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[RESOLVED - USER ERROR] A/Cs are still driving me nuts - dissolving and RTBing

 
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[RESOLVED - USER ERROR] A/Cs are still driving me nuts ... - 11/7/2015 9:40:11 AM   
Sensei.Tokugawa


Posts: 341
Joined: 4/6/2010
From: Wieluñ, Poland
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I am attaching the game save file below and please someone tell me if there is anything wrong with the air missions I plan and order in my gameplay.
I am not placing this in tech support since I still accept the opportunity there might be something wrong with the way I play the game, but lots of my games get wrecked because of the weird A/C behaviour.
This time I checked everything ending with fuel levels in regard to mission demands and that does not seem to be a problem, but after they take off - if they are not already in an endless loop of taxing to the runway and then getting back to the ready status without finally taking off at all - the air groups start dissolving and RTBing. When I unassign and reassign them I get a warning message they don't have enough fuel and are not added to the mission they have just dropped so they RTB.

I though the problem with those loops on the ground in an airbase was too many of them taking off at the same time, but should not the airbase staff handle that in reality and order them into proper queues? So I cancelled CAPs and recon flights to have the early air strike kick off in the morning to knock out the enemy runways and support the air superiority battle that way. Well, the Phantoms took off finally only to have some of them decide to RTB immediately while still dangling over their home base.
I checked the A/C numbers assigned to each missions - three cells meaning six heavy attack jets I assume - two escort cells meaning four interceptors etc., the fuel levels are alright, the distance to target within the limits etc. so WTH?

I have mastered the surface and subsurface warfare here to my great delight, but how come that after over a year I still cannot perform a single proper air mission more complicated that a pair of planes on an AAW patrol? I used to try to guide them to their targets, but then they used to reach the AOO and couldn't acquire a damned thing even painted with radar and / or within visual range. No joy. How come they refuse to acept the missions because of the "fuel restrictions" and then reach the AOO with ease while manually guided? Then I was trying to assign the missions again from within the AOOs - again refusal - no waypoints and/ or no fuel. Result; pointless and endless fruitless loops until Bingo fuel.

So I got back to later tutorials to see if I have missed anything.Came here from games like TOAW III where sea and air warfare sucked to a great extent, because it was a land warfare operational wargame to have a decent simulation here and I loved this game, but the air aspect is still a gross disappointment or I suck at that particular thing big time. In either case please assist.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by emsoy -- 11/7/2015 2:03:49 PM >


_____________________________

"-What if one doesn't make it?
-Then we know he was no good for SpetsNaz. ..."
V. Suvorov, "Spetsnaz;the Story behind the Soviet SAS"

...No escape from Passchendaele .../ God Dethroned, "Passiondale"

Post #: 1
RE: A/Cs are still driving me nuts - dissolving and RTBing - 11/7/2015 11:28:40 AM   
mikmykWS

 

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Thanks for the report. The team will take a look to see how we can address

Mike

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RE: A/Cs are still driving me nuts - dissolving and RTBing - 11/7/2015 11:33:55 AM   
Chris21wen

 

Posts: 5870
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From: Bexhill-on-Sea, E Sussex
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I too sometimes have difficulties getting strikes to work but I've had a play and these are my observations for the Entebbe Airport strike.

Strike a/c flight size is set to three section (6 a/c) but you only have 4 strike Phantoms.
The min range is set to 1, max 2 when the distance to Entebbe is 275 nm.

Your escort flight size is set to two sections (4 a/c) which is fine as you have 4 Phantoms with a AAW loadout but the min number required to trigger the mission is 4 flights (16 a/c).

However you biggest problem with the escorts is they cannot reach Entebbe with their current loadout or at least it looks like that too me. But how you work out the range from the loadout profile I know not.

The other major problem you have is the targets. Runways are not legal targets for 100mm rockets, add something that is (e.g. AvGas) and everything fine. Well I say fine but made the above changes I still could not get the existing Entebbe strike to work. I had to unassign all current a/c and reassign them to a new strike. I think there might be some small but in the mission creation routines or it became corrupted somehow.

One little quirk I did notice is that if you have illegal targets for the current loadout you cannot add strike aircraft to the mission. However if you have a legal target you obviously can but removing the legal target after the mission has formed does not prevent the mission taking off and prosecuting it. All that happens is it does not fire (just gives the AA gunners target practice).

He's by save.






Attachment (1)

(in reply to Sensei.Tokugawa)
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RE: A/Cs are still driving me nuts - dissolving and RTBing - 11/7/2015 11:34:52 AM   
ComDev

 

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Digging into, hold on...

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Developer "Command: Modern Air/Naval Operations" project!

(in reply to mikmykWS)
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RE: A/Cs are still driving me nuts - dissolving and RTBing - 11/7/2015 11:40:37 AM   
ComDev

 

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First of all, what version of the game engine are you using?

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(in reply to ComDev)
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RE: A/Cs are still driving me nuts - dissolving and RTBing - 11/7/2015 11:53:55 AM   
Sensei.Tokugawa


Posts: 341
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From: Wieluñ, Poland
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Certainly the latest - 1.09 final with NI and the latest build number ending with 10.

_____________________________

"-What if one doesn't make it?
-Then we know he was no good for SpetsNaz. ..."
V. Suvorov, "Spetsnaz;the Story behind the Soviet SAS"

...No escape from Passchendaele .../ God Dethroned, "Passiondale"


(in reply to ComDev)
Post #: 6
RE: A/Cs are still driving me nuts - dissolving and RTBing - 11/7/2015 12:02:45 PM   
Sensei.Tokugawa


Posts: 341
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From: Wieluñ, Poland
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That 100mm rockets do not pierce or just wreck the runway is somewhat surprising thing to me,but after all I am not an ordnance specialist so I'll check it later and in the meantime I am taking this assessment at face value.

The attack flight consisted of six aircraft - four Phantoms and two Buccaneers - before some of them got unassigned because they were hastily RTBing right after the take-off. So there were six planes assigned to the bombing itself - as per three sections for heavy attack A/C - and four jets in two cells for escort mission.

You're right that the Phantoms had a problem with reaching the airport itself, but two flight did manage to enter the Ugandan airspace and three Buccaneer cells as a result managed to bomb the runways with their 250 and 500 lbs loads. However they all focused on the longer runway even thought I deleted it in the meantime to make them to focus on the other.

_____________________________

"-What if one doesn't make it?
-Then we know he was no good for SpetsNaz. ..."
V. Suvorov, "Spetsnaz;the Story behind the Soviet SAS"

...No escape from Passchendaele .../ God Dethroned, "Passiondale"


(in reply to Chris21wen)
Post #: 7
RE: A/Cs are still driving me nuts - dissolving and RTBing - 11/7/2015 12:25:40 PM   
ComDev

 

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Chris H nailed it (...and real quick too! Nice!).

I applied his suggestions, i.e. set min/max range to 0 (do not evaluate), flight size to 2, escort requirements to 'No Aircraft', and then the mission planner creates a new flight plan for the airborne aircraft. No problem.

Do you have a savegame of the other issues you experienced?

Thanks

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(in reply to Sensei.Tokugawa)
Post #: 8
RE: A/Cs are still driving me nuts - dissolving and RTBing - 11/7/2015 12:29:58 PM   
cns180784

 

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I just read that in v1.09, sunburn says that to destroy runways you need a heavy precision guided bomb, and in english jets over uganda you dont have any. I played this scenario myself and i had the Buccaneers target the runway access points with their dumb bombs.
The way i did it was first send all my phantoms (with A/A loadouts) and other fighters (with red top A/A missiles) and gave them an AAW patrol over Entebbe which they got air superiority but you need to watch out for more scramblers as not all will launch to start with. With these in the air i used my recon A/C to find the targets at the airport and in the city, which also found AAA batteries. Those A/C armed with rockets were sent to strike the AAA ahead of the Buccaneers, which then struck the targets at the airport. Think the only target they struck in the city was the water treatment plant as the other targets were too close to civilian buildings.

(in reply to Sensei.Tokugawa)
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RE: A/Cs are still driving me nuts - dissolving and RTBing - 11/7/2015 1:08:42 PM   
mikmykWS

 

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User issues likely but we need to determine the best way to help users navigate them. My sense is that although this stuff is the manuals etc. there really is no strike tutorials out there that kind of walk through more complex strikes etc. If there are suggestions for what we could do in our UI to make this easier please let us know. Remember part of the game is about strike planning so we have to let players error like a real life strike planner could.

Mike

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RE: A/Cs are still driving me nuts - dissolving and RTBing - 11/7/2015 1:10:26 PM   
Sensei.Tokugawa


Posts: 341
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From: Wieluñ, Poland
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Indeed I restarted the scenario and redesigned the missions taking into account the notion of the flight size - I seem to have gotten that badly wrong - so I had thus a cell for bombers and launched two cells of Buccaneers and section for their Buccaneer escort so that way I launched two sections, then got the Phantoms into four sections - two for bombing runs and two for escort. Worked pretty well and indeed Phantoms reached the targets, but fired their rockets on the buildings. I was only surprised that when they were left with Sidewinders only they didn't go into Winchester mode and were lazy to return which got one section wiped out by Ugandan MiGs.
Regarding reassigning missions - when governmental buildings were destroyed, one Buccaneer bombing flight dropped the mission - there were no targets for them anymore - but I ordered them in mid-flight to attack the airport and they picked that up in just a swell manner.

< Message edited by burroughs -- 11/7/2015 2:11:28 PM >


_____________________________

"-What if one doesn't make it?
-Then we know he was no good for SpetsNaz. ..."
V. Suvorov, "Spetsnaz;the Story behind the Soviet SAS"

...No escape from Passchendaele .../ God Dethroned, "Passiondale"


(in reply to cns180784)
Post #: 11
RE: A/Cs are still driving me nuts - dissolving and RTBing - 11/7/2015 2:03:38 PM   
Chris21wen

 

Posts: 5870
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quote:

ORIGINAL: burroughs

The attack flight consisted of six aircraft - four Phantoms and two Buccaneers - before some of them got unassigned because they were hastily RTBing right after the take-off. So there were six planes assigned to the bombing itself - as per three sections for heavy attack A/C - and four jets in two cells for escort mission.




I think the flight size refers to the same a/c with the same loadout.

< Message edited by Chris H -- 11/7/2015 3:04:46 PM >

(in reply to Sensei.Tokugawa)
Post #: 12
RE: A/Cs are still driving me nuts - dissolving and RTBing - 11/8/2015 6:13:12 AM   
ComDev

 

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Mission Editor intro:

http://www.warfaresims.com/?p=3653

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Developer "Command: Modern Air/Naval Operations" project!

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RE: A/Cs are still driving me nuts - dissolving and RTBing - 11/8/2015 7:43:37 AM   
Chris21wen

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: emsoy

Mission Editor intro:

http://www.warfaresims.com/?p=3653


New I read it somewhere.

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Post #: 14
RE: A/Cs are still driving me nuts - dissolving and RTBing - 11/8/2015 2:59:12 PM   
Sensei.Tokugawa


Posts: 341
Joined: 4/6/2010
From: Wieluñ, Poland
Status: offline
Thanks a lot, that should fix my issues for good, regarding the current state of affairs.

_____________________________

"-What if one doesn't make it?
-Then we know he was no good for SpetsNaz. ..."
V. Suvorov, "Spetsnaz;the Story behind the Soviet SAS"

...No escape from Passchendaele .../ God Dethroned, "Passiondale"


(in reply to Chris21wen)
Post #: 15
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