Matrix Games Forums

Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

Old Units not with drawing bug back

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the West >> Tech Support >> Old Units not with drawing bug back Page: [1]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Old Units not with drawing bug back - 11/22/2015 5:35:24 PM   
Peltonx


Posts: 7250
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline
2 of the 3 16th PD regiments refuse to with draw.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Beta Tester WitW & WitE
Post #: 1
RE: Old Units not with drawing bug back - 11/22/2015 5:36:21 PM   
Peltonx


Posts: 7250
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline
and the 24th PD

What do divisions now with draw by regiments?




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Beta Tester WitW & WitE

(in reply to Peltonx)
Post #: 2
RE: Old Units not with drawing bug back - 11/30/2015 4:03:24 PM   
KWG


Posts: 1249
Joined: 9/29/2012
Status: offline
Back to normal in the house, so the war goes on.

Thats a big difference, what do we do from here?

_____________________________

"A word was said - a mare is standing by the fence."

(in reply to Peltonx)
Post #: 3
RE: Old Units not with drawing bug back - 11/30/2015 4:27:42 PM   
Seminole


Posts: 2011
Joined: 7/28/2011
Status: online
quote:

2 of the 3 16th PD regiments refuse to with draw.


What elements are they missing?

I've seen the same thing, where various units hang around a long time because they can't get their TOE high enough.
It's seems like the Germans produce about 1 dozen armored cars a year...

I've had some success placing OKW within 5 hexes and making sure there is a depot under the unit.

(in reply to KWG)
Post #: 4
RE: Old Units not with drawing bug back - 11/30/2015 6:59:58 PM   
Harrybanana

 

Posts: 4097
Joined: 11/27/2004
From: Canada
Status: offline
I am having the same problem in my game against QBall where I am the Allies. I have an Indian division in the South of France that has been "withdrawing" for about 3 months now. But it has not been broken down into brigades. I also have 3 British Brigades in Ireland also "withdrawing". Not sure how long they have been there as I only discovered them by chance when my 17th Airborne respawned there after being destroyed.

(in reply to Peltonx)
Post #: 5
RE: Old Units not with drawing bug back - 11/30/2015 8:12:12 PM   
Joel Billings


Posts: 32031
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: offline
Pelton, are these units under the minimum TOE% for withdrawal?

_____________________________

All understanding comes after the fact.
-- Soren Kierkegaard

(in reply to Harrybanana)
Post #: 6
RE: Old Units not with drawing bug back - 11/30/2015 10:28:43 PM   
Q-Ball


Posts: 7279
Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Chicago, Illinois
Status: offline
I have seen that as well, but it's almost always because the unit is missing an element to get up to 75% TOE. For the Germans, the bottleneck is armored cars or SP Flak, both of which suffer way more losses than can ever be replaced

It shouldnt' have an impact on the game, other than a) they consume supplies, and b) if the Allies get really far into Germany, they may encounter some...but they are in not really useful places anyway

_____________________________


(in reply to Joel Billings)
Post #: 7
RE: Old Units not with drawing bug back - 11/30/2015 10:30:53 PM   
Q-Ball


Posts: 7279
Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Chicago, Illinois
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: KWG

Thats a big difference, what do we do from here?


PS: It's not a game changer at all; the units are fixed/frozen in place. Unless you are about to roll into Innsbruck or along the Baltic Coast, you will not encounter them.

_____________________________


(in reply to KWG)
Post #: 8
RE: Old Units not with drawing bug back - 12/1/2015 12:19:56 AM   
KWG


Posts: 1249
Joined: 9/29/2012
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball


quote:

ORIGINAL: KWG

Thats a big difference, what do we do from here?


PS: It's not a game changer at all; the units are fixed/frozen in place. Unless you are about to roll into Innsbruck or along the Baltic Coast, you will not encounter them.



Thanks!, What about for the Germans, are the frozen units drawing supplies and other stuff from the West instead of the East?

< Message edited by KWG -- 12/1/2015 1:37:16 AM >


_____________________________

"A word was said - a mare is standing by the fence."

(in reply to Q-Ball)
Post #: 9
RE: Old Units not with drawing bug back - 12/1/2015 2:14:28 AM   
Q-Ball


Posts: 7279
Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Chicago, Illinois
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: KWG

quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball


quote:

ORIGINAL: KWG

Thats a big difference, what do we do from here?


PS: It's not a game changer at all; the units are fixed/frozen in place. Unless you are about to roll into Innsbruck or along the Baltic Coast, you will not encounter them.



Thanks!, What about for the Germans, are the frozen units drawing supplies and other stuff from the West instead of the East?


The units do draw replacements from the West, but that is WAD; the reason they stay on the map is so the German player doesn't intentionally run down units scheduled to withdraw, and allow a shell to go East, basically. They do consume supplies; shouldn't be a lot though since they are not in combat


_____________________________


(in reply to KWG)
Post #: 10
RE: Old Units not with drawing bug back - 12/1/2015 6:18:38 PM   
KWG


Posts: 1249
Joined: 9/29/2012
Status: offline
Q-Ball

Thanks again, I forgot all about that.

_____________________________

"A word was said - a mare is standing by the fence."

(in reply to Q-Ball)
Post #: 11
Old Units not with drawing bug back - 2/8/2016 5:01:03 PM   
Peltonx


Posts: 7250
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline
Its been 25 turns and this unit is still here wth?

Peltonx vs MR.Floppy

Same sht going on with Peltonx vs KWG




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Pelton -- 2/8/2016 6:03:44 PM >


_____________________________

Beta Tester WitW & WitE

(in reply to KWG)
Post #: 12
RE: Old Units not with drawing bug back - 2/8/2016 5:52:13 PM   
Joel Billings


Posts: 32031
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: offline
Now that you gave me a specific game and unit to check, I was able to download your save and seed the situation. In this case, the unit is set to supply priority 1, which means it will only to attempt replacements on the items that are less than 30% of TOE (there are a couple of these, and I assume that's why you got 20 men on the last turn). You will probably never get to the required manpower for the unit to be withdrawn. The unit also is failing it's admin rolls as it reports directly to OKW that is a long way away from the unit. The nearest depot is also over the mountains from the unit so anything that gets shipped to the unit is taking a long truck ride.

I don't see a bug in this case, however I do see an exploit. The rules about withdrawal were set up so that a unit would rebuild to the 75% required, but by setting the supply priority to 1, you're getting around this. Just as we automatically set units to refit when withdrawing, we should set the unit to supply priority 4 and not allow it to be reset (assuming we can do this at the unit level for these units instead of at the HQ level). I have noted this on our task list for WitE2 and hopefully we can add a fix for both WitW and WitE2 in a coming update.

Now, as for other issues, I ask you to please post a specific MP game with a specific situation/unit to look at when you see a problem. When you post screenshots showing the unit to look at this is golden when combined with a save or usernames of an MP game to download. Between all the games previously released and games in development, there are tons of reports to sift through and those without specific info and saves don't get much attention.

_____________________________

All understanding comes after the fact.
-- Soren Kierkegaard

(in reply to Peltonx)
Post #: 13
RE: Old Units not with drawing bug back - 2/9/2016 2:21:23 AM   
Peltonx


Posts: 7250
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

Now that you gave me a specific game and unit to check, I was able to download your save and seed the situation.
In this case, the unit is set to supply priority 1, which means it will only to attempt replacements on the items
that are less than 30% of TOE (there are a couple of these, and I assume that's why you got 20 men on the last turn).
You will probably never get to the required manpower for the unit to be withdrawn. The unit also is failing it's admin
rolls as it reports directly to OKW that is a long way away from the unit. The nearest depot is also over the mountains
from the unit so anything that gets shipped to the unit is taking a long truck ride.

I don't see a bug in this case, however I do see an exploit. The rules about withdrawal were set up so that a unit would
rebuild to the 75% required, but by setting the supply priority to 1, you're getting around this. Just as we automatically
set units to refit when withdrawing, we should set the unit to supply priority 4 and not allow it to be reset (assuming we
can do this at the unit level for these units instead of at the HQ level). I have noted this on our task list for WitE2 and
hopefully we can add a fix for both WitW and WitE2 in a coming update.

Now, as for other issues, I ask you to please post a specific MP game with a specific situation/unit to look at when you see
a problem. When you post screenshots showing the unit to look at this is golden when combined with a save or usernames of an
MP game to download. Between all the games previously released and games in development, there are tons of reports to sift through
and those without specific info and saves don't get much attention.


Players should not have to baby sit withdrawing units







< Message edited by Pelton -- 2/9/2016 10:38:29 AM >


_____________________________

Beta Tester WitW & WitE

(in reply to Joel Billings)
Post #: 14
RE: Old Units not with drawing bug back - 2/9/2016 4:41:38 AM   
Joel Billings


Posts: 32031
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: offline
Pelton, I think you took my comment in a way it was unintended. As I read my post again I can see you might think I was saying you were exploiting the system. I didn't mean it that way. I meant that the way the rules are written the players could exploit this if they wanted to. It also means that players can do nothing and it still might happen. So I'm actually agreeing with you that it's poor design (not a bug because there's nothing in the rules that forces the supply priority to go up). It was in unintended effect of the supply priority system when it was added on top of how withdrawals are handled. Something that until now no one had noticed. If it takes thousands of players over a year to figure out that this can happen (and only after I was given a shown a save to see the situation), you can see why it doesn't get caught during testing with tens of people.

This bad design generally helps German players in a way unintended, and I agree it should be changed. It's on our list and I'd expect it will be fixed. My suggestion until then is for German players to try to set supply priorities to 4 for units that are withdrawing (although I realize this isn't always easy because it has to be done at the HQ level, not the unit level.

I stand by my request to get specific issues and saves (or MP usernames for a game I can download) as this is how we together get to the bottom of these issues, most of which can be explained by the complexity of the games and unintended consequences of adding additional layers of rules and complexity intended to improve the games. I'm going to delete your post in the other thread as I don't want us to have to keep repeating posts in two threads, when this is the one dealing with the issue you brought up.

_____________________________

All understanding comes after the fact.
-- Soren Kierkegaard

(in reply to Peltonx)
Post #: 15
Page:   [1]
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the West >> Tech Support >> Old Units not with drawing bug back Page: [1]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.246