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Scenario for Testing - Longewala, 1971

 
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Scenario for Testing - Longewala, 1971 - 12/20/2015 10:09:37 PM   
Randomizer


Posts: 1314
Joined: 6/28/2008
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The Battle of Longewala was an small but important air/ground action fought in the 1971 Indo-Pakistan War. Throughout December 5th, pairs of Indian Air Force Hawker Hunters supported by an infantry company, field artillery, a FAC and a few other combat aircraft repeatedly attacked a Pakistani armoured column advancing in battalion strength. The attack was driven off with over 34-tanks destroyed, mostly by aircraft rockets while Indian losses were trifling although one Hunter grazed a sand dune but returned to base damaged.

Originally this scenario was posted last week but pulled to tweak the events and forces. The new version is below.

-C

< Message edited by Randomizer -- 12/30/2015 9:35:25 AM >
Post #: 1
RE: Scenario for Testing - Longewala, 1971 - 12/30/2015 8:32:53 AM   
Randomizer


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Joined: 6/28/2008
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The Battle of Longewala, updated and ready for testing and comment. Thanks in advance.

Link to the Wiki article on the battle at Longewala

-C



Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Randomizer -- 12/30/2015 9:36:34 AM >

(in reply to Randomizer)
Post #: 2
RE: Scenario for Testing - Longewala, 1971 - 12/30/2015 2:01:33 PM   
Gunner98

 

Posts: 4328
Joined: 4/29/2005
From: The Great White North!
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Hay C

Ran through and I think I lost but the event firing tells me perhaps it was a draw. See clip

Killed 32 tanks but expended a lot of ammo and infantry! See losses.

Got a few Lua error messages:
@04:14:39Z - 'Couldn't find 2/A/22'
@06:05:54Z - 'Couldn't find 2/A/22' and 'Couldn't find 4/B/22' and 'Couldn't find 9/C/22
I think probably because these units were dead and there was a Lua change mission for them. Might be best to attack with one or two companies and then trigger the breakout with un-engaged forces

Absolutely impressed with the quick turn around on the Hunters - but not their accuracy
Marut's did not get into the fight

All the Inf got wiped out quickly except the HQ pl which wasn't attacked, nor was the Arty Bty - strange as it caused most of the damage with direct fire until it ran out of ammo. Don't know why.

The infantry and Artillery started charging into the fight when I think they should stay put and fight from their holes. Currently they are assigned to a Land Strike mission. Perhaps remove them from the mission and set them to weapons free instead. That way they might stay put.

Command isn't really set up for land fights so they can be a bit frustrating. Have you considered using bunkers to simulate dug in positions? For instance: Bunker ELINT (generic) gives you 25DP's and doesn’t move. You can add whatever weapons and additional ammo you like - as you have done with the Inf Plts. BTW, I don't think Troopers do anything but am not sure. This might look a little funny but I think the effect would be achieved, it would give 25 damage points but would disappear (run away) when effectively hit, as opposed to running around chasing tanks with bayonets and getting chewed up

You might use Bunker 105mm (UK) for the Arty Bty, trim out the extraneous stuff and add 4 more guns. It gives 500DP simulating a dug in gun position which would give the tanks something to chew on for a while

Nice quick scenario. Thanks


SIDE: Indian Air Force
===========================================================

LOSSES:
-------------------------------


EXPENDITURES:
------------------
60x 30mm ADEN Mk2 x 4 Burst [120 rnds]
192x 3-inch Rocket



SIDE: Indian Army
===========================================================

LOSSES:
-------------------------------
12x 7.62mm MG
3x B-10 recoilless rifle (82mm)
1x Marker (Target)


EXPENDITURES:
------------------
2400x 105mm/37 HE
348x 7.62mm MG Burst [20 rnds]
20x 7.62mm MG Burst [20 rnds]
90x B-10 recoilless rifle (82mm)



SIDE: Pakistani Army
===========================================================

LOSSES:
-------------------------------
32x T-54 Main Battle Tank


EXPENDITURES:
------------------
71x 100mm AP
75x 122mm/38 HE



SIDE: Neutral
===========================================================

LOSSES:
-------------------------------


EXPENDITURES:
------------------








Attachment (1)

(in reply to Randomizer)
Post #: 3
RE: Scenario for Testing - Longewala, 1971 - 12/30/2015 6:09:19 PM   
Randomizer


Posts: 1314
Joined: 6/28/2008
Status: online
Thanks for the test, Gunner! Points taken but then you killed 32 tanks and Pakistani's actually lost 34 in the event. That said, it would seem that at least some got to your airfield.

Had thought about the bunkers, it's a good plan since I could not find a way to prevent the platoons from moving after contact. The Troopers were added to the platoons in an effort to make them last longer in battle but it does not appear to work that way.

The Breakthrough and Retreat events are not mutually exclusive. The former fires if a certain area is entered, the latter is triggered solely by losses. The Pakistani automatic victory fires when any tank unit approaches the airfield, which was the battalion's objective. Must re-examine the Pakistani loss tolerance and event-triggering mechanism.

Lua does not appear to be able to read past destroyed units and will not trigger a unit-related event/action where it cannot find a particular units that has been eliminated. Originally there was one action for the entire battalion but any destroyed unit disabled the action with the "Cannot Find..." message. So now there are actions for each company and the intention was that any leakers (companies that had destroyed elements and so were immune to the Retreat event) would become the priority for the Player and fodder for the Maruts. I have an idea on how to mitigate this problem but suspect that the root cause might be lua's inability to simply ignore the absence of a unit in its script. I have not tried scripting with Groups as yet; any idea if it's possible?

I agonized over the Indian guns for quite some time. Without reliable and specific data I thought it probable that the DS Field Battery was probably 25-Pounders but there are none of these in the Cold War DB. Originally the Soviet 85mm guns were used but these proved worse than useless even if their footprint is probably close to that of the 25-Pounder based on shell weight. Then I tried a battery of Soviet 130mm guns but these were capable of winning the battle without air support using just the little Auster FAC as an Air-OP. The final choice was a compromise based upon the existence of an indigenous 105mm howitzer that entered battery service with the Indian Army around this period and that had the range to keep them out of harm's way. There was also no information as to whether the Indian Artillery retained the two-troop eight-gun battery organization of the Commonwealth WW2 Field Regiments or used a "standard" six-gun fire unit. That the Pakistani armour did not attack the guns is by design, presumably they are far enough away that they are not spotted by tanks passing them by. Those accounts that I could find appear pretty dismissive of the Pakistani artillery support and in most test games its utility is limited to the destruction of the Longewana marker in the opening minutes of the scenario. This effect is by design as well.

Thanks for the input, I will definitely take the bunker idea under advisement and try to tweak the event triggers and actions some more.

-C

< Message edited by Randomizer -- 12/30/2015 7:12:27 PM >

(in reply to Gunner98)
Post #: 4
RE: Scenario for Testing - Longewala, 1971 - 12/30/2015 6:30:43 PM   
Gunner98

 

Posts: 4328
Joined: 4/29/2005
From: The Great White North!
Status: offline
C

Would be surprised if the Indian Artillery did not hold onto the 2 troop system until much later, we didn't change until the late 60's.

I think you can assume that they had every gun known to man at the time. Couple years ago I spoke with the Director Indian Artillery who was be-moning the fact that he had to reduce to 164 Fd Regts! He was reasonably certain he could hold onto the 32 Med Regts though! Sheeesh!



B

(in reply to Randomizer)
Post #: 5
RE: Scenario for Testing - Longewala, 1971 - 12/30/2015 7:07:25 PM   
Randomizer


Posts: 1314
Joined: 6/28/2008
Status: online
Only 32-Medium regiments... I would certainly echo that Sheeesh!

Not sure about retaining the two-troop system as it was specialist and equipment intensive. The additional aiming circles, plotters, field phones, land-line and radios, guns and vehicles and the other duplicated gear required many more trained communicators, techs, surveyors, tiffies and drivers in addition to more officers per battery. These were probably drawn from the relatively limited pool of literate, educated, urbanized recruits available to the India of that time and that may have been competing for the Air Force or Navy rather than the combat arms. I have read anecdotal accounts where the RA provided personal to Indian divisions in North Africa and Burma, presumably these would have been of a technical nature. I did find one charming WW2 photo of a battery of Indian 4.5" howitzers using oxen as the prime movers and it was six-guns only; presumably parading as a single fire unit. The assumption that the six-gun battery was the norm during the 1971 war is pure speculation though but most of the images that I found appear to indicate six-gun fire units for both India and Pakistan during this period.

Hopefully somebody with some direct knowledge can chime in with the DS answer.

-C

(in reply to Gunner98)
Post #: 6
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