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Political Play - Tips? - 12/17/2015 2:24:47 PM   
kosmoface

 

Posts: 103
Joined: 8/10/2010
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It is only my second game, but I don't restart when things go wrong. I have a really hard time keeping things in balance. Usually my very first decision haunt me for the rest of the game. Looking at my relationships, the few peeps that like me are like +20 or 40, but the folk that hates me are in the -70 til 200 range. I mean it is good that I have to make decisions that stick, but man is it hard to overcome them.

I usually don't have enough PP to decide everything, maybe 2 or 3 things so most of the decisions are out of my grasp (and my aide de camp got early on a 20 handicap, woohoo) and then I didn't even speak about the cards which are important, too.

I struggle.

Are there any tips or tricks or how are you playing the political game?
Post #: 1
RE: Political Play - Tips? - 12/18/2015 12:51:03 AM   
WingedIncubus


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It is so by design.

You will never have enough PPs to spend on everything, everywhere. Forget it. PPs are a finite, rare resource, and its abundance or scarcity depends on what happens on the field and pleasing the Führer. The more success you encounter on the battlefield, the more PPs you obtain, the decisional leeway you gain. However, you are expected to delegate. Concentrate on Decisions and playing Action Cards that meet the operational goals either you or Hitler set.

And yes, it means also that by doing so you will piss people off, either because they don't like your decisions, either because you don't or can't support them. Accept it. Embrace it. That's one of Nazi Germany's biggest problem, a lack of unity among its commanders and ministers. Too many chiefs and prima donnas, too many factions playing and feeding on one another, by design of the Führer keeping them divided to reign over them.

Some will hate your guts, what matters is to be in favour of the right people for your policies. For instance, if you choose "Support Hitler" your relationship with him is what protects your back. So it pays to actually please him, even if he interferes and changes his mind every month or so. On the other hand if you go "Military Independence" Hitler will loathe your mere sight. In this case being on von Brauchtisch's good side is what makes the difference between you in charge or you being fired.

The German side is much more than just encircling counters and creating huge pockets. You have to balance your relations. If you find that your poor relations hurt your efforts you will have to find ways to mollify them even if the results of such actions aren't optimal.





< Message edited by Drakken -- 12/18/2015 1:57:27 AM >

(in reply to kosmoface)
Post #: 2
RE: Political Play - Tips? - 12/18/2015 12:55:26 AM   
Flaviusx


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The flipside of making the corporal happy is that von Br. will hate you and start interfering with your orders, and reduce the APs of various units. This is happening to me in my present game.

And I'm totally cool with that. The game forces hard choices on you. That's part of the fun.

_____________________________

WitE Alpha Tester

(in reply to WingedIncubus)
Post #: 3
RE: Political Play - Tips? - 12/18/2015 1:00:23 AM   
WingedIncubus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

The flipside of making the corporal happy is that von Br. will hate you and start interfering with your orders, and reduce the APs of various units. This is happening to me in my present game.

And I'm totally cool with that. The game forces hard choices on you. That's part of the fun.


I wish there was a Decision for the German player to support von Brauchtisch being sacked and the Führer taking over, as in real life.

You gain the Führer's absolute trust, so full APs, but only the first priority gives you PPs. Yo do what Hitler tells you to do, period.

(in reply to Flaviusx)
Post #: 4
RE: Political Play - Tips? - 12/18/2015 2:22:58 AM   
kosmoface

 

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Joined: 8/10/2010
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Hey it's no complaint, I like hard decisions, there are too many games where your decisions doesn't matter. I hate that. In the end I was hated by most no chance to balance something, just terrible relationships where I looked. But then, it's probably like in real life and I did very bad in the field. No surprise here. I enjoyed it anyway. Winning smal victories against all odds is very sweet.

Only Hitler liked me, hah!

e.g. Rundstedt I pissed of worth -243 points. The thing is at a very early point I didn't even try to balance it out. There are some very costly decisions and when I "payed" 19 PPs to make Rundstedt happy, I got +4 with him. When I pissed him off it was often -11 or -12. That was unsustainable and went the same way with others, too. If you have a terrible relationship it is downhill from then on, because afaik those decisions cost more PPs - which you simply don't have.

I'm not asking to make it easier - I just was curious to know how others handle it. I have to play more.

< Message edited by kosmoface -- 12/18/2015 3:23:54 AM >

(in reply to WingedIncubus)
Post #: 5
RE: Political Play - Tips? - 12/18/2015 2:45:17 AM   
etsadler

 

Posts: 148
Joined: 4/27/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kosmoface

Hey it's no complaint, I like hard decisions, there are too many games where your decisions doesn't matter. I hate that. In the end I was hated by most no chance to balance something, just terrible relationships where I looked. But then, it's probably like in real life and I did very bad in the field. No surprise here. I enjoyed it anyway. Winning smal victories against all odds is very sweet.

Only Hitler liked me, hah!

e.g. Rundstedt I pissed of worth -243 points. The thing is at a very early point I didn't even try to balance it out. There are some very costly decisions and when I "payed" 19 PPs to make Rundstedt happy, I got +4 with him. When I pissed him off it was often -11 or -12. That was unsustainable and went the same way with others, too. If you have a terrible relationship it is downhill from then on, because afaik those decisions cost more PPs - which you simply don't have.

I'm not asking to make it easier - I just was curious to know how others handle it. I have to play more.


Personally I make every effort to make the decisions that keep the AG commanders happy. Admittedly I have not "graduated" from choosing "Support Hitler" to one of the lower PP options (although I am trying out the "Challenging" AI Difficulty). If you are, I would suggest playing on the "Support Hitler" level until you have figured out what you think is a reasonable strategy.

Also, I think you have to look at some of the choices very critically. Right at the beginning you have the choices to make with the security divisions. Since my focus is keeping the AG happy I always choose to keep them on mop-up duty. Have a strategy for what you want. In my current game I am currently choosing to slight AGN if it is a choice to tick off one of the AG commanders.

Also, having better relations with people makes the PP cost of later actions less (and vice versa). So pleasing the AG commanders pays dividends later as well. I also use this to balance the Trains and Trucks generals. I choose some options to please the Train general early so when I later get decisions that force me to choose between them I can choose the Truck general (although I took so many Train friendly decisions this game that I am hardly converting any track, so I may need to be more judicious). Later in the game you will get more of the Truck related decisions, and having good relations lowers the PP cost of the best option, which also greatly improves AG relationships. Further Truck Secondment decisions that take trucks will generally tick off the AG commander, so I always look to what is causing the problem before making a choice. Often I outran my supply line, and once I move the FSB I won't have a shortage of trucks any more, so I can choose to do nothing, which doesn't anger anyone. Or I hope that I will get a truck refit decision the next turn which will generally repair enough trucks to avoid the Secondment. I am also starting to think that the Extra Artillery Ammunition decisions are never worth it, but I'm still thinking about that one.

Propaganda decisions I often leave to my COS as they are generally expensive. That often costs 1PP for him to do nothing, but he has made one of the other choices from time to time, so I take the chance. I don't move things before I have too, that saves PP as well.

In Summary I say you need to have a plan. With a plan you may make choices that you don't want to to support the plan, but I think that is better than just making each Decision as a stand alone choice.

(in reply to kosmoface)
Post #: 6
RE: Political Play - Tips? - 12/18/2015 3:02:43 AM   
kosmoface

 

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Joined: 8/10/2010
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Thanks. Yeah, I think I panicked when things got ugly and then I lost the initiative, was on the back burner and it spiraled out of my hands. My Aide de Camp got very early on a 20 points handicap, which didn't help much.

It was really interesting to see what happens when you lose control. I love the game for this. Just shows how difficult it was back then. I got up until turn 46 and then gave up, because I had no more trucks and my armies simply could not fight on, because of lack of supply. Very cool to see some divisions come back to life which I had written off, how hard it was to conquer some cities, getting desperate for some more trucks, then after literally weeks of stagnation the breakthrough and bam bam bam 4 cities fell in just some days, I could write a book about it... incredible immersive experience. It is turn based but I did hold my breath from time to time.

< Message edited by kosmoface -- 12/18/2015 4:05:20 AM >

(in reply to etsadler)
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RE: Political Play - Tips? - 12/18/2015 4:34:54 AM   
battlevonwar


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I personally like Military Independence and Moscow First... If I had to choose I would rather these two choices but you're so penalized and under rewarded it upsets me. I would appreciate a HUGE bonus rather than a minor bonus to the fighting men if they know they're fighting to win and in the old fashioned Prussian Spirit. Then perhaps have too much interference from the fanatical leadership to harm you in other ways. Though you can call in extra PPs for a cost of -10 victory points I believe. It's the only way to make the game from rather difficult to rather easy. The cheat buttons. You learn over time what decision does what and what is just a waste of energy. There is also luck involved and not taking objectives in the Fuhrer's desired Theater will cost you. You are winning fast or losing the game fast. I usually start to suffer for PPs by around 8 weeks in and am starved for them. So it may be best to hold off on spending them and make sure your truck and rail generals are happy and your supply is running and forget your AG Commanders... Especially if you go with Hitler you cannot be sacked

P.S. If you go with AGC(that's 50% of your Panzers) and focus on just that Army Commander and Runny is a pain to please I find!

< Message edited by battlevonwar -- 12/18/2015 5:36:27 AM >

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RE: Political Play - Tips? - 12/18/2015 9:05:46 AM   
Riso

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kosmoface
e.g. Rundstedt I pissed of worth -243 points.


This clearly shows relations positive and negative should be capped in some way. Maybe +/- 50. There should be no way to dig yourself such a deep hole.

(in reply to kosmoface)
Post #: 9
RE: Political Play - Tips? - 12/18/2015 10:47:40 AM   
kosmoface

 

Posts: 103
Joined: 8/10/2010
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• The Führer +27 (0/27)
• General Jodl -11 (-19/-30)
• F.M Keitel -44 (0/-44)
• F.M von Brauchitsch -72 (-12/-84)
• Hermann Göring +73 (0/73)
• Joseph Goebbels -69 (0/-69)
• Heinrich Himmler 0 (-6/-6)
• Gen. Gercke +25 (0/25)
• Gen. Wagner -256 (0/-256)
• F.M von Leeb -148 (-12/-160)
• F.M von Bock -30 (1/-29)
• F.M von Rundstedt -204 (-21/-225)

Von Bock was the only one where I could turn the tide for a short while.

Will post more about it, when I made my mind up about it. Still early days.

(in reply to Riso)
Post #: 10
RE: Political Play - Tips? - 12/19/2015 3:42:20 AM   
lancer

 

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Hi,

That's some pretty spectacular adverse relations there.

Once you go below -50 the effects don't get any worse although the further you go the harder it is to recover.

There are decisions that trigger once relationships deteriorate and allow you to take remedial action but there's a cost for doing so that you might want to use elsewhere.

The design deliberately doesn't cap relationships, up or down, and provides plenty of scope for movement in either direction.

You're given the choice of how you want to fight the war and can, if you wish, focus purely on the military dimension to the exclusion of all else. It'd be the equivalent of trying to win the war by barking demanding orders left and right with no regards for anybody else's opinions or dilemmas. You might win but you'll be murdered by your own side immediately after.

You'll get a better outcome if you try and achieve a measure of balance between your relationships with the key people you'll dealing with and the straight military side.

Mechanically, whenever a decision affects a relationship a number of ten sided dice are rolled (usually one but in some cases where strong views are involved, more) to determine the shift in attitude (bias also plays a part). So if you took the exact same option for a decision in different play throughs you could, at the extremes, get a 0 downshift on one occasion (you struck him on a good day) and a -9 on another (you've pushed all the wrong buttons). There are enough decisions in the game that your outcomes are going to be not far from the averages overall (+5/-5). If you've grievously upset somebody it's going to be because of the decisions you've taken, not because of bad die rolls.

Cheers

(in reply to kosmoface)
Post #: 11
RE: Political Play - Tips? - 12/19/2015 10:00:18 AM   
HomoNazi

 

Posts: 1
Joined: 12/19/2015
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I think there is a meta-game you need to play from the beginning.

• The Führer
• General Jodl
• F.M Keitel
• F.M von Brauchitsch

You need to favour a superior, preferably Hitler

• Hermann Göring
• Joseph Goebbels
• Heinrich Himmler

A party member you may wish to curry favour with

• Gen. Gercke
• Gen. Wagner

The logisticians should probably be played off eachother to try keep both at neutral

• F.M von Leeb
• F.M von Bock
• F.M von Rundstedt

Favour one massively (Hitlers objective), stay neutral with the other (Hitlers 2nd objective), and screw the 3rd one over.

----------------

Make your decisions from turn 1 and stick to them.

(in reply to lancer)
Post #: 12
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