the grogheads forum, sharing it here with you]

It's easy to say that interface could be improved, yes it could of course; if you look at other tactical wargames like say Squad Battles, Pz Command it's easy to overlook the fact that these games only have few units (and the personnel within those units shirt, the unit itself never breaks down into sub units), weapons in a hex. In Tigers on the Hunt, like in ASL; you can have 6 Half-Squads + 6 support weapons, 4 Leaders + 4 support weapons and a Vehicle = 21 objects, never mind the fact that you can also have un-possesed support weapons + ordnance in the same hex, that's just one side. When you have Close Combat segment, the other side can have as well many units and weapons so you can possibly end up with 45+ objects all in the same hex. I can't think of any easy to use control, that would allow you to see all the objects in any meaningful way - without using a grid or tree control. The game code needs to account for all the objects you can have in a hex...otherwise the game will crash. Also in terms of the way interface works to move a unit or to fire with a unit/weapon.

There is a lot of game functionality validation going on behind the interface when the user selects an object and the game provides information to the user what can be done with that selected object (unit/weapon). So the game provides feedback to the user right away, rather then allowing the user to pre-select whole bunch of stuff and only provide message to the user once the user clicks on something on the map to resolve the action.

There is a reason why ASL was never converted to computer, the system is too complex/too expensive from development perspective to port it over properly to computer and for what 5000 copies sold ? I was crazy enough to be inspired by ASL to write my own game. Thinking about how long it took me to get it done now, I'm not sure I would have started it 10 years ago.


Wow - 45 counters in a hex, that is madness . That explains your rationale for the tree selection tool. What is going to be even more interesting is to see how you keep track of those units and render the fired vs non-fired. Does the counter stack reduce in size as the units fire? Interesting problem to solve.

Kudos to your efforts in this endeavor, those of us gamers will always provide our input on things we like and dislike and we also appreciate your feedback on why you made the design choices you did.

Keep after it, if the game is good you may sell more than 5000 copies



Units that fired, will marked as such in the tree control. In addition, each unit that fired will marked with a graphics marker as well as will be in darkened state - this feature is an option and can be turned on/off. There is also something called a pop up window, when you right click on a hex with units, it graphically show you all the units in the hex.


< Message edited by Peter Fisla -- 1/27/2016 1:41:40 PM >

(in reply to bretg80)
Post #: 19
RE: Good looking game but lots to do - 1/27/2016 2:05:24 PM   
zakblood


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quote:

ORIGINAL: waltero

2 weeks?

Game manual included.


you'd need to ask Ian on that one, admin may or may not think it's a good request or offer

(in reply to waltero)
Post #: 20
RE: Good looking game but lots to do - 1/27/2016 8:23:24 PM   
rickier65

 

Posts: 14097
Joined: 4/20/2000
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: acropora

quote:

Sorry, Tigers on the Hunt is a computer game inspired by ASL board game, so no dice rolls, no game formulas, drm tables or CRT tables exposed.

I can agree but is better to have into the manual some explanation about the game mechanics.I was an ASL player and i know ,more or less,the rules but one totally fasting can have problem to understand.
Also the characteristics of an tank is important to know ,to avoid suicidal situation.


I agree. Hopefully the manual will have explanations of factors involved in the game mechanics.

Thanks
Rick

(in reply to fran52)
Post #: 21
RE: Good looking game but lots to do - 1/27/2016 8:56:49 PM   
Gerry4321

 

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For example a player needs to know if a wooden building give the troops the same protection as a woods hex. How do grain and brush hexes compare in terms of cover, etc.

(in reply to rickier65)
Post #: 22
RE: Good looking game but lots to do - 1/27/2016 9:07:00 PM   
bo

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: waltero

quote:

ORIGINAL: pad152

As a computer wargamer, I'll never understand how watching dice roll across the screen adds immersion. Some things are best left under the hood.


Agreed. We don't want dice showing up in the game. Players always becoming immersed with the dice.


Quote:
I know we are at the beginning but the game needs to create that angst that dice rolls gives a player. end quote.

looking for the dice to create a feeling of dread, anxiety, or anguish when you should be getting "that angst" from a enemy sniper, 10+3 leader, HMG, Berserker(expansion), Tank etc.
Allowing dice to enter the game will take away that power/fear from enemy units...then it becomes nothing but a game of dice.
I can run across that open ground- don't worry about that squad firing a HMG directed by a 10+3 leader...my opponent has been rolling crap all day!









plus 1

Bo

(in reply to waltero)
Post #: 23
RE: Good looking game but lots to do - 1/27/2016 9:54:52 PM   
Peter Fisla


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From: Canada
Status: offline
The game has terrain effect chart, also sections like How to play a scenario as well as How-To section which explains how to move personnel, vehicles, how to fire with personnel, support weapons, ordnance, vehicles including off-board artillery.

(in reply to bo)
Post #: 24
RE: Good looking game but lots to do - 1/30/2016 12:41:23 AM   
misesfan

 

Posts: 71
Joined: 3/15/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Peter Fisla

[Posted this on the grogheads forum, sharing it here with you]

It's easy to say that interface could be improved, yes it could of course; if you look at other tactical wargames like say Squad Battles, Pz Command it's easy to overlook the fact that these games only have few units (and the personnel within those units shirt, the unit itself never breaks down into sub units), weapons in a hex. In Tigers on the Hunt, like in ASL; you can have 6 Half-Squads + 6 support weapons, 4 Leaders + 4 support weapons and a Vehicle = 21 objects, never mind the fact that you can also have un-possesed support weapons + ordnance in the same hex, that's just one side. When you have Close Combat segment, the other side can have as well many units and weapons so you can possibly end up with 45+ objects all in the same hex. I can't think of any easy to use control, that would allow you to see all the objects in any meaningful way - without using a grid or tree control. The game code needs to account for all the objects you can have in a hex...otherwise the game will crash. Also in terms of the way interface works to move a unit or to fire with a unit/weapon.

There is a lot of game functionality validation going on behind the interface when the user selects an object and the game provides information to the user what can be done with that selected object (unit/weapon). So the game provides feedback to the user right away, rather then allowing the user to pre-select whole bunch of stuff and only provide message to the user once the user clicks on something on the map to resolve the action.

There is a reason why ASL was never converted to computer, the system is too complex/too expensive from development perspective to port it over properly to computer and for what 5000 copies sold ? I was crazy enough to be inspired by ASL to write my own game. Thinking about how long it took me to get it done now, I'm not sure I would have started it 10 years ago.


Respectfully disagree - right clicking on a stack would mitigate some of the fiddly-ness when selecting units. And ASL could never be converted into a computer game because of SSR's - not mechanics. Heck, Combat Mission is a fine game and adheres to much of the ASL ruleset and it was developed 20 years ago.

Hopefully, your game will have a deep campaign game, because I think that lack of a campaign will really kill a tactical game nowadays.


< Message edited by pwieland -- 1/30/2016 1:43:19 AM >

(in reply to Peter Fisla)
Post #: 25
RE: Good looking game but lots to do - 1/30/2016 4:31:53 PM   
ezzler

 

Posts: 856
Joined: 7/4/2004
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Much as I like campaigns, ASL was primarily a scenario game. The campaigns only came a long way down the development.
The hook was in having every available armoured vehicle or support weapon available as a counter.

i used to really want ASL campaign games. And rushed to buy them when released. But , in truth, they were always a bit fiddly. And didn't play the way the scenarios did. The fast pace was lost as players were more careful with their units.

I did enjoy the campaigns. The Airbourne one particularly. But many other players much preferred a simple 'fight for the commissar's house.' Or 'Hill 30 must be taken'

(in reply to misesfan)
Post #: 26
RE: Good looking game but lots to do - 1/31/2016 6:35:47 PM   
Rosseau

 

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The graphics remind me a bit of John Tiller's latest game (Pz Battles: Normandy), which is a compliment. Old school, but in a good way? If everything promised on the product page is included - and the AI is a little better than HPS stuff - it will certainly be a welcome addition.

I plan to get it immediately based on looks alone. Best of luck

(in reply to ezzler)
Post #: 27
RE: Good looking game but lots to do - 1/31/2016 8:27:33 PM   
helmick

 

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I'm excited and have been waiting years like many other for someone to at least attempt to build a game inspired by SL/ASL. Combat Mission came close but really didn't scratch that itch and the new Combat Mission missed it by a mile for me.

I'd love to see added to this game via DLC the possibility of multi storied buildings in the future.

(in reply to Rosseau)
Post #: 28
RE: Good looking game but lots to do - 1/31/2016 9:14:15 PM   
Gerry4321

 

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+1 to the buildings request.

Also would like Matrix/Slitherine to look into some way of playing this in Slitherine's servers.

If the game selss well there are so many exciting possibilities such as scenario packs around a theme, etc.

(in reply to helmick)
Post #: 29
RE: Good looking game but lots to do - 1/31/2016 10:01:04 PM   
Delaware

 

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Very much a John Tiller vibe... but very 1997 looking..... I was reminded of playing Battleground Gettysburg

< Message edited by Delaware -- 1/31/2016 11:02:30 PM >

(in reply to Gerry4321)
Post #: 30
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