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RE: Supplimental: Airborne SNLF's

 
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RE: Supplimental: Airborne SNLF's - 7/15/2019 1:40:32 PM   
Gridley380


Posts: 427
Joined: 12/20/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: el cid again
Now the F-4 and F-5 recon versions of the P-38 are a bit more complicated. I can
improve these - by making the RP-38 upgrade to the F-4. But the F-5 end of production
WITHOUT a replacement is correct. By the late war era MANY factories will be ending
production. It is not "wrong" to have this. The US was both running out of money
and also didn't need nearly as many aircraft late in the war. Production peaks in 1944,
not 1945, and probably had to in any circumstances.


You are quite correct that total production peaked in 1944 - but up until mid-1945 the PTO wasn't getting all US production.

To note one example, the AAF Statistical Digest shows 9,607 AAF aircraft arrived between the various PTO sub-theaters in 1944. In 1945 there were 9,408 - which looks like less until you realize that's only for January through August; the *monthly* rate actually went up almost 50%.

Specific to F-4's and F-5's, the digest shows that in August 1945 there were 323 on hand in the Pacific.

(in reply to el cid again)
Post #: 691
RE: Supplimental: Airborne SNLF's - 7/19/2019 10:46:44 AM   
demol

 

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I set up latest (i hope) RHS 5.24 and immideately found issue that i remember from many years ago: ships "axis motor junk class" had 4 fuel with 1200end (very bad but "normal" fuel effectiveness for such type of vessels) but after refuel they eat 40! fuel for the same 1200end (1/10 from very bad, it takes more fuel than their tonnage).

Is this intended feature or longest overlooked glitch?

//
Also. AI version of RHS is mostly historical? Is there any AI-capable but heavily allied-buffed version to play Japan vs AI?

Thank you.





Attachment (1)

(in reply to Gridley380)
Post #: 692
RE: Supplimental: Airborne SNLF's - 7/19/2019 11:51:14 AM   
Yaab


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demol, read this thread about updating the AI.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4257473

(in reply to demol)
Post #: 693
RE: Supplimental: Airborne SNLF's - 7/19/2019 1:12:31 PM   
demol

 

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So i should take Andy's ai scripts from "scenario 100" and apply them any modded scenario with the same map layout?

Your RHS-stock scenarios have some script included. Is ai overrighting needed for them?

(in reply to Yaab)
Post #: 694
RE: RHS House Rules (Revision for clarity) - 7/26/2019 2:42:09 AM   
el cid again

 

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RHS House Rules [Level II]

Primary House Rule: A player should never do anything which, in his view, would not have been done by a historical commander in the WW2 era.

Active Russians: In scenarios with Active Russians (121, 124, 125 & 129) the Allied player may not attack Japanese positions or units (except by mistake or in reasonable and proportionate reprisal) before the expiration of the non-aggression pact with Japan (1 July 1945). It is easy for either side, due to a settings error, to run an air raid – and a reprisal in kind is fair play. It is also permitted to overfly enemy territory for recon or search missions - at the risk of being shot down by fighters or flak. But a true invasion of Japanese territory, or a major, organized attack on Japanese bases before the treaty expires is forfeiture of the game. The Russians gave proper, 90 day notice they would not renew the treaty. It is assumed they honor the treaty as well as give such official notice in every game. RHS has active Russians to give the Allies several benefits: a) they can control deployment of units; b) they can control upgrading of units; c) they can supply remote locations and recover resources or oil from them; d) they can run recon and search to learn of enemy invasion deployments; e) they can respond to an enemy invasion, or pre-empt one, instead of waiting helplessly as the enemy invasion unfolds until the computer concludes enough hexes have been occupied to “release” Russian units to player control (this is a major problem). These boons may not be abused to permit operations which Stalin would never have authorized, because he was dead set against a two front war.

Whitehorse House Rule: In RHS scenarios 121, 122, 123, 123 & 126 the Allies may not repair the oil wells and refinery at Whitehorse, Yukon until May, 1944. These model the CANOL pipeline and a refinery moved from Texas and it took until May, 1944 to get them fully operational. In JES Scenarios 125 & 129, players have options to repair the oilfields and oil refinery at Kenai, Alaska and/or at Norman Wells, Northwest Territories from May, 1942. This is probably not feasible in Winter or Spring Breakup (how could you move enough supplies to even begin?) - but these are known options not taken IRL. Both are more practical than the CANOL project, which barely worked at all - thick NWT oil in a small pipe in a cold climate was not easy to keep moving. Historical scenarios (121-124 & 126) have the suffix CANOL after Whitehorse and Whitehorse has a base victory point value of 3 (= important minor location for any reason). In these scenarios Norman Wells may not expand oil or refinery production (forcing the historical choices). JES scenarios (125 & 129) have the suffix AKOIL after Kenai and Kenai has a base victory point value of 3. In these scenarios Norman Wells MAY expand oil and/or refinery production (reflecting greater Allied priority in the greater threat context present) but hauling in the supplies required will be very difficult. Kenai is much easier to supply but also much more at risk to capture or damage by the enemy (which is why it was not developed during the war).

Whittier Tunnel: The RR tunnel to Whittier Alaska is considered completed if you repair the port (it starts at zero). Because there is no way to have the rail line incomplete and still run its route (from Anchorage to Seward) we simply have the Whittier hex not function as a port unless you build the port in it. This act is considered to complete the tunnel. There is an engineer unit in the hex to do that.  

Copper Ricer Railroad: The Copper River RR is present in ALL versions of the pwhex files. It runs from Cordova, Alaska to Kennicot, a wholly undeveloped dot location. This RR was abandoned in 1938 when the copper mines were closed due to low copper prices. Other copper mines were reopened in WWII (for example in Michigan and in Montana). This copper mine can be reopened IF an Allied player moves an engineer unit to the dot location along with lots of supplies AND IF repair of resources is turned ON – in which case the RR will function. The Million Dollar Bridge remained in-tact until the 1964 earthquake. This location and RR may be ignored by any player who does not want to use them – and NOTHING will happen in that case – since there will be no production unless the damaged resources are repaired. Tailings at this mine are of economic value, but it is cost prohibitive to fly them out (even if an airfield is built). Today the track has now been turned into road.

Railroad Units: In ODD numbered scenarios, railroad units must move along rail lines. All such units have the word “train” or “RR” in the unit name. If such a unit retreats off a railroad, it may only move back to a rail line by the shortest possible route, even if that forces movement into an enemy occupied or controlled hex. Railroad units do not exist in “simplified RHS” (even numbered scenarios). [The “Off Road RR Patrol Unit MAY leave a RR – it has both tracks and RR wheels].

Amsterdam Island: Location 497, Hex 6,173, near the “West” edge of the map, is functionally the Axis Entry Point. Its game function is to permit Axis raiders and submarines from Europe to enter the map near where they historically entered the Indian Ocean. This island is strictly off limits to the Allies. It is worth zero victory points to the Allies. It is forbidden to invade this island. This is because Axis shipping did not enter at one fixed point at all and because AE has no mechanism to permit entry by Axis vessels using an Entry Zone. Allied naval units are not permitted within three hexes of this hex. Allied aircraft may not recon this island nor search hexes adjacent to this island. The “Axis” (Japanese) Player may not build facilities on Amsterdam, nor land troops. [Landing parties, considered on the ships, may be picked up from the island. This unique “base” serves ONLY as an entry point for Axis naval unit reinforcements.

Axis Off Map Entry Track: Axis naval units entering at Amsterdam Island may now move DUE WEST into the Axis Off Map Entry Track. Allied naval units may never enter this track. It allows movement of Axis units to simulate a course SW from the Cape of Good Hope, past the Crozet Islands, coming up on the Southern map edge near the one ice shelf feature present on (all, stock, extended and RHS) maps. The little green cross at the end of this track is the Alternate Axis Entry Point. No Allied ships or searches are allowed within three hexes of this point. It permits Axis vessels to enter the map over a range of hexes and is a compromise intended not to limit the Allies much at all but to give the entering vessels some chance of survival (instead of automatic interception).

Viscount Melville Island: This island, at hex 191,7 near the NE map corner, is functionally the Canadian Entry Point. Only RCM Police St Roche uses this point. Its game function is to permit Allied ships that transited the NW Passage to appear at its western end. [Player controlled ships may attempt the NW Passage only in the Fall season, and only from Eastern Canada (Quebec and the Maritimes) or from the U.K.] It may be built up as a base and it may be attacked, captured and exploited by the enemy.  

Atomic Bomb Air Units: RHS does not use the stock atomic bomb at all. This weapon is not destructive enough and has political effects which are unrealistic (more related to post war views about atomic weapons use). In fact, Gen Marshall planned to use at least 9 atom bombs as part of Operations Olympic and Coronet. In its place RHS has created two atomic bombs - a "Uranium Bomb" and an "Implosion Bomb." These bombs are modeled by 24 devices: one 1% of yield dud device which is almost certain to work; one 33% of yield device which is only about 20% likely to work; and twenty two 3% of yield which are each about 90% likely to work. Typically, about 20 of the non-dud devices will reach their full yield, but it barely matters. The dud devices are themselves very powerful HE bombs with significant ability to penetrate armor. [If the 23 non dud devices fail, they will turn into dud devices themselves, each of which STILL usually destroys a target!] On the other hand, code will have some or many devices fail to “hit the target” at all, depending on altitude. Another problem is players have somewhat too much control over what type of target is hit, although IRL that can be done to some degree by surface bursts at the correct location. Generally, this model works better simulating ground or water bursts than it does high altitude bursts. Because these are not atom bombs in game terms, there is no penalty on victory level no matter how many the Allies use.

Silverplate IB & UB Bombers: The USAAF gets 1 Silverplate UB aircraft per month starting in July, 1945. It also gets two Silverplate IB aircraft per month starting in August 1945. Silverplate UB aircraft may only be assigned to the 393rd Bomb Squadron 3rd Detachment. Silverplate IB aircraft may ONLY be assigned to the 393rd Bomb Squadron 1st and 2nd Detachments. Note the detachments may never attach to the main body of the squadron, but they may (and should) fly together with it (to minimize the risk the atomic bombers may be shot down). Historically, in fact, two one plane detachments flew together – one with the bomb and one on what might be considered a recon mission. It is not required (and not recommended) to bomb at high altitude (unless evading flak) – because at high altitude code will have large numbers of the bomb devices “miss” the target, reducing the effectiveness of the mission. The USAAF always gets atomic bombers at a statistically average rate of 1 UB (Little Boy, gun type, uranium fueled per month (from July 1945) and 2 IB (Fat Man, implosion type, plutonium fueled) per month (from August 1945).

Sliverplate PB Bombers: The US gets three Silverplate PB conventional bombers from May, 1945. The B-29 Silverplate PB aircraft carries a large conventional “Pumpkin Bomb” and is used to give the air crews experience flying missions over enemy territory with the same aircraft. Silverplate PB aircraft may be assigned to any element of the 393rd Bomb Squadron, including the main body. ALL B-29 Silverplate aircraft are stripped of defensive weapons to increase range. The B-29 Silverplate PB is the normal bomber assigned to the main body of the 393rd Bomb Squadron, although that unit could in theory operate any bomber. All elements of the 393rd appear at Tinian on 30 May, 1945 and initially may ONLY operate the B-29 Silverplate PB. Later, when Silverplate IB and Silverplate UB aircraft appear, the detachments may operate aircraft with the same suffix (UB or IB) as the detachment has, OR with the PB suffix.

Japanese UB Bombers: In some circumstances, IF industry in Japan is functional late in 1945, Japan may USE 1 G8N1 UB with an atom bomb every four months (from August 1945) and/or may USE 1 Ki-91 UB every four months (from October 1945). [A factory builds 1 per month, but a special house rule causes the air units allowed to use them to appearing only every 1 months. See below.] RHS assumes that, had the war lasted longer, and if the Allies do not destroy Japanese industry – or deprive it of resources to produce HI points if undamaged – it might be possible for Japan to produce a few atom bombs. IF there are HI points sufficient, AND IF there is a specific engine plant actually producing Ha-45 engines, AND IF there is a specific aircraft factory dedicated to the G8N1 UB aircraft, THEN Japan may produce ONE such AIRCRAFT per month. Also, if it dedicates a second aircraft factory to the Ha-42 engine, and a second factory to making the Ki-91 UB variant, it may also produce ONE of these AIRCRAFT per month. Factories producing Japanese UB MUST be limited to 1 per month. These may ONLY be operated by tiny one plane air units (the G8N1 UB by the JNAF Special Chutai UB, and the 67th Independent Bomber Detachment UB by the JAAF). These units appear with non UB aircraft. They may convert to the UB aircraft of their service when available. They may conduct Recon, search, transfer or transport missions at will. But once (and every time) they convert to UB suffix aircraft, they MUST disband after use. The UNIT will reappear 4 months later. NO OTHER Japanese air unit may use bombers with a UB suffix and these two units are restricted to the UB of their respective service. There may, however, eventually be several UB aircraft of a given type in the pools: there are simply no bombs available unless the one unit that can fly them is available. The idea is to simulate the limited atomic fuel supply on top of draconian production restrictions making plane production hard to achieve so late in the war. Note that Japanese atomic bombers do have defensive armament, unlike the Silverplate B-29s, which fly combat missions unarmed. These features model the actual design philosophy of both nations.

Ghost Submarines: Both sides get a small number of “ghost submarines” (both at start and as reinforcements). These subs are ONLY present in Full RHS Scenarios (those with odd numbers). They are normally set to computer control and left to do whatever the computer wants. If damaged, out of fuel, or out of torpedoes however, players need to return them to a base and fix/refuel/rearm them. As well, Ghost submarines may be in an area that the war has “passed by” – in which case a player may take momentary control to direct them to a more active area. At start, after repairs or refueling/rearming, or to send to a more active area – a player simply assigns a new patrol zone and then returns the sub to “computer control.” Ghosts are NOT possible to identify in enemy reports. An owner, however, can see they have “too much range, too many shots, and no guns.” Their torpedoes miss 99% of the time and do NO damage if they do hit. They cause ASW escorts and aircraft to waste shots – but gain experience in the process. They also simulate rumors and false interpretations of various phenomena. This device works very well but may be present in insufficient numbers. In 1982, the Royal Navy faced a single modern submarine (a second was too noisy to risk use and a very old WW2 type was used as a surface transport – which does not count as a submarine). It made 200 AS attacks “expending almost every piece of ASW ordnance in inventory” but only two of these were valid attacks on an actual submarine. And RN was the NATO navy most focused on ASW proficiency at the time with far better sonar than WW2 ships had.

Chinese Deployment Restriction (Burma and India): Normally, units that are restricted (permanent) may not go very far. They are confined to the land body they are on, or to adjacent land bodies with “ferries” between them. This was added so there was no restriction moving between Japanese Home Islands, or among many islands in the same territory (e.g. the Philippines or NEI). To see quickly if there is a road ferry, press the R key. To see quickly if there is a railroad ferry, press the Y key. The USSR has other restrictions in code: it simply cannot enter non Soviet Allied territory. But China is different. It is connected by road to Burma and, by trail (at start) to India. [Eventually better roads are built]. More than that, some Chinese units appear where they form in India. In game mechanics terms, Chinese units can move all the way to Ceylon (which is connected by Railroad and RR ferry to Ceylon), in unlimited numbers. To prevent the use of Chinese troops where they would not be sent – ROC China has its hands full in China and fears other Chinese factions nominally “allied” with it – Chinese units may not enter hexes in Burma more than eight hexes from the Chinese border UNLESS they are in transit from where they formed (in India) to China. Chinese units in Burma within eight hexes of China MAY engage in combat operations. Chinese units more than eight hexes from China in either Burma or India may never attack or be used to defend a location from a nearby Japanese force.

Note that in JES scenarios, the Tea and Horse Caravan Road is upgraded very early in the war to a primary road. In JES, UK and US units may use the upgraded primary road for strategic movement. This road exists in strictly historical scenarios as well, but it is mostly a secondary road and, near the China-India-Burma border, it seasonally turns into a trail during monsoon. The road was a significant supply line historically, and there WAS an attempt to upgrade it. Tibet – a separate country in 1941 – refused to permit Chinese engineers cross the border. Tibet – treated as a Commonwealth nation because it is armed by the British – has a tiny army of three static battalions – each tied to a strategic place it had to stay: the political capital, the religious capital (keeping an eye on the former “army” of monks), and at Chamdo, capital of a region just won by invading China, an “army of occupation.” [These battalions have precisely two heavy weapons – two Vickers machine guns – almost the weakest heavy weapons outfit of any battalions in the game]. No Chinese unit with RED or Warlord in its name may use this road. ROC Chinese units may use it to transit from India to China (but not vice versa). They will not be able to use strategic movement due to code restrictions.

Chinese Deployment Restriction (Inside China): Allied Chinese units come in several flavors. Russian allied ones are code restricted may not enter ROC Chinese territory. They are treated as Russian units and may enter Japanese controlled territory. Japanese Chinese units which are in the service of the Kwangtung Army may not leave Manchukuo’s borders. Japanese Chinese units designated NCPC – and also Japanese Army units assigned to any command subordinate to Kwangtung Army – may never cross the Yangtze River (or be South of it). Similarly, Allied Chinese units with the prefix RED may never cross the Yangtze River. Similarly, Japanese Chinese units designated RGC, and also Japanese Army units assigned to any command subordinate to the Chinese Expeditionary Army (South China Area Army in JES) may not cross the Yellow River (or be North of it). There is a zone between the Yellow River and the Yangtze River in which these restrictions overlap (for both sides). Note RED and ROC Chinese units may never cooperate in an attack – only one or the other may attack. Warlord troops are treated as if they were ROC troops. ROC and RED Chinese units may never cooperate in an attack, but may cooperate in defense if in the same hex when the enemy attacks.


(in reply to el cid again)
Post #: 695
RE: Supplimental: Airborne SNLF's - 7/26/2019 2:50:33 AM   
el cid again

 

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Joined: 10/10/2005
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Re your first item - about "production peaking" - is somewhat misleading. Depending on the
sources, there may be considerable slop in the data, but "arriving in theater" ought to
include all aircraft, however assigned, however they come. In RHS, we cover vast numbers of
these by transferring units from ETO, particularly when this was officially contemplated.
They certainly DO arrive in theater, but they do NOT represent increases (or even maintenance
of) production. Numbers of types actually END production in 1944 and 1945. RHS is not
one scenario - it is a set of seven (of which one is restricted to use as a 1945 test bed
for late war devices - it needs more or less a million field changes). So we offer
different late war assumptions: strictly historical ones and the presumably more difficult
Japan Enhanced ones - in which US production is sustained rather longer than the strictly
historical ones. Regardless, vast numbers of aircraft (and ships and ground units) transfer
into theater rather than show up as new production. The larger problem in game terms is
that this much larger set of Allied units must be "fed" with supplies and fuel. And we don't want
late war levels of both to the same as 1941 levels. So we went to the trouble of insuring both
are correct: much more supply is available late in the war.

Where specific data is available for a type in inventory in early 1945, this data is used by
the Downfall Scenario (which begins just before Iwo Jima). This data cannot apply to a 1941
start of game scenario - a host of factors will determine the early 1945 inventories of aircraft.
But we do try to model that in more sophisticated ways than stock did. The Allies have a number
of "repair shops" which seem to be aircraft factories. These rebuild damaged machines. Important
types get additional production over transfers to the theater, modeling the significant rebuild
activities in theater. As well, for a major production type, there is always a 1% "free replacement"
factor built in for the duration of production for that type. These are machines rebuilt off map.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Gridley380

quote:

ORIGINAL: el cid again
Now the F-4 and F-5 recon versions of the P-38 are a bit more complicated. I can
improve these - by making the RP-38 upgrade to the F-4. But the F-5 end of production
WITHOUT a replacement is correct. By the late war era MANY factories will be ending
production. It is not "wrong" to have this. The US was both running out of money
and also didn't need nearly as many aircraft late in the war. Production peaks in 1944,
not 1945, and probably had to in any circumstances.


You are quite correct that total production peaked in 1944 - but up until mid-1945 the PTO wasn't getting all US production.

To note one example, the AAF Statistical Digest shows 9,607 AAF aircraft arrived between the various PTO sub-theaters in 1944. In 1945 there were 9,408 - which looks like less until you realize that's only for January through August; the *monthly* rate actually went up almost 50%.

Specific to F-4's and F-5's, the digest shows that in August 1945 there were 323 on hand in the Pacific.



< Message edited by el cid again -- 7/26/2019 2:55:02 AM >

(in reply to Gridley380)
Post #: 696
Comment on small ships issue - 7/26/2019 2:58:52 AM   
el cid again

 

Posts: 16549
Joined: 10/10/2005
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I was unable to confirm any aspect of this report. None of the stated data is correct. Nor can I show that
the data gets changed in game. Vast numbers of small vessels appear in RHS, and all of them appear to be
functioning properly. I will (as always) review, and if possible fix, any reported issue - but only if it
can be reproduced at source. I cannot explain the reported data. But it isn't happening on any of my several
computers.

quote:

I set up latest (i hope) RHS 5.24 and immideately found issue that i remember from many years ago: ships "axis motor junk class" had 4 fuel with 1200end (very bad but "normal" fuel effectiveness for such type of vessels) but after refuel they eat 40! fuel for the same 1200end (1/10 from very bad, it takes more fuel than their tonnage). Is this intended feature or longest overlooked glitch? // Also. AI version of RHS is mostly historical? Is there any AI-capable but heavily allied-buffed version to play Japan vs AI? Thank you.

(in reply to demol)
Post #: 697
AI versions of RHS (or stock) FYI - 7/26/2019 3:05:36 AM   
el cid again

 

Posts: 16549
Joined: 10/10/2005
Status: offline
According to the last chief programmer of AE, there is no version of AI that is suitable for use
by the Allies. One of the RHS team (Mifune) was a Matrix tester for AI in economic matters: he says
that AI was only tested for six months (which, indeed, covers most games). There is no evidence
that the game was designed to deal with late war levels of forces (or the supplies needed to feed
them well) - which in principle ought to be much higher than early war levels. RHS DID address this
issue in several ways, and Allied production will grow by vast amounts if properly managed.

AI only works reasonably well as Japan, and only for a brief, early period of time. This is because
AI is misnamed - it is not "intelligent" in any sense. It is a fixed script. It does not change ANYTHING
because of events in game. An offensive can be planned for a while. When this inevitably ends, or when
forces it is ordering around are lost, it becomes irrelevant to the situation. It never works even that
well for the Allies, whatever we do. AI is needed for validation testing, but it is never realistic
Players may like it, however, if they want to win "great victories" and don't care how stupid the enemy is!

RHS did NOT revise AI. ONLY ONE RHS scenario is designed to work with it - 122 (named RHSAIO = AI Oriented).
ALL OTHER RHS versions have features that MUST have humans or the computer will to unreasonable things. And
- except for a couple of technical tweeks in the last two updates - RHS has never modified AI at all. Someday -
years from now - if I live long enough and finish Scenario 126 (Downfall) - I may try to write an RHS specific
version for 122 and 126. 126 (Downfall) may not be fun for humans as Japan and it may be the most suitable
for AI - many units are de facto static anyway. The air force must commit suicide and cannot fly most missions
(which happens if you activate Kamakazies). But that is a big maybe.

quote:

ORIGINAL: demol

I set up latest (i hope) RHS 5.24 and immideately found issue that i remember from many years ago: ships "axis motor junk class" had 4 fuel with 1200end (very bad but "normal" fuel effectiveness for such type of vessels) but after refuel they eat 40! fuel for the same 1200end (1/10 from very bad, it takes more fuel than their tonnage).

Is this intended feature or longest overlooked glitch?

//
Also. AI version of RHS is mostly historical? Is there any AI-capable but heavily allied-buffed version to play Japan vs AI?

Thank you.







< Message edited by el cid again -- 7/26/2019 3:10:34 AM >

(in reply to demol)
Post #: 698
RE: RHS Update 5.25 - 8/1/2019 4:34:09 PM   
el cid again

 

Posts: 16549
Joined: 10/10/2005
Status: offline
RHS Update 5.25

https://1drv.ms/f/s!Ap7XOIkiBuUwhZAU7bdtWbbscE_oLg

This comprehensive update is almost exclusively dedicated to class
and ship files, although eratta related to aircraft, devices, groups,
leaders and locations (including task forces) was also worked in.
There are tens or hundreds of thousands of field changes to ship files.
The update was intended to implement the new ship durability standard,
but it has digressed to fixing gross eratta re ship displacement (which
seems rarely to have been entered at full load values for minor vessels)
and armament errors. It is part of a systematic update and more than
half way through the class list. When completed, the new version will
be 5.3. However, so many things are corrected I would hate for a new
game to miss them, nor an ongoing game not to fold them in.

Many types have gained the ability to upgrade or convert to other types.
Ships with more than one mission able to perform either without actually
converting in real life now convert in 1 day (making this consistent with
other RHS types having the same feature). Several new devices were added
so the AA and radar modeling for the Allies is more accurate. Numbers of
radars that seem to never have been used, or were used on the wrong classes,
are now in use. In particular, USN DE's use the SU radar nearly universal
for their classes.

(in reply to el cid again)
Post #: 699
RE: AI versions of RHS (or stock) FYI - 8/1/2019 4:35:33 PM   
el cid again

 

Posts: 16549
Joined: 10/10/2005
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The reported issue with junks (which would, if it existed, apply to large numbers of
classes) is not present at source. I cannot fix what I cannot confirm exists.

(in reply to el cid again)
Post #: 700
RE: RHS Thread Ship Maneuver Ratings - 8/3/2019 5:08:53 PM   
el cid again

 

Posts: 16549
Joined: 10/10/2005
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During a comprehensive review of ship class data, focused on making durability
consistent (and that based on full load displacement, the only meaningful standard
as taught by US Navy damage control schools - from which I hold a Gold Certificate
- meaning best in class), I found some amazing maneuverability values.

Originally an amphib sailor on the last APA ever built (for USN, and probably in
all nations), I strongly object to rating landing craft with extremely high maneuver
values. In the first place, even alone (which is not how landing craft normally
are employed), they maneuver like a shoebox. That is, poorly. But operationally,
a landing craft is NOT ABLE TO MANEUVER AT ALL. If it is to succeed in its combat
mission during an assault landing, the landing craft MUST remain in line with
the reset of the craft in its wave. If it does not do that, the craft will not
"hit the beach" together - and the enemy will concentrate fire on them, one at a time,
the closest one to the beach first. When they beach and drop the bow ramp, this is
particularly effective. [See the opening scene of Saving Private Ryan, the only film
remotely doing a good job showing what an assault landing is like?]

This was so important that each craft has 3 sailors on board. It only takes one sailor
to steer a landing craft. No need for a mechanic, you are not going to fix the engine
during a landing. Anyone can throw a line if you are coming alongside. So why three?
Because sticking your head above the (hopefully) armored steering position likely will
get you killed. Someone has to take over steering the boat. It must be a sailor, not
the troops, who are needed when you hit the beach. Three makes it probable at least one
will still be alive when you hit the beach! So why would a sailor step into the blood
of the previous cox'n (the boss of a boat is a coxswain). Because if you do not, the
troops will shoot you! THEY know that they have no chance if someone is not keeping the
vessel in the line. Which is to say - the boat is NOT free to maneuver at all.

There are other anomalies, but that is the worst one.

So what should the maneuver value be?

Maneuver probably should relate to rate of change of position. This at first blush seems
to imply maximum speed limits maximum maneuver rate. A small vessel, particularly if
designed for maneuvering, might get a multiplier. For example, if a large ship gets
maneuver = maximum speed, a small fast ship (e.g. a destroyer) might get maneuver =
2 x maximum speed. Perhaps an intermediate fast ship (e.g. a light cruiser) might get
1.5 x maximum speed. One might also vary individual ratings for cause. Thus, USS Alaska
class BC - with their terrible turning radius - might be rated as large ships are -
Maneuver = Maximum Speed - or even Maneuver = 0.75 x Maximum Speed - to make them
worse than battleships - which they were. A class noted for outstanding maneuverability
might get a slightly higher multiple than normal for its category.

Requesting thoughts, opinions or any information about the "standards" used by AE
nominally. [The problem is, lacking formal definitions in a manual, people entering data
do not generally know what the standards are, even if they once existed. So data in the
database is inconsidtent, and no person ever reviewed new class data as an editor would
do in a professional organization - to insure consistency with the standard, even if
there was one.] But if there IS a theory nominally officially used - I want to know what
it was?










(in reply to el cid again)
Post #: 701
RE: RHS Level II Comprehensive Update 1.431 (pwhexe, ai... - 8/15/2019 6:20:10 PM   
el cid again

 

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Joined: 10/10/2005
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I am confused. My guess is that you are looking for the AIF 6th and 7th Divisions
as such. If that is the case, you indeed won't find them in that form. They
appear as their component sub units and need to combine to form divisions. Now
in a simplified scenario - the sub units do not appear - and the parent units
do appear. This is true for many divisions. It is part of what "simplified" means.

This matter does not belong in this thread. This is about airborne. It should
be in the RHS thread. That way I would have noticed it sooner.

< Message edited by el cid again -- 8/15/2019 6:21:24 PM >

(in reply to TulliusDetritus)
Post #: 702
RE: RHS Level II Comprehensive Update 1.431 (pwhexe, ai... - 8/15/2019 6:23:03 PM   
el cid again

 

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Simplified scenarios have these divisions as divisions. Full RHS scenarios
have them appear in sub-unit form.

(in reply to TulliusDetritus)
Post #: 703
RE: RHS Thread Sub Maneuver Ratings - 8/25/2019 8:19:12 PM   
el cid again

 

Posts: 16549
Joined: 10/10/2005
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Revision:

This discussion was reviewed. The proposal results are too far for safe
use in game. So are other hypotheses needing too much work to implement.
I settled on adding maximum speed and "durability" (which is depth rating)
- the depth divided by 100 and rounded up - this sum being then divided
by full load displacement (submerged) itself divided by 1,000 rounded up.
This will NOT be implemented until the current surface ship review is
done - then implemented all at once.


Subs have two different maneuver situations - surfaced and submerged.
Since we cannot enter two different values and apply them separately,
sub maneuver needs to be a composite rating.

I propose to add surface and submerged speeds, and divide by the sub displacement
in thousands of tons, rounded up (so a midget under a thousand has a value of 1).

The idea is that faster speed is better maneuverability. Also that smaller
size is better maneuverability. This composite system should work well as it
considers surface speed, submerged speed, and the inverse of size. The result
also is in a range that is generally below surface ship maneuverability - and
in the cases where a sub maneuver rating is higher than a specific surface ship
maneuver rating - it is well deserved - and should outmaneuver the attacks most
of the time.

(in reply to el cid again)
Post #: 704
RE: RHS Comprehensive update 5.26 - 8/25/2019 8:31:13 PM   
el cid again

 

Posts: 16549
Joined: 10/10/2005
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RHS Update 5.26

https://1drv.ms/f/s!Ap7XOIkiBuUwhZAU7bdtWbbscE_oLg

This update includes a new map panel (WPEN08) which
adds trail art in one hex in Thailand, and a new
start of game pwhexe.dat file (also called II41WINTER)
which corrects a river hexside somewhere in China.

It includes every sort of scenario file, but mainly
includes class, device, leader and ship files involved
with the surface ship update implementing the new
durability definition, and also includes revised
detection devices. For the very first time, a new
model distinguishing actual radar from acoustic, visual
and ECM detection is implemented. All use the radar
code - but those devices not really active radar are
likely to fail for various reasons. Note that stock
searchlights, acoustic detectors and even ECM (which
I didn't realize existed) all pretended to be active
radars just as good as actual active radar is. To which
add that pre-production Japanese active radars also now
have a failure rate: this permits introduction on
dates they went to sea WITHOUT being as good as the more
reliable types that replaced them midwar. Finally, note
that I added late war Japanese ECM suites which, in my
view, are astonishing. I once operated a USN AN/WLR-1
set (patented in 1945) which was impressive: signal
gain of a billion to 1 - the limit that is practical.
But the set can only watch one frequency at a time on
only one band (of 7 bands). The Japanese system used
multiple antennas, and multiple sets - providing instant
warning on all bands (with hemispheric - port or starboard -
direction) combined with a direction finding antenna for
any signal of interest. Information on these was not
previously available.

All class slots below the 1300 range are done, and some
above as well. At least one more round is still to come.
The review INCLUDES the new maneuver ratings for SURFACE
vessels.

(in reply to el cid again)
Post #: 705
RE: RHS Thread: Sonar devices - 9/14/2019 3:57:50 PM   
el cid again

 

Posts: 16549
Joined: 10/10/2005
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I am not yet done implementing electronic warfare and radar equipment, and new maneuverability ratings for ships and submarines, and insuring that multiple AAA devices have replaced the original system (whichrates a twin, triple, quad or even octal mount as a simple multiple of a single mount in hit probability - whenthat is never true). [Separate aimed single mounts each have someone else aiming them. As well, they have a different rate of elevation and traverse than a multiple mount does. Both factors make a single gun in a multiple mount less likely to be on target than a stand alone mount is. The multiple mount, however, does throw more shells down range - and dispersal means there is a slightly better chance some of them will hit when aim is not perfect - which indeed is most of the time. RHS multiple mounts use the function of effect times the square root of the number of tubes in the mounting to crudely simulate these effects.]

WHEN this total review of ship classes is finished, I propose to introduce sonar devices.I have some exposure to sonar and sonar simulation. I got bogged down in too much detail: there is no sonar in AE or its ancestor games. I could not do the kind of detail sim I want. But working on countermeasures (which, shockingly, I found was introduced in stock - for aircraft at least) - I figured out we CAN crudely simulate sonar.First - the device function to use is surface search radar. It will detect either a submarine or a surface ship, and sonar really does that.Second - the device must be omnidirectional. Although both hydrophones and active sonars are set up to determine bearing, they can do that on any bearing. Third - we have to work with three parameters. Range - which is always low - accuracy - which is low to moderate, but never high - and dud rate. This is a feature I introduced to deal with prototype radars that fail a lot, and with ECM which fails when the enemy isn't cooperatively transmitting. Sonar has a similar problem - particularly passive hydrophones: if you don't move, they can't hear the noise you are not making. So a hydrophone has a high dud rate. We can model the statistical averages well - just not the details of how these things work in any ordinary sense of simulation. We just have to be content that a patrol boat with a hydrophone is better off than one without one - slightly.Hard code makes ASW more effective according to type of ship. DE is the most effective. DD is second most effective. Maybe the third category is "everything else." [There is a theory there is a third category below DD, above everything else. Difficult to prove by testing.] I attribute this difference to TRAINING and PRACTICE - a DE SHOULD BE better - given equal equipment. So no need to worry about how giving sonar to ships will contradict this hard code. They are complimentary ideas.

(in reply to el cid again)
Post #: 706
RE: Comprehensive Update 5.27 - 9/23/2019 3:29:35 AM   
el cid again

 

Posts: 16549
Joined: 10/10/2005
Status: offline
Level II Update 5.27
https://1drv.ms/f/s!Ap7XOIkiBuUwhZAU7bdtWbbscE_oLg

This update involves almost all scenario files, but most of the work was done
in classes and ship files. There are new devices including new EW devices and
radar devices for both sides. There are a few new or revised leader, pilot,
location, and aircraft records.

In addition, the start of game pwhexe.dat file changed. For some reason, the
hex side between Sinkawang and the South China Sea was no longer blocked. This
has been wrong since stock: Sinkawang is at the head of a bay and is approachable
only from the West.

A new system of maneuverability and durability is substantially implemented here.
This update includes a very new system for submarine maneuverability by definition:

The maximum speed of the submarine (either surfaced or submerged, whichever is greater)
plus the durability of the submarine (practical operating depth in 100s of feet) divided
by the submerged displacement of the submarine (in thousands of tons, rounded up).

The general maneuverability system for surface vessels is fairly simple and based mainly
on ship size:

For vessels below 4,000 tons use twice maximum speed IF speed is at least 15 knots;
(otherwise use maximum speed);

for vessels 4,001 to 10,000 tons, use 1.5 times maximum speed if speed is at least 15 knots;
(otherwise use maximum speed);

for vessels 10,001 tons to 40,000 tons, use maximum speed;

for vessels over 40,000 tons, use 90% of maximum speed.

Durability is full load displacement divided by 300 for armored ships and divided by 450 for
unarmored ships - except of course submarines. DO NOT use standard or deadweight or any other
kind of displacement or tonnage. Otherwise, results are inconsistent.

(in reply to el cid again)
Post #: 707
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