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Does Automatic Convoy even work?

 
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Does Automatic Convoy even work? - 10/28/2015 2:26:41 AM   
Mudmag99

 

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I have it on and my islands never seem to gain Supply or Fuel... Is it broken? (Or more likely, what am I doing wrong!)
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RE: Does Automatic Convoy even work? - 10/28/2015 3:41:33 AM   
crsutton


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I used it a bit in my first campaign and it did work. The most important thing is that you have to designate ships for the purpose. Other than that I will have to refer you to the manual as I have not used it in years. It was OK for supplying small out of danger ports in the US half of the map. But in the end, I found it just as easy to set up the convoys manually. Better to use supply TFs with the "CS" mission status and shuttle it directly between major ports. It is pretty much a click and forget thing and works very well.

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RE: Does Automatic Convoy even work? - 10/28/2015 8:03:01 AM   
Chris21wen

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

I used it a bit in my first campaign and it did work. The most important thing is that you have to designate ships for the purpose. Other than that I will have to refer you to the manual as I have not used it in years. It was OK for supplying small out of danger ports in the US half of the map. But in the end, I found it just as easy to set up the convoys manually. Better to use supply TFs with the "CS" mission status and shuttle it directly between major ports. It is pretty much a click and forget thing and works very well.


I second that.

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RE: Does Automatic Convoy even work? - 10/28/2015 9:29:22 AM   
pmelheck1

 

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I echo all the above statements on CS convoys. I also don't use auto convoy just CS and once in a while check the damage on the ships.

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RE: Does Automatic Convoy even work? - 10/28/2015 10:45:13 AM   
HansBolter


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Another voice chiming to say that CS convoys are the way to go.

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RE: Does Automatic Convoy even work? - 10/28/2015 12:25:00 PM   
witpaemail

 

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Most old school players wouldnt trust the auto-convoy system. I for one have never even tried it (and I was a playtester I dont think any of us tried it - if memory serves it wasnt installed if I recall correcty, I could be wrong - Im old). Only problem with CS convoys is sometimes ships will bump into one another. While the damage may not be enough to detach the damaged ships from the TF, they can slow it down considerably.

< Message edited by witpaemail -- 10/28/2015 1:25:53 PM >

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RE: Does Automatic Convoy even work? - 10/28/2015 2:10:54 PM   
HansBolter


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quote:

ORIGINAL: witpaemail

Most old school players wouldnt trust the auto-convoy system. I for one have never even tried it (and I was a playtester I dont think any of us tried it - if memory serves it wasnt installed if I recall correcty, I could be wrong - Im old). Only problem with CS convoys is sometimes ships will bump into one another. While the damage may not be enough to detach the damaged ships from the TF, they can slow it down considerably.



A good reason why the admonition above to check them for damage occasionally makes good sense.

Any automated system needs attention now and then.

Take ACMs for instance. They function to maintain minefields while disbanded in the ports.
This makes them something the player has a tendency to deploy and forget about.
However, they burn fuel for the minefield maintenance effort, so forgetting about them for too long can lead to them stop functioning from being out of fuel.
Once every two weeks or so I make a habit of inspecting all ports with minefields and ACMs and hitting the 'refuel' ships in port button.

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RE: Does Automatic Convoy even work? - 10/28/2015 2:57:53 PM   
crsutton


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter


quote:

ORIGINAL: witpaemail

Most old school players wouldnt trust the auto-convoy system. I for one have never even tried it (and I was a playtester I dont think any of us tried it - if memory serves it wasnt installed if I recall correcty, I could be wrong - Im old). Only problem with CS convoys is sometimes ships will bump into one another. While the damage may not be enough to detach the damaged ships from the TF, they can slow it down considerably.



A good reason why the admonition above to check them for damage occasionally makes good sense.

Any automated system needs attention now and then.

Take ACMs for instance. They function to maintain minefields while disbanded in the ports.
This makes them something the player has a tendency to deploy and forget about.
However, they burn fuel for the minefield maintenance effort, so forgetting about them for too long can lead to them stop functioning from being out of fuel.
Once every two weeks or so I make a habit of inspecting all ports with minefields and ACMs and hitting the 'refuel' ships in port button.


It should be a practice that at the beginning of every turn you pull up the entire ship list on your toolbar. Then click on the flotation damage stat and all of your ships will be listed by the most damaged first. It just takes a minute to run through the list to make sure there are no new damaged ships and to direct those that are to safety. It will also tell you when a damaged ship is safely in port so you can then start repairs. Subs get damaged every turn, a ship might hit a mine or have a collision and you missed the report. So, do this every turn. A damaged ship should never be an obstacle to running a CS TF.


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RE: Does Automatic Convoy even work? - 10/28/2015 6:58:38 PM   
Dili

 

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Automatic convoy works okay between major ports or bases.

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RE: Does Automatic Convoy even work? - 10/28/2015 9:07:02 PM   
jcjordan

 

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I've started using it in my Allied vs IJ AI & it seems to work ok but seems to send way too many TK to out of the way bases that have no need for fuel & no requests for it either nor never will & only sends 1 supply ship at a time & seems like it only focuses repeatedly on the bigger ports that don't even need supply while the smaller out of the way bases that are calling for it never get it unless done manually. It also seems to put escorts in TF that don't need them but not in ones that do - logic seems to be on the escorts that the more dangerous the destination the less likely to have escort as the escorts are worth more points so can't risk them so in essence reverse logic by AI.

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RE: Does Automatic Convoy even work? - 10/28/2015 10:40:11 PM   
Numdydar

 

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I've used both CS and AC systems as Japan. I've not had any issues since the AC system (for Japan anyway) got fixed some patches back.

I basically put anything 12 knts and under in Osaka and let the AC system use those. While anything above 12 knts use in CS. Really helps to keep the micro management down

The real 'trick' with the AC system is using the toggle in the Base screen to have the base as part of the AC system or not. This way you can easily control what bases will be supplied by the AC system or not. So you can actually turn off bases where you do not want any AC ships to go. However most players don't do this with their bases so they think the AC system is 'broken'. When in fact is works really well.

Like so many other areas of the game, you get out of the AC system what you are willing to put into it. Just like pilots, ASW, etc.

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RE: Does Automatic Convoy even work? - 10/28/2015 11:43:13 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jcjordan

I've started using it in my Allied vs IJ AI & it seems to work ok but seems to send way too many TK to out of the way bases that have no need for fuel & no requests for it either nor never will & only sends 1 supply ship at a time & seems like it only focuses repeatedly on the bigger ports that don't even need supply while the smaller out of the way bases that are calling for it never get it unless done manually. It also seems to put escorts in TF that don't need them but not in ones that do - logic seems to be on the escorts that the more dangerous the destination the less likely to have escort as the escorts are worth more points so can't risk them so in essence reverse logic by AI.


The convoy system DOES send ships where there is demand. That's how it works and its biggest advantage over CS. CS sends and sends and sends until you stop it. If you don't notice it will overflow into spoilage ranges and your stuff will rot. You also put ships at risk of sub or other attack unnecessarily. Auto-convoy sends only the demanded number based on what is at the base or attached to it. Then it stops. There's a little lag as it doesn't forward predict that I have seen, but generally those smaller bases you don't want to hand service get their groceries. It's not meant to build piles or make hubs for hub and spoke systems. But for what it's designed to do it does it well, even better after Michael added capability, such as splitting the world into demand spheres so the proper Allied source feeds the base.

If you have bases in auto-demand that never get serviced you need to add ships to the pool. It can't send what it doesn't own. It also has no logic for "dangerous" routes. If the base is dangerous you shouldn't be using auto-convoy to feed it.

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RE: Does Automatic Convoy even work? - 10/29/2015 5:06:21 AM   
Alfred

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58


quote:

ORIGINAL: jcjordan

I've started using it in my Allied vs IJ AI & it seems to work ok but seems to send way too many TK to out of the way bases that have no need for fuel & no requests for it either nor never will & only sends 1 supply ship at a time & seems like it only focuses repeatedly on the bigger ports that don't even need supply while the smaller out of the way bases that are calling for it never get it unless done manually. It also seems to put escorts in TF that don't need them but not in ones that do - logic seems to be on the escorts that the more dangerous the destination the less likely to have escort as the escorts are worth more points so can't risk them so in essence reverse logic by AI.


The convoy system DOES send ships where there is demand. That's how it works and its biggest advantage over CS. CS sends and sends and sends until you stop it. If you don't notice it will overflow into spoilage ranges and your stuff will rot. You also put ships at risk of sub or other attack unnecessarily. Auto-convoy sends only the demanded number based on what is at the base or attached to it. Then it stops. There's a little lag as it doesn't forward predict that I have seen, but generally those smaller bases you don't want to hand service get their groceries. It's not meant to build piles or make hubs for hub and spoke systems. But for what it's designed to do it does it well, even better after Michael added capability, such as splitting the world into demand spheres so the proper Allied source feeds the base.

If you have bases in auto-demand that never get serviced you need to add ships to the pool. It can't send what it doesn't own. It also has no logic for "dangerous" routes. If the base is dangerous you shouldn't be using auto-convoy to feed it.


Bullwinkle is quite correct and invariably where there are problems they are human player created.

The entire automatic logistical system in the game is demand driven. No demand at location "x" for "y", then no "y" gets automatically moved there. It is therefore a combination of both creating the demand and having the means to satisfy that demand. Without the necessary ships dedicated to auto convoy operations it is impossible to fully meet any demand from non land connected locations.

It is quite wrong to state that some God forsaken outpost has no demand for fuel. Any port irrespective of size and even if it is more than a hundred hexes distant from the frontline, has a demand for fuel. If that port is on the auto convoy list and it's fuel depot is less than it's demand, it will get an auto convoy tanker visit.

Read my post in this thread

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3697364

for how demand for fuel is determined. The demand quantum is the aggregation of permanent and temporary demand. Players regularly fail to take into account how the code determines the permanent demand quantum.

Alfred

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RE: Does Automatic Convoy even work? - 10/29/2015 8:33:18 AM   
Chris21wen

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: witpaemail

Most old school players wouldnt trust the auto-convoy system. I for one have never even tried it (and I was a playtester I dont think any of us tried it - if memory serves it wasnt installed if I recall correcty, I could be wrong - Im old). Only problem with CS convoys is sometimes ships will bump into one another. While the damage may not be enough to detach the damaged ships from the TF, they can slow it down considerably.


I did try the auto system when the game first came out it just did not work how I wanted it too. I can't even remember exactly what the problem were or if damaged ships were dealt with.

In the CS system you do have to manually control damage but it's easy enough to do by checking them when they reach their home port.

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RE: Does Automatic Convoy even work? - 10/29/2015 11:21:37 AM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred


Read my post in this thread

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3697364

for how demand for fuel is determined. The demand quantum is the aggregation of permanent and temporary demand. Players regularly fail to take into account how the code determines the permanent demand quantum.

Alfred


Thanks, Alfred. I had forgotten the port level piece of it.

I tend to not put tankers in auto-convoy, or at least not until 1944. They're too rare and precious. I tend to carry most of my on-map fuel in xAKs until then. But I do use auto-convoy for supply and it reduces workload. A lot of Allied players have never played 1944-45 and don't understand how great that workload becomes.

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RE: Does Automatic Convoy even work? - 10/29/2015 12:04:17 PM   
PaxMondo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58


[...I do use auto-convoy for supply and it reduces workload. A lot of Allied players have never played 1944-45 and don't understand how great that workload becomes.

Or how easy it is to just overlook places like Juneau or Anchorage once you get them safe. Putting them on an auto-convoy is great.

Key difference for me is CS can allow you to build up a LARGE pool of supply at a location, auto-convoy will never do that. If you want/need a 1M supply depot, you cannot use auto convoy to get there.

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RE: Does Automatic Convoy even work? - 10/29/2015 4:50:56 PM   
Bullwinkle58


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58


Key difference for me is CS can allow you to build up a LARGE pool of supply at a location, auto-convoy will never do that. If you want/need a 1M supply depot, you cannot use auto convoy to get there.


Right. I said that above.

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