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Challenger 1's suck this bad?

 
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Challenger 1's suck this bad? - 11/16/2015 12:39:23 AM   
budd


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Ok, this made me cuss. Playing Soviet Tank Rush scenario as Nato. 1st picture is my deployment. I put the challengers with good LOS to the approach, there in screen mode.I have some reinforcements coming on map[more tanks] south of Rensenbach, all the VP's are south of the bridge. According to the briefing the enemy has been spotted moving thru Schwandorf, so there going to be on top of me real quick. The plan was[blown to hell now] to slow the advance, attrit the enemy a bit and hope my challengers scoot back with out taking too much damage. 2 groups of challengers actually scooted toward the enemy[see the blue kia markers 2nd pic]. This was all to give my reinforcements time to get into position. I briefly thought about putting the challengers in Rensenbach on the shore to cover the road, but the LOS wasn't as good and i thought the enemy would get to bridge on the first turn. Ok, what should've i done, thought the challengers were better at range, am i using them wrong here. What do you think. all the challengers on map yellow highlight.
Here's the deployment pic.





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< Message edited by **budd** -- 11/16/2015 1:41:49 AM >


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RE: Challenger 1's suck this bad? - 11/16/2015 12:40:43 AM   
budd


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The aftermath, some died in place. 21 minutes later. I counted 4 enemy KIA's





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Enjoy when you can, and endure when you must. ~Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

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*I'm in the Wargamer middle ground*
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RE: Challenger 1's suck this bad? - 11/16/2015 2:43:04 AM   
Stimpak


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A head on fight is generally inadvisable against superior numbers of superior tanks. The T-80U is the best tank in the game.

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RE: Challenger 1's suck this bad? - 11/16/2015 2:58:42 AM   
budd


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the plan wasn't to head on, shoot and scoot. have to try to slow then down some how 30 minutes until the next force arrives on map. Only one scooted, 2 sat still, 2 scooted toward the enemy.

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RE: Challenger 1's suck this bad? - 11/16/2015 3:34:14 AM   
batteran

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: **budd**

the plan wasn't to head on, shoot and scoot. have to try to slow then down some how 30 minutes until the next force arrives on map. Only one scooted, 2 sat still, 2 scooted toward the enemy.


Yeah, but just look at how many gun you have in the large field here.

Basically, you have an big open field and your tank at one end, and the ennemy at the other.

The one with the number and power win.

Absolutely no strategy here, and the soviets excel at that sort of head-on shooting.

That result is no suprise.

You have to find dead angles for 1 Vs 1 at long ranges. Idealy, you want 12 of your tank shooting at once at only one tank soviet company at once. 100 Soviets Vs 10 Otan in open field never end well.

Find choke-points and fix the Herd here by well-placed tanks with only a small angle of fire. And be ready for a soviet alternative move if they spot your ambush and try another way.

< Message edited by batteran -- 11/16/2015 4:38:06 AM >

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RE: Challenger 1's suck this bad? - 11/16/2015 3:41:35 AM   
batteran

 

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At first tought, you can think that a position with a clear line of sigth and big angles to shoot anywhere in the big field is perfect.

Is not.

Because it mean that anyone in the field can see and shoot at you.

And you are totally outnumbered by the soviets guns.

< Message edited by batteran -- 11/16/2015 4:41:59 AM >

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RE: Challenger 1's suck this bad? - 11/16/2015 4:12:04 AM   
budd


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yea i considered that, i guess with a stand off range of 3 they weren't going to scoot before they were dead. I wonder if units only scoot when enemy units enter there stand off range, thought they would also scoot if taking heavy fire. I'll try to find some angles to cut down on in coming fire.thanks.

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Enjoy when you can, and endure when you must. ~Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

"Be Yourself; Everyone else is already taken" ~Oscar Wilde

*I'm in the Wargamer middle ground*
I don't buy all the wargames I want, I just buy more than I need.

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RE: Challenger 1's suck this bad? - 11/16/2015 7:53:20 AM   
battlerbritain

 

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I just played this same scenario last night. Same result first time (I didn't know where they would come from).

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[Spoiler alert...]
Put the Brits in Rensenbach facing north-east on Hold orders and dump mines at the other end of the bridge.
You can even dump mines on the bridge!
It'll still be tight but with a bit of luck you'll get there.

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RE: Challenger 1's suck this bad? - 11/16/2015 8:16:12 AM   
Lowlaner2012

 

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Or if there is any arty present, lay smoke and use the ch1's thermal imaging to pick off the red tanks....

< Message edited by highlandcharge -- 11/16/2015 9:40:07 AM >

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RE: Challenger 1's suck this bad? - 11/16/2015 9:37:32 AM   
ivanov


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T-80U's are superior to any NATO tank in terms or armor protection, so unless you drop smoke on your units, they will die in a short order. There are also alternative versions of each scenario where the U's are replaced by T-80BV.

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RE: Challenger 1's suck this bad? - 11/16/2015 11:32:26 AM   
Erik Rutins

 

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We did this one for our Twitch stream and the Soviets gave Bart a lot of trouble too. I've won this one, but it's a very tough battle as the British especially if you are playing the variant with the T-80Us instead of the T-80BVs. I'd suggest training on the latter version, then trying the T-80Us once you have your tactics down.

Personally I make sure I hold the bridge by garrisoning the town. I also put part of a platoon in the town to the northwest of the bridge. Reinforcing platoons go into the town for counterattack and fire from the forested hill. Heavy use of artillery for mines/smoke is key, as is smart use of air. That's my $.02, others may have better strategies . Good luck!

Regards,

- Erik


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RE: Challenger 1's suck this bad? - 11/16/2015 3:51:08 PM   
budd


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Thanks everyone, I will be giving it another go soon. One thing that came up is I'd like to see a separate control for arty and air ai control, the ai keeps sending my air support into places it should not go,anyway I can leave the arty for the ai to control and the air to me.

Questions; drop smoke directly on my unit or in front? Anyway to get the tanks to use there smoke dischargers?

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Enjoy when you can, and endure when you must. ~Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

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*I'm in the Wargamer middle ground*
I don't buy all the wargames I want, I just buy more than I need.

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RE: Challenger 1's suck this bad? - 11/16/2015 4:06:30 PM   
ivanov


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quote:

ORIGINAL: **budd**

Thanks everyone, I will be giving it another go soon. One thing that came up is I'd like to see a separate control for arty and air ai control, the ai keeps sending my air support into places it should not go,anyway I can leave the arty for the ai to control and the air to me.

Questions; drop smoke directly on my unit or in front? Anyway to get the tanks to use there smoke dischargers?


Drop smoke directly on your unit. In that way it becomes "invisible" from any direction

If you don't want your planes to attack, just set them to resupply.

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RE: Challenger 1's suck this bad? - 11/16/2015 9:34:19 PM   
CapnDarwin


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One thing to remember, inside 2000m () any main battle tank can take out another and more is better. Cover, distance, smoke, arty and some luck all factor in.

< Message edited by Capn Darwin -- 11/21/2015 1:41:12 PM >


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RE: Challenger 1's suck this bad? - 11/21/2015 4:41:55 AM   
budd


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So let me set the scene. Finally got a chance to replay this scenario and after considering everyone's advice i start off. I keep all my tanks in the Rensenbach with LOS to the bridge approach hex, my scorpion recon units are in the hills across the river for spotting, my strikers are across the river in Altbauerschaft, hidden for now. I drop fascam on the bridge approach hex, following turns i drop smoke on my units nearest the bridge, there in hold posture for now. So everything starts well, the enemy gets stalled on the mined hex at the bridge. My units start potshotting with good results, i'm dropping arty on the approach. Things are going well, my first reinforcements come on map on the left and start firing at the enemy stalled by the bridge. Things start to go sideways, my reinforcements take 5 KIA without moving and next order phase i order them to move toward the city, they never make it. Only 2 units in the HQ survive, I'm not happy . At this time the enemy has breached the mine field and is now moving forward and has entered the city. I still have 8+ hours left, i'm thinking i'm F**ked. the next few cycles i drop more fascam on the bridge and the hex on my side of the river. I manage to split the enemy force with the fascam. I drop smoke to cut the LOS for th enemy units stuck on the bridge, drop arty on them and have my tanks go to work on the enemy units in the city. By this time my last reinforcements enter the map and i start moving them up toward the city. i manage to waste the cut off enemy units before the second wave makes its way to far into the city. Slug fest coming up, I'm dropping fascam and smoke as soon as i get it. It helps pocket the enemy and helps me keep local odds about even in small pocket battles. Still i'm taking casualties, my strikers are gone, my recon almost gone, getting down to under 40% force strength. Still over 5 hours left, i get my reinforcements up to the city, i still hold both 4500 VP's . I keep dropping fascam, i mine the other bridge hex by the other 4500VP, pretty much saves the day. I drop arty[improved muntions] and shift a couple units to get LOS to the small bridge. The worm is starting to turn, i have fought off fierce attacks on both 4500 VP's , the enemy even entered the hex on the southern VP and got pushed back out. Things are looking up i'm still going to work with the arty, i've cleared the small bridge and have no enemy units in LOS by either VP. I'm thinking F**k ya, take that, plans are generated. Resuppling everyone, dropping arty all around the 3000VP which i have no LOS too. The skies clear, visibility goes up, my units on the hill spot enemy units across the river, i drop arty on them and now that everyone is resupplied [I've been at 34% force strength for more than few command cycles] plans are made to move on the 3000 VP, orders are given, units approach the 3000 VP, no enemy units sighted my side of the river. This is going to be sweet, 1 hour 40 minutes left, the enemy appears spent, i check the KIA roster i've knocked out over 80 enemy tanks....sweet, sweet victory.....................................BSOD...you have got to be kinding me.............SOB.

Well i guess i should of checked the save after every order button

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Enjoy when you can, and endure when you must. ~Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

"Be Yourself; Everyone else is already taken" ~Oscar Wilde

*I'm in the Wargamer middle ground*
I don't buy all the wargames I want, I just buy more than I need.

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RE: Challenger 1's suck this bad? - 11/21/2015 5:29:21 AM   
funkatron3000

 

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That really sucks. I was rooting for you as I was reading. I know it's not much consolation but I could take a look at the memory dump to see what caused the BSOD. If it's an old driver you might be able to update it to prevent this kind of thing from happening again. PM me if you're interested.

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RE: Challenger 1's suck this bad? - 11/21/2015 8:47:07 AM   
Lowlaner2012

 

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I feel for you budd, I bet you felt like taking a baseball bat to your PC :-)



I played a few good tanks last night, those T-80 U's are scary as hell, my Abrams fought bravely but where worn down in the end...

Hey if your BSOD starts happening regularly, your RAM might be at fault....

< Message edited by highlandcharge -- 11/21/2015 9:47:49 AM >

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RE: Challenger 1's suck this bad? - 11/21/2015 3:18:00 PM   
budd


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Well i did curse in front of my daughter, had to apologize for that. Wanted to throw the damn laptop out the window without opening it. I also wanted to take the metaphorical bat to the developers a few times, sorry guys. when my first on map reinforcements got taken out in less than an hour i was cursing the devs pretty hard ....you know something like... Well thx for the f**king reinforcements guys, WTF they were a lot of use, what kind of stupid sh** is that, who designed this MF'ing scenario anyway......MR probably likes that. there were several times where i thought things were over, I thought for sure i was hitting the 30% limit. Last time i checked the situation i had a tactical success and i was 2 hexes away from the 3000 VP and had been pounding the VP and surrounding hexes for a few command cycles. Nothing like snatching victory from the jaws of defeat. I probably won't replay this scenario for awhile, not that i wouldn't like to actually finish the damn thing, its just that i don't think i can get anymore fun out of it than i just had, fun is why i play games. Thanks for the frustrating fun OTS.....you SOB's


As far as my Laptop, i'm pretty sure its the memory. its not happening too frequently yet. Good news is i have finally talked myself into getting a new one. and in the vein of once in a lifetime thing...i.e. once in my life i'll get a new car, well i did that, its now 12 years old. This time if i follow through i'll be getting a top of line laptop...once in my life.

_____________________________

Enjoy when you can, and endure when you must. ~Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

"Be Yourself; Everyone else is already taken" ~Oscar Wilde

*I'm in the Wargamer middle ground*
I don't buy all the wargames I want, I just buy more than I need.

(in reply to Lowlaner2012)
Post #: 18
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