Matrix Games Forums

Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

When are stacking penalties applied to a hex?

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> When are stacking penalties applied to a hex? Page: [1]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
When are stacking penalties applied to a hex? - 10/20/2015 1:15:39 AM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9233
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline
I'm researching an issue and am curious if anyone knows the answer to this question. I see hints of the answer in my look at my data points, but want to know if anyone can tell me for sure.

The penalties for overstacking a hex, AFAIK, are:
-Increased supply usage
-Increased disruption
-Increased fatigue
-Decreased morale? Not sure on this one.

But when during each "combat day" (each day of the replay) are these penalties applied or accrued? Is it at the beginning of the turn? Is it before the LCU move phase? After the LCU move phase (and therefore just prior to combat)? Is it after the land combat phase?

Or is it throughout the day (multiple phases)?
Post #: 1
RE: When are stacking penalties applied to a hex? - 10/20/2015 1:45:16 AM   
witpqs


Posts: 25774
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline
For sure the supply penalty is after land combat.

I am guessing that all of them are after land combat, but not certain of it.

_____________________________


(in reply to Lokasenna)
Post #: 2
RE: When are stacking penalties applied to a hex? - 10/20/2015 2:53:17 AM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9233
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

For sure the supply penalty is after land combat.

I am guessing that all of them are after land combat, but not certain of it.


How sure "for sure"? Are there any threads that discuss it? When I searched for overstacking, I got a ton of airfield-related results but none that seemed to discuss this.

(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 3
RE: When are stacking penalties applied to a hex? - 10/20/2015 4:50:08 AM   
witpqs


Posts: 25774
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna


quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

For sure the supply penalty is after land combat.

I am guessing that all of them are after land combat, but not certain of it.


How sure "for sure"? Are there any threads that discuss it? When I searched for overstacking, I got a ton of airfield-related results but none that seemed to discuss this.

Developer(s) stated that it is applied after land combat. Part of the context of the discussion was island invasions - whatever supply you unload (or fly in) that turn is NOT subject to the penalty until after combat. But after combat (if you are greatly over stacked) your supply dump will get a big dent in it!

_____________________________


(in reply to Lokasenna)
Post #: 4
RE: When are stacking penalties applied to a hex? - 10/20/2015 4:57:07 AM   
crsutton


Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline
Supply is the only penalty as far as I know.

_____________________________

I am the Holy Roman Emperor and am above grammar.

Sigismund of Luxemburg

(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 5
RE: When are stacking penalties applied to a hex? - 10/20/2015 6:06:02 AM   
witpqs


Posts: 25774
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

Supply is the only penalty as far as I know.

That was overturned by further developer investigation inside the code. Fatigue and disruption for sure, I forget whether morale also.

_____________________________


(in reply to crsutton)
Post #: 6
RE: When are stacking penalties applied to a hex? - 10/20/2015 8:16:56 AM   
BattleMoose

 

Posts: 231
Joined: 2/17/2014
Status: offline
Just from my observations, it seems that over stacked enemies take much more casualties from land, air and naval bombardment as well. I always thought the supply penalties were always applied, like each turn?

(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 7
RE: When are stacking penalties applied to a hex? - 10/20/2015 11:28:12 AM   
Trugrit


Posts: 879
Joined: 7/14/2014
From: North Carolina
Status: offline

In the Manual Section 8.9 - Page 202
Penalties include:
1 - 5 Fatigue and Disruption to ALL units if base is overstacked.
Supply usage increases for every 10% over the stacking limit; supply usage increases by an additional 20% UNCAPPED for both sides (e.g. if an atoll has a 6,000 man limit and has 12,000 man garrison, supply usage will increase from 100% to 300% i.e. the base supply for 10,000 men plus a special wastage allowance of 200% of normal supply.)

Michaelm provides a formula in post #4
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3178009

The manual and Michaelm do not say what phase this check is done.
My guess is that the penalty is calculated during the Supply Needs Calculation phase every turn.
This phase occurs after ground movement but before ground combat.

Also, supply needs are calculated twice per turn and I don’t know when the second check is done
But I would guess that the supply penalty will only occur once per turn with each 10% increase
Over the stack limit.

(in reply to Lokasenna)
Post #: 8
RE: When are stacking penalties applied to a hex? - 10/20/2015 2:07:13 PM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9233
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Trugrit


In the Manual Section 8.9 - Page 202
Penalties include:
1 - 5 Fatigue and Disruption to ALL units if base is overstacked.
Supply usage increases for every 10% over the stacking limit; supply usage increases by an additional 20% UNCAPPED for both sides (e.g. if an atoll has a 6,000 man limit and has 12,000 man garrison, supply usage will increase from 100% to 300% i.e. the base supply for 10,000 men plus a special wastage allowance of 200% of normal supply.)

Michaelm provides a formula in post #4
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3178009

The manual and Michaelm do not say what phase this check is done.
My guess is that the penalty is calculated during the Supply Needs Calculation phase every turn.
This phase occurs after ground movement but before ground combat.


Also, supply needs are calculated twice per turn and I don’t know when the second check is done
But I would guess that the supply penalty will only occur once per turn with each 10% increase
Over the stack limit.



Hrm, that's a good guess, and matches up with what I had thought from looking at some things.

So fatigue and disruption get bumped up by a random of 1 to 5 each turn if overstacked? That's actually not that much of a penalty, at least on the first turn... if indeed it works that way.

(in reply to Trugrit)
Post #: 9
RE: When are stacking penalties applied to a hex? - 10/20/2015 2:08:01 PM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9233
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna


quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

For sure the supply penalty is after land combat.

I am guessing that all of them are after land combat, but not certain of it.


How sure "for sure"? Are there any threads that discuss it? When I searched for overstacking, I got a ton of airfield-related results but none that seemed to discuss this.

Developer(s) stated that it is applied after land combat. Part of the context of the discussion was island invasions - whatever supply you unload (or fly in) that turn is NOT subject to the penalty until after combat. But after combat (if you are greatly over stacked) your supply dump will get a big dent in it!


I'm going to try to find this thread, but any chance you remember when it happened/who posted?

(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 10
RE: When are stacking penalties applied to a hex? - 10/20/2015 3:47:52 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 25774
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna


quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna


quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

For sure the supply penalty is after land combat.

I am guessing that all of them are after land combat, but not certain of it.


How sure "for sure"? Are there any threads that discuss it? When I searched for overstacking, I got a ton of airfield-related results but none that seemed to discuss this.

Developer(s) stated that it is applied after land combat. Part of the context of the discussion was island invasions - whatever supply you unload (or fly in) that turn is NOT subject to the penalty until after combat. But after combat (if you are greatly over stacked) your supply dump will get a big dent in it!


I'm going to try to find this thread, but any chance you remember when it happened/who posted?

The first time goes waaaaaaaay back when I ran some tests on over stacking on atolls/islands several years ago (I think that was before the every-hex stacking limit option was introduced). JWE for sure, maybe others. Very definite about the supply penalty being after ground combat. Otherwise the model for atoll & small island invasions would not have worked as well right from 2004 with WITP introduction.

_____________________________


(in reply to Lokasenna)
Post #: 11
RE: When are stacking penalties applied to a hex? - 10/20/2015 4:04:33 PM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9233
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna


quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna


quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

For sure the supply penalty is after land combat.

I am guessing that all of them are after land combat, but not certain of it.


How sure "for sure"? Are there any threads that discuss it? When I searched for overstacking, I got a ton of airfield-related results but none that seemed to discuss this.

Developer(s) stated that it is applied after land combat. Part of the context of the discussion was island invasions - whatever supply you unload (or fly in) that turn is NOT subject to the penalty until after combat. But after combat (if you are greatly over stacked) your supply dump will get a big dent in it!


I'm going to try to find this thread, but any chance you remember when it happened/who posted?

The first time goes waaaaaaaay back when I ran some tests on over stacking on atolls/islands several years ago (I think that was before the every-hex stacking limit option was introduced). JWE for sure, maybe others. Very definite about the supply penalty being after ground combat. Otherwise the model for atoll & small island invasions would not have worked as well right from 2004 with WITP introduction.


Makes sense about supply, if in fact it is working that way (which seems to be the intent). I'm really trying to figure out when the disruption/fatigue penalties are applied, so will try to find those posts to see if they say anything. It's going to be an afternoon of Google, I think.

(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 12
RE: When are stacking penalties applied to a hex? - 10/20/2015 8:47:03 PM   
Capt Hornblower


Posts: 240
Joined: 10/29/2010
From: Massachusetts, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna


quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna


quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

For sure the supply penalty is after land combat.

I am guessing that all of them are after land combat, but not certain of it.


How sure "for sure"? Are there any threads that discuss it? When I searched for overstacking, I got a ton of airfield-related results but none that seemed to discuss this.

Developer(s) stated that it is applied after land combat. Part of the context of the discussion was island invasions - whatever supply you unload (or fly in) that turn is NOT subject to the penalty until after combat. But after combat (if you are greatly over stacked) your supply dump will get a big dent in it!


I'm going to try to find this thread, but any chance you remember when it happened/who posted?

The first time goes waaaaaaaay back when I ran some tests on over stacking on atolls/islands several years ago (I think that was before the every-hex stacking limit option was introduced). JWE for sure, maybe others. Very definite about the supply penalty being after ground combat. Otherwise the model for atoll & small island invasions would not have worked as well right from 2004 with WITP introduction.


I remind all that the institution of a stacking limit for all hexes applies only to beta implementations and DOES NOT apply to stock (with OFFICIAL updates) installations of WITP:AE.

(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 13
RE: When are stacking penalties applied to a hex? - 10/20/2015 9:34:09 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 25774
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Capt Hornblower


quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna


quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna


quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

For sure the supply penalty is after land combat.

I am guessing that all of them are after land combat, but not certain of it.


How sure "for sure"? Are there any threads that discuss it? When I searched for overstacking, I got a ton of airfield-related results but none that seemed to discuss this.

Developer(s) stated that it is applied after land combat. Part of the context of the discussion was island invasions - whatever supply you unload (or fly in) that turn is NOT subject to the penalty until after combat. But after combat (if you are greatly over stacked) your supply dump will get a big dent in it!


I'm going to try to find this thread, but any chance you remember when it happened/who posted?

The first time goes waaaaaaaay back when I ran some tests on over stacking on atolls/islands several years ago (I think that was before the every-hex stacking limit option was introduced). JWE for sure, maybe others. Very definite about the supply penalty being after ground combat. Otherwise the model for atoll & small island invasions would not have worked as well right from 2004 with WITP introduction.


I remind all that the institution of a stacking limit for all hexes applies only to beta implementations and DOES NOT apply to stock (with OFFICIAL updates) installations of WITP:AE.

It is not Beta, it is included in the official release. It is optional. You must use the appropriate set of pwhex (aka map data) files. There is a set of such pwhex files for the stock map.

_____________________________


(in reply to Capt Hornblower)
Post #: 14
RE: When are stacking penalties applied to a hex? - 10/20/2015 10:42:53 PM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9233
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline
Even in stock, there are hexes that have stacking limits. Namely, islands.

(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 15
RE: When are stacking penalties applied to a hex? - 10/20/2015 11:13:15 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 25774
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

Even in stock, there are hexes that have stacking limits. Namely, islands.

Yes, although the point I am trying to make is that the code which honors stacking limits in any hex is in the official release, not just the Beta. But you do need to use a pwhex file set that has those stacking limits specified, hence it is still optional. The atolls and islands that you point out always have (the default) stacking limits based upon their size when not using the optional stacking limits (which will override the defaults).

_____________________________


(in reply to Lokasenna)
Post #: 16
RE: When are stacking penalties applied to a hex? - 10/21/2015 1:32:05 AM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9233
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

Even in stock, there are hexes that have stacking limits. Namely, islands.

Yes, although the point I am trying to make is that the code which honors stacking limits in any hex is in the official release, not just the Beta. But you do need to use a pwhex file set that has those stacking limits specified, hence it is still optional. The atolls and islands that you point out always have (the default) stacking limits based upon their size when not using the optional stacking limits (which will override the defaults).


I just found JWE's comment about Michael inserting a switch to make the island size be given priority over PWHEX data stacking limits. Still haven't found a comment on when exactly they are applied, but I have found some good info so far.

(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 17
RE: When are stacking penalties applied to a hex? - 10/21/2015 2:27:37 AM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs


quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

Supply is the only penalty as far as I know.

That was overturned by further developer investigation inside the code. Fatigue and disruption for sure, I forget whether morale also.

Morale falls if fatigue is not addressed.

_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 18
RE: When are stacking penalties applied to a hex? - 10/21/2015 5:19:04 AM   
witpqs


Posts: 25774
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna


quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

Even in stock, there are hexes that have stacking limits. Namely, islands.

Yes, although the point I am trying to make is that the code which honors stacking limits in any hex is in the official release, not just the Beta. But you do need to use a pwhex file set that has those stacking limits specified, hence it is still optional. The atolls and islands that you point out always have (the default) stacking limits based upon their size when not using the optional stacking limits (which will override the defaults).


I just found JWE's comment about Michael inserting a switch to make the island size be given priority over PWHEX data stacking limits. Still haven't found a comment on when exactly they are applied, but I have found some good info so far.

My current 1x1 PBM (with the AAR) started in late November/early December 2011 and we used stacking limits with the then latest Beta release from the beginning. I am pretty sure that the next official release after that date had the stacking limits for every hex code included (checks the pwhex file set to see if it is there, uses it if so, uses the old method if not).

_____________________________


(in reply to Lokasenna)
Post #: 19
RE: When are stacking penalties applied to a hex? - 10/21/2015 1:55:55 PM   
Alfred

 

Posts: 6614
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline
Stacking limits outside of island sizes are not sui generis.  They impact just like everything else referred to in s.3.0, 15.0 and 15.1 of the manual.

There are several factors which are taken into account in estimating how much supply a LCU will need.  The number of "shots" fired in combat will increase the supply determination.  If the hex has a stacking limit the consumption formula provided by michaelm is another discrete variable which is taken into account in the estimate.  The repairing and replacement of devices is another variable.

All the relevant variables for supply consumption and fatigue are taken into account in the "Supply Operations" phase which is detailed in the logistics chapter of the manual.  This is after combat has occurred and any malus which results (for example there being insufficient supply on hand) remains until the next "Supply Operations" phase which follows the next land combat phase.

Alfred

(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 20
RE: When are stacking penalties applied to a hex? - 10/21/2015 3:34:11 PM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9233
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

Stacking limits outside of island sizes are not sui generis.  They impact just like everything else referred to in s.3.0, 15.0 and 15.1 of the manual.

There are several factors which are taken into account in estimating how much supply a LCU will need.  The number of "shots" fired in combat will increase the supply determination.  If the hex has a stacking limit the consumption formula provided by michaelm is another discrete variable which is taken into account in the estimate.  The repairing and replacement of devices is another variable.

All the relevant variables for supply consumption and fatigue are taken into account in the "Supply Operations" phase which is detailed in the logistics chapter of the manual.  This is after combat has occurred and any malus which results (for example there being insufficient supply on hand) remains until the next "Supply Operations" phase which follows the next land combat phase.

Alfred


Digressing just a little bit, but the bolded part... even if supply is dropped to the hex by air or amphibious TF? It's been a while since this sort of situation has occurred in my games, but I had thought that dropping supply via plane or ship into a hex that wasn't a friendly base meant that the supply went directly into the organic supply of the unit(s) in the hex.

Now, the underlined part: when you say "all the relevant variables for supply consumption and fatigue", would stacking penalties be taken into account at this point as well?

(in reply to Alfred)
Post #: 21
RE: When are stacking penalties applied to a hex? - 10/21/2015 5:00:17 PM   
Alfred

 

Posts: 6614
Joined: 9/28/2006
Status: offline
1.  Yes, when you do not own the base (or there isn't a base at all) supply goes to the LCUs themselves but there is a limit to their organic holding capacity.

(a) Air dropped supply is conducted during the "supply operations" phase which is only conducted during daylight and after combat.

(b) Amphibious landings see the troops landing with their organic supply and any surplus supply carried on the vessels gets distributed after combat when the "supply operations" phase is run.  There was a bug a long time ago squashed by michaelm where an invading LCU could hoard supply above its "required amount + 10" and by doing so prevent the other invading LCUs from getting any top up supply.

2.  It isn't really a stacking penalty per se.  Look at the michaelm formula which someone else provided earlier in the thread and you will see that all LCU have an x0.02 multiplied against the stacking result of the hex.  That stacking result may be either negative or positive.  It is therefore an additional variable which is added to the estimated supply calculation.

Essentially going over the stacking limit will increase the demand for supply.  Inability to provide the additional supply results in greater difficulties than otherwise in reducing fatigue (which is also boosted but by a reasonably small amount).

In very simplified terms picture it as this.  Remember that supply is needed for several things.

(A)  You have a large stack of LCU units (called "Armee Nord") at a well stocked base whose SL is higher than the size of Armee Nord.  All units in Armee Nord are in green with their supply.

(B)  Armee Nord moves out of base into a hex which has a lower SL than Armee Nord.  Armee Nord remains at this hex for 5 days without being attacked in any manner by the enemy.

(C)  Out in the field the estimated supply requirement for Armee Nord are higher than they were when it was inside the base but because of it's close proximity to the well stocked base, it remains in the green as the additional supplies can be provided.

(D)  Eventually Armee Nord is attacked both aerially and terrestrially on day 6.  As Armee Nord organic supply is green at the start of day 6 it faces no additional difficulties in this days combat.  However the "supply needs" phase of day 6, which follows the combat now factors in the new additional supply requirement for day 7 and an even larger supply estimation than that which applied in days 1-5 is made.

(E)  The day 6 "supply operations" follows the day 6 "supply needs" estimation.  If all the necessary supply is able to be provided to Armee Nord during the day 6 "supply operations" phase, Armee Nord will appear at the start of day 7 in the green and therefore will enter any day 7 combat with no supply malus.  However if the day 6 "supply operations" phase was unable to fully satisfy the estimated supply requirement then Armee Nord starts day 7 in the red and will suffer some supply malus if combat resumes on day 7.


If the entire point of this thread is to determine whether you should land a large army on a non base hex with a SL lower than the size of the army, your task has been made much harder with the SL limits unless you have the capability to maintain a large offshore merchantman fleet to feed in every day the increased supply estimates.  A similar situation applies with regard to driving overland through low SL hexes except that then you are dependent on the distance from your terrestrial supply depots and how well stocked they are.  With sufficient logistical capability either move is feasible.  But it will be very costly if you must maintain your units in the green every day.

Alfred 

(in reply to Lokasenna)
Post #: 22
RE: When are stacking penalties applied to a hex? - 10/21/2015 5:10:02 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 25774
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna


quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

Stacking limits outside of island sizes are not sui generis.  They impact just like everything else referred to in s.3.0, 15.0 and 15.1 of the manual.

There are several factors which are taken into account in estimating how much supply a LCU will need.  The number of "shots" fired in combat will increase the supply determination.  If the hex has a stacking limit the consumption formula provided by michaelm is another discrete variable which is taken into account in the estimate.  The repairing and replacement of devices is another variable.

All the relevant variables for supply consumption and fatigue are taken into account in the "Supply Operations" phase which is detailed in the logistics chapter of the manual.  This is after combat has occurred and any malus which results (for example there being insufficient supply on hand) remains until the next "Supply Operations" phase which follows the next land combat phase.

Alfred


Digressing just a little bit, but the bolded part... even if supply is dropped to the hex by air or amphibious TF? It's been a while since this sort of situation has occurred in my games, but I had thought that dropping supply via plane or ship into a hex that wasn't a friendly base meant that the supply went directly into the organic supply of the unit(s) in the hex.

Now, the underlined part: when you say "all the relevant variables for supply consumption and fatigue", would stacking penalties be taken into account at this point as well?

I'm not Alfred, but my answer might help until he sees the post and answers.

"The underlined part": Yes, this is what I think (99.9% sure) was implied in the earlier mentioned 'developer statements' about when the stacking penalty for supply is applied.

"The bolded part": Supply moved into the (non-friendly base) hex via air drop or amphibious unloading are added directly to the units present. That supply is available for ground combat that day. I'm not 100% sure about it being available for defense against air strikes/naval bombardments.

Notably, once upon a time the code allocated either all or the vast majority of the supply so added to one unit. Michael made changes to the code so that the supply is better spread out between units, either by putting it into units more equitably upon the supply's arrival or by sharing (moving) supply between units, or both.

_____________________________


(in reply to Lokasenna)
Post #: 23
RE: When are stacking penalties applied to a hex? - 10/21/2015 5:10:33 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 25774
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline
Oops - type too slowly!

_____________________________


(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 24
RE: When are stacking penalties applied to a hex? - 10/21/2015 7:47:15 PM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9233
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline
This is all useful info. Thanks. I think I've got what I need to know what I should look for.

(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 25
Page:   [1]
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> When are stacking penalties applied to a hex? Page: [1]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.289