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RE: Patch 07 - Unofficial Public Beta & UI Suggestions - 1/2/2016 4:16:17 AM   
Admiral DadMan


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This may have been discussed before, I can't find it in a search. The ability to autoplay to a date or a specific number of turns would be a "nice to have".

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Post #: 91
RE: Patch 07 - Unofficial Public Beta & UI Suggestions - 1/14/2016 3:17:11 PM   
ny59giants


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Invasion shock attacks - we all know that any activity by your ships unloading across the beach triggers a shock attack at certain bases. Would it be reasonable, and hopefully possible, to NOT have them occur if you are just unloading supplies? I can understand if any troops or devices come across the beach.

< Message edited by ny59giants -- 1/14/2016 4:17:48 PM >


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Post #: 92
RE: Patch 07 - Unofficial Public Beta & UI Suggestions - 1/14/2016 3:44:49 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 24990
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From: Argleton
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

Invasion shock attacks - we all know that any activity by your ships unloading across the beach triggers a shock attack at certain bases. Would it be reasonable, and hopefully possible, to NOT have them occur if you are just unloading supplies? I can understand if any troops or devices come across the beach.

They never have for me. Has behavior changed in a more recent Beta? Using latest official for my PBM.

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Post #: 93
RE: Patch 07 - Unofficial Public Beta & UI Suggestions - 1/14/2016 4:03:00 PM   
RichardAckermann

 

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Joined: 12/4/2015
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I recently had a number of larger naval battles, and noticed sunken or sinking ships keep the animated smoke. With 10+ sunken ships, this slows my game down to a crawl and makes it, like, blocky.

Please remove the animation for eliminated ships. Since you can see the name and that it's gone, there should be no side effect except a speed up.

(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 94
RE: Patch 07 - Unofficial Public Beta & UI Suggestions - 1/14/2016 4:28:32 PM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9131
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From: Iowan in MD/DC
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quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs


quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

Invasion shock attacks - we all know that any activity by your ships unloading across the beach triggers a shock attack at certain bases. Would it be reasonable, and hopefully possible, to NOT have them occur if you are just unloading supplies? I can understand if any troops or devices come across the beach.

They never have for me. Has behavior changed in a more recent Beta? Using latest official for my PBM.


Just unloading supplies will not trigger another shock attack. It never has for me. Unloading more troops, however...

(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 95
RE: Patch 07 - Unofficial Public Beta & UI Suggestions - 1/14/2016 4:29:10 PM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9131
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From: Iowan in MD/DC
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RichardAckermann

I recently had a number of larger naval battles, and noticed sunken or sinking ships keep the animated smoke. With 10+ sunken ships, this slows my game down to a crawl and makes it, like, blocky.

Please remove the animation for eliminated ships. Since you can see the name and that it's gone, there should be no side effect except a speed up.


I don't have this problem.

What are your system specifications? Namely, your graphics card?

What command line switches are you using on your WITPAE shortcut?


EDIT: I don't have this problem and I play about half my turns on a Dell "business" machine that has onboard Intel graphics. About as low on the totem pole as you can go these days. Another reason I suspect it's actually your settings.

< Message edited by Lokasenna -- 1/14/2016 5:30:03 PM >

(in reply to RichardAckermann)
Post #: 96
RE: Patch 07 - Unofficial Public Beta & UI Suggestions - 1/14/2016 4:38:24 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 24990
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

quote:

ORIGINAL: RichardAckermann

I recently had a number of larger naval battles, and noticed sunken or sinking ships keep the animated smoke. With 10+ sunken ships, this slows my game down to a crawl and makes it, like, blocky.

Please remove the animation for eliminated ships. Since you can see the name and that it's gone, there should be no side effect except a speed up.


I don't have this problem.

What are your system specifications? Namely, your graphics card?

What command line switches are you using on your WITPAE shortcut?


EDIT: I don't have this problem and I play about half my turns on a Dell "business" machine that has onboard Intel graphics. About as low on the totem pole as you can go these days. Another reason I suspect it's actually your settings.

I do see this happen frequently, but I regard it as a non-issue. Think of it as oil and other debris burning on the water. For all I know it might be intentional.

< Message edited by witpqs -- 1/14/2016 8:00:50 PM >


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RE: Patch 07 - Unofficial Public Beta & UI Suggestions - 1/14/2016 4:42:35 PM   
Admiral DadMan


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From: A Lion uses all its might to catch a Rabbit
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

quote:

ORIGINAL: RichardAckermann

I recently had a number of larger naval battles, and noticed sunken or sinking ships keep the animated smoke. With 10+ sunken ships, this slows my game down to a crawl and makes it, like, blocky.

Please remove the animation for eliminated ships. Since you can see the name and that it's gone, there should be no side effect except a speed up.


I don't have this problem.

What are your system specifications? Namely, your graphics card?

What command line switches are you using on your WITPAE shortcut?


EDIT: I don't have this problem and I play about half my turns on a Dell "business" machine that has onboard Intel graphics. About as low on the totem pole as you can go these days. Another reason I suspect it's actually your settings.

And I'd look at your in-game NAVAL vs NAVAL delay setting. Also your MESSAGE delay setting.

_____________________________

Scenario 127: "Scraps of Paper"
(\../)
(O.o)
(> <)

CVB Langley:

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Post #: 98
RE: Patch 07 - Unofficial Public Beta & UI Suggestions - 1/15/2016 8:12:49 AM   
RichardAckermann

 

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I use a computer that was put on the Junkyard in 2002. Think it's using a Gforce 128 MB card.
Rest of stuff of same age. Win 2K OS.

Switch: -archive
Delay was 1 second the last time I looked at it.

Everything is fine and smooth with 3 to 5 smoke anims, but then it's going slow and seems to skip frames in the animation.

(in reply to Admiral DadMan)
Post #: 99
RE: Patch 07 - Unofficial Public Beta & UI Suggestions - 1/15/2016 11:56:27 AM   
michaelm75au


Posts: 13070
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From: Melbourne, Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RichardAckermann

I recently had a number of larger naval battles, and noticed sunken or sinking ships keep the animated smoke. With 10+ sunken ships, this slows my game down to a crawl and makes it, like, blocky.

Please remove the animation for eliminated ships. Since you can see the name and that it's gone, there should be no side effect except a speed up.

Hitting space or ESC will cause the animation to speed up if you not interested in the blow-by-blow action.

_____________________________

Michael

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Post #: 100
RE: Patch 07 - Unofficial Public Beta & UI Suggestions - 1/15/2016 1:01:03 PM   
BBfanboy


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That delay sounds like the infamous Direct X calls getting stuck (see Wdolson's postings on this in the Win10 thread) which IIRC is related to having multiple processors. You could try the -Single processor switch, specifying 2 as the processor to use (1 is tied up by the O/S). See Wdolson's posts for exact switch info.

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Post #: 101
RE: Patch 07 - Unofficial Public Beta & UI Suggestions - 1/15/2016 2:44:18 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 24990
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From: Argleton
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelm


quote:

ORIGINAL: RichardAckermann

I recently had a number of larger naval battles, and noticed sunken or sinking ships keep the animated smoke. With 10+ sunken ships, this slows my game down to a crawl and makes it, like, blocky.

Please remove the animation for eliminated ships. Since you can see the name and that it's gone, there should be no side effect except a speed up.

Hitting space or ESC will cause the animation to speed up if you not interested in the blow-by-blow action.

I think it's the 'z' key, IIRC space bar does not speed it up.

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Post #: 102
RE: Patch 07 - Unofficial Public Beta & UI Suggestions - 1/15/2016 4:21:04 PM   
BillBrown


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For me, the space bar takes it out of hyper speed mode.

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Post #: 103
RE: Patch 07 - Unofficial Public Beta & UI Suggestions - 1/15/2016 4:33:38 PM   
ny59giants


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The "Esc" button works fine for me. Don't need to see all the action, so I like to fast forward through some of it.

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RE: Patch 07 - Unofficial Public Beta & UI Suggestions - 1/15/2016 4:40:20 PM   
witpqs


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When I did some testing recently what I found was that the space bar did not work but the z key did work (as the space bar was said to work). The Esc key also worked, but is thought to cause or contribute to sync bug type problems.

I actually like the z key better than the space bar as the space bar is a bit clunky for the purpose.

Also the control-z key works but its function is different depending on whether PBM or AI.

I ran those tests on latest official + (at the time) latest Beta, on both Windows 7 and Windows 10. Different brands of computers, one a desktop the other a laptop.

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Post #: 105
RE: Patch 07 - Unofficial Public Beta & UI Suggestions - 1/15/2016 5:44:28 PM   
Lokasenna


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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

That delay sounds like the infamous Direct X calls getting stuck (see Wdolson's postings on this in the Win10 thread) which IIRC is related to having multiple processors. You could try the -Single processor switch, specifying 2 as the processor to use (1 is tied up by the O/S). See Wdolson's posts for exact switch info.


With a 2002 computer, he doesn't have multiple cores.

I think the problem is that he is running on hardware that came out 2-3 years before WITP, and 7 years before AE.

What sticks out to me is that the graphics card only has 128MB of video memory. I'd bet almost anything that is what is causing the lag.

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 106
RE: Patch 07 - Unofficial Public Beta & UI Suggestions - 1/16/2016 2:55:22 AM   
wdolson

 

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From: Near Portland, OR
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

That delay sounds like the infamous Direct X calls getting stuck (see Wdolson's postings on this in the Win10 thread) which IIRC is related to having multiple processors. You could try the -Single processor switch, specifying 2 as the processor to use (1 is tied up by the O/S). See Wdolson's posts for exact switch info.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna
With a 2002 computer, he doesn't have multiple cores.

I think the problem is that he is running on hardware that came out 2-3 years before WITP, and 7 years before AE.

What sticks out to me is that the graphics card only has 128MB of video memory. I'd bet almost anything that is what is causing the lag.


I'm sure it's not the video card. The game's graphics don't put much stress on any graphics card from the 2002 era. The core graphics haven't changed much since Uncommon Valor was released.

The only thing that might stress a 2002 vintage computer is the RAM. One of the beta testers got the game to run on a 512 MB RAM Win 98 machine, but 1 GB is really the minimum, and I would really recommend 4 GB on a 32 bit Windows computer.

Bill

_____________________________

WitP AE - Test team lead, programmer

(in reply to Lokasenna)
Post #: 107
RE: Patch 07 - Unofficial Public Beta & UI Suggestions - 1/16/2016 3:04:22 AM   
michaelm75au


Posts: 13070
Joined: 5/5/2001
From: Melbourne, Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs


quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelm


quote:

ORIGINAL: RichardAckermann

I recently had a number of larger naval battles, and noticed sunken or sinking ships keep the animated smoke. With 10+ sunken ships, this slows my game down to a crawl and makes it, like, blocky.

Please remove the animation for eliminated ships. Since you can see the name and that it's gone, there should be no side effect except a speed up.

Hitting space or ESC will cause the animation to speed up if you not interested in the blow-by-blow action.

I think it's the 'z' key, IIRC space bar does not speed it up.

See even I get confused with all the options

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Michael

(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 108
RE: Patch 07 - Unofficial Public Beta & UI Suggestions - 1/16/2016 3:11:23 AM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 15431
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelm


quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs


quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelm


quote:

ORIGINAL: RichardAckermann

I recently had a number of larger naval battles, and noticed sunken or sinking ships keep the animated smoke. With 10+ sunken ships, this slows my game down to a crawl and makes it, like, blocky.

Please remove the animation for eliminated ships. Since you can see the name and that it's gone, there should be no side effect except a speed up.

Hitting space or ESC will cause the animation to speed up if you not interested in the blow-by-blow action.

I think it's the 'z' key, IIRC space bar does not speed it up.

See even I get confused with all the options

I just ran a turn and used the z key by itself when the Coastwatcher Search step came up. No change to the slow stepping through each base.
So I tried CTRL-z and everything flew by, including things I wanted to see in animation.
I tried to stop it with the ESC key but no dice. It did stop to show me the Combat Reports but continued at breakneck speed to the end of the turn otherwise.
Oh well - I didn't get any naval combats other than bombardments this turn so I can live with it.

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(in reply to michaelm75au)
Post #: 109
RE: Patch 07 - Unofficial Public Beta & UI Suggestions - 1/16/2016 3:22:14 AM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9131
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From: Iowan in MD/DC
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelm


quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs


quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelm


quote:

ORIGINAL: RichardAckermann

I recently had a number of larger naval battles, and noticed sunken or sinking ships keep the animated smoke. With 10+ sunken ships, this slows my game down to a crawl and makes it, like, blocky.

Please remove the animation for eliminated ships. Since you can see the name and that it's gone, there should be no side effect except a speed up.

Hitting space or ESC will cause the animation to speed up if you not interested in the blow-by-blow action.

I think it's the 'z' key, IIRC space bar does not speed it up.

See even I get confused with all the options

I just ran a turn and used the z key by itself when the Coastwatcher Search step came up. No change to the slow stepping through each base.
So I tried CTRL-z and everything flew by, including things I wanted to see in animation.
I tried to stop it with the ESC key but no dice. It did stop to show me the Combat Reports but continued at breakneck speed to the end of the turn otherwise.
Oh well - I didn't get any naval combats other than bombardments this turn so I can live with it.


Ctrl-Z is un-undo-able (you can't cancel it later). Skips through everything.

Esc you can undo by later pressing Ctrl-F (I believe), or simply by clicking within the game window. I do it all the time - skip through messages, then when it comes time for air search I click so that I get my standard 0.5 second delay on the air search phase messages.

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 110
RE: Patch 07 - Unofficial Public Beta & UI Suggestions - 1/16/2016 3:54:17 AM   
witpqs


Posts: 24990
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From: Argleton
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'z' toggles fast/slow during a combat animation or between combat animations. The effect is cancelled at the end of that combat animation or the beginning of the next one.

'control-z' works differently depending on...

AI
- Toggles fast/slow messages outside combat animations.
- Toggles fast/slow messages inside combat animations.

PBM
- Toggles fast/slow messages outside combat animations.

With 'control-z' the effect is not cancelled at the end of a combat animation.

Here is a table of what I tested and found. Hopefully it is formatted to make sense.
quote:


A = Against AI
P = PBM
c-z = control-z
z = z
sb = space bar
"main messages" means messages outside of combat animations.
"animation messages" means messages during combat animations.
Y = Yes
N = No

Tested during resolution/replay, a mixture of Japan and Allies, no differences noted between sides.

A P
= =
Y Y c-z toggles main messages delay on/off.
Y N c-z toggles animation messages delay on/off.
Y Y z toggles main and animation messages delay on/off but only until the next animation begin/end.
Y - sb restores animation messages delay turned off by c-z.
N N sb restores animation messages delay turned off by z.


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Post #: 111
RE: Patch 07 - Unofficial Public Beta & UI Suggestions - 1/16/2016 6:18:19 AM   
Reg


Posts: 2765
Joined: 5/26/2000
From: Victoria, Australia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: wdolson

The only thing that might stress a 2002 vintage computer is the RAM. One of the beta testers got the game to run on a 512 MB RAM Win 98 machine, but 1 GB is really the minimum, and I would really recommend 4 GB on a 32 bit Windows computer.

Bill


I can assure you WITP-AE runs quite happily on a Win98, Pentium III, 256MB memory PC with a 16MB video card.

However, at approx 20mins to process a turn it is nigh on unplayable.

Throwing in a couple of second hand RAM sticks to bring the total to 768MB improved things markedly with turn times down to 5 mins or so which confirms RAM as the chief bottleneck.

But just because you can doesn't mean you should....


< Message edited by Reg -- 1/16/2016 7:21:59 AM >


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Post #: 112
RE: Patch 07 - Unofficial Public Beta & UI Suggestions - 1/16/2016 8:41:06 AM   
RichardAckermann

 

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Turn proccessing does take around 10 to 12 minutes each (with skipping anims), I have 512 MB RAM.
I will try some of the switches at the next opportunity. Thanks for all the advice. I did not read much on them in the win 8 to 10 threads, since I only have Win 2K. Did not seem to be relevant for me.

(in reply to Reg)
Post #: 113
RE: Patch 07 - Unofficial Public Beta & UI Suggestions - 1/16/2016 8:57:09 AM   
wdolson

 

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The slow down problems have some relation to OS, but it's more hardware than anything else. If you can upgrade your memory, I'd recommend it. Crucial has a memory selection tool, you can enter information on your system, but it can scan your system too if you want:
http://www.crucial.com/usa/en/systemscanner

Crucial is one of the most reliable brands out there. Additionally I've never had a problem with their recommendations, and I've installed a lot of memory. For an older system, the memory is probably going to be very cheap. You should be able to get at least to 2 GB, and most motherboards of that vintage could go to 4 GB. If the system doesn't have enough RAM, it swaps stuff out to disk which is a lot slower than RAM. If you have enough RAM to hold the entire program at once, you won't have to swap out to disk.

AE is very memory intensive, if I remember correctly, it takes about 350 MB to 400 MB of RAM. The OS also takes some memory, so 512 MB is marginal.

We were up to close to 1 GB of RAM at one point, we had to unload a bunch of images from memory and just load them as needed, but a lot of the art needs to remain in memory all the time. The database also needs to reside in memory and it takes up a lot of RAM. This is a very data intensive game.

Bill

_____________________________

WitP AE - Test team lead, programmer

(in reply to RichardAckermann)
Post #: 114
RE: Patch 07 - Unofficial Public Beta & UI Suggestions - 1/16/2016 9:04:40 AM   
RichardAckermann

 

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Thanks. I will take a look at it. I noticed my HD is quite loud with this game.

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Post #: 115
RE: Patch 07 - Unofficial Public Beta & UI Suggestions - 1/16/2016 1:24:40 PM   
BBfanboy


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From: Winnipeg, MB
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quote:

ORIGINAL: RichardAckermann

Thanks. I will take a look at it. I noticed my HD is quite loud with this game.

You can adjust the sound levels in the Preferences screen - second or third button from the left at the top of the screen.

EDIT: - D'oh. I read HD to mean high def sound.
When a hard drive gets that noisy it could be nearing failure. Backup and consider replacing. HDs are cheap and fairly easy to replace, except for the reinstallation of software part!

< Message edited by BBfanboy -- 1/16/2016 5:48:39 PM >


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Post #: 116
RE: Patch 07 - Unofficial Public Beta & UI Suggestions - 1/16/2016 1:44:33 PM   
BillBrown


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I got this from the store page:

Game Requirements
Windows 98SE / 2000 / XP / Vista / 7 / 8 / 10
CPU: 1.0 Ghz minimum, 2.0 Ghz recommended
Video/Graphics: 128M minimum, 256M recommended
RAM: 512MB minimum, 1GB recommended
1 GB free Hard Disc space
DirectX version: 9.0 or later
Direct X compatible Soundcard
8x CD-ROM

It would seem that you barely meet the minimums. The game will run, but not
very optimally.

The loud HD is most likely the machine swapping memory to disk and back.
That is what will happen if you do not have enough RAM for the program
to do something.

My long range diagnosis is that you will need more RAM to speed things up.


< Message edited by BillBrown -- 1/16/2016 2:48:20 PM >

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 117
RE: Patch 07 - Unofficial Public Beta & UI Suggestions - 1/16/2016 3:27:13 PM   
Yaab


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I use a Lenovo laptop bought in 2010. One thing I have noticed is that a turn is processed faster when the game runs in windowed mode ( -w switch), all other settings being equal.

(in reply to BillBrown)
Post #: 118
RE: Patch 07 - Unofficial Public Beta & UI Suggestions - 1/16/2016 9:47:40 PM   
Reg


Posts: 2765
Joined: 5/26/2000
From: Victoria, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RichardAckermann

Thanks. I will take a look at it. I noticed my HD is quite loud with this game.


It is doing a lot of page swapping with virtual memory on your HD. You definitely need more RAM.

(It will make your HD drive last longer too.....)


Edit: BillBrown is right on the money!!




< Message edited by Reg -- 1/16/2016 11:21:20 PM >


_____________________________

Cheers,
Reg.

(One day I will learn to spell - or check before posting....)
Uh oh, Firefox has a spell checker!! What excuse can I use now!!!

(in reply to RichardAckermann)
Post #: 119
RE: Patch 07 - Unofficial Public Beta & UI Suggestions - 1/17/2016 4:44:57 AM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9131
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: wdolson

The slow down problems have some relation to OS, but it's more hardware than anything else. If you can upgrade your memory, I'd recommend it. Crucial has a memory selection tool, you can enter information on your system, but it can scan your system too if you want:
http://www.crucial.com/usa/en/systemscanner

Crucial is one of the most reliable brands out there. Additionally I've never had a problem with their recommendations, and I've installed a lot of memory. For an older system, the memory is probably going to be very cheap. You should be able to get at least to 2 GB, and most motherboards of that vintage could go to 4 GB. If the system doesn't have enough RAM, it swaps stuff out to disk which is a lot slower than RAM. If you have enough RAM to hold the entire program at once, you won't have to swap out to disk.

AE is very memory intensive, if I remember correctly, it takes about 350 MB to 400 MB of RAM. The OS also takes some memory, so 512 MB is marginal.

We were up to close to 1 GB of RAM at one point, we had to unload a bunch of images from memory and just load them as needed, but a lot of the art needs to remain in memory all the time. The database also needs to reside in memory and it takes up a lot of RAM. This is a very data intensive game.

Bill


I've seen mine go over 600MB.... but it's not an issue for me.


quote:

ORIGINAL: RichardAckermann

Thanks. I will take a look at it. I noticed my HD is quite loud with this game.


If you mean your actual disk, then this would imply to me that your OS is accessing the HDD a lot in order to do one of two things: 1) load/unload/reload items for the game as it needs them, or 2) creating and using a large page file. A page file is essentially HDD space that is used as RAM. It is highly inefficient compared to actual RAM. I'm not sure if Win2K does this - I only used that OS for about six months back in 2002.

If by HD you mean your computer (fans and such, not disk "clicking" and "whirring"), then it would say to me that the machine is struggling overall. RAM almost always helps with this.

(in reply to wdolson)
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