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Heroes of Normandie vs. LNL Heroes of Stalingrad

 
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Heroes of Normandie vs. LNL Heroes of Stalingrad - 10/7/2015 4:04:54 AM   
Rosseau

 

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I already own Heroes of Stalingrad. I am not familiar with the board game for the new HoN. Are there any reason(s) I should consider this title other than that it seems simpler or lighter fare?

I do not enjoy puzzle-like scenario challenges, and I'd have to trust them on coming thru with a real editor. I like how you can choose units, but with LNL HoS you can do almost anything mod-wise.

Any comments, or should I put the $20 toward CS Middle East!
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RE: Heroes of Normandie vs. LNL Heroes of Stalingrad - 10/7/2015 4:35:40 AM   
aaatoysandmore

 

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HoS is the better game. More detailed and a lot more fun.

HoN feels like some entry level game with no meat to it. You basically move and/or roll the die. Even though there are cover squares and such in most cases it doesn't even feel like they are there when the ai rolls against them. There's no rally only restrictions to orders if you don't have enough leaders to give orders. Like you can have 8 units but if you only have 3 orders that's all you can do per turn is issue 3 orders and move 3 units. Kinda defeats the purpose of having extra units. The turns are very short on most games like only 4 which makes me feel rushed to get to the objective which in skirmish (the open game) has no objectives but just eliminate all the enemy units which is near impossible in 4 turns since they can have 8 units also and eliminating 2 units per turn with only 3 or 4 orders is just near impossible since most units have a double damaged required to eliminate them and unless you get unbelievable rolls. There's already issues about the die rolls going on at Slitherine to the point they are going to change them for newcomers. Also, there are no random maps only premades. I see that getting boring real fast.

They say the cards will make a difference as they are not in the released version. Never had played the boargame so I don't know what these cards do. Unless they are elimination cards because I looked at you I don't see them adding to much to the game. It already has bonus features that give you extra die rolls and +1 to die rolls and grenades, panzer fausts and bazooka's that hit more than one square if they hit. They miss more often than they hit from what I've seen.

It's a game that could have been great and fun if they just remove the orders system and let players play all their counters every turn and add more turns per mission imho.

It has multiplayer but I couldn't see any fun in trying that out after playing the solo game. I had heard it was down a lot or didn't work at any rate.

(in reply to Rosseau)
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RE: Heroes of Normandie vs. LNL Heroes of Stalingrad - 10/7/2015 7:03:55 AM   
Rosseau

 

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Sounds worst than I thought - for me at least. I really appreciate you saving me $20

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RE: Heroes of Normandie vs. LNL Heroes of Stalingrad - 10/7/2015 9:03:42 AM   
major.pain

 

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I agree that HoS is a deeper game with more detail and is closer to a PC version ASL than HoN is.
Is it more fun to play i am on the fence there and i not getting off yet lol.

The order system is different and not what you would expect. Only able to order X amount of units per turn depending on how many orders you have to use(again when you play a game and pick your units orders are a consideration, more boots on the ground or a smaller highly mobile force??}.
Personally i like the mechanic and when you get used to it the strategy based just around that that idea makes for a game all of its own i feel.
One example being say the enemy has a leader unit providing him with 2 orders per turn a good thing to for example is to make it a priority to hunt him down leaving the enemy with 2 less orders he can make for the rest of the match.
Also the units that dont have the orders to move on your turn get to move at the end of the turn anyway, they get a free move and can not be fired upon, but also can not fire.
Great for moving up an MG to a more advantageous spot in cover without the fear of being one shotted, or running a fire team across open ground ect.
My favorite so far though being there are a couple of circumstances where a unit gets to perform an action as well as a free move.
A sneaky camouflaged recon unit i managed to move up earlier in the game in the hopes of the enemy pushing too far forward with his armor. So now i get to sticky bomb his tank without being fired on as Tanks cant reveal camouflaged units and my sticky bombs go off before the next turn begins. Great when it works lol.
There are other merits to the limited orders i enjoy as it makes you kind of thinks about what units you want to maneuver that turn and which you want to fight ect.

Ok, so not as deep as the Tiller games either though if your going that route i would plumb for John Tiller Campaign Series it absolutely huge.

Anyway if the devs deliver on what they are promising with the editor, bigger maps, more turns, cards and content and a dozen others things they seem keen to add i cant see how anyone would be disappointed provided they realize its based on a board game and it is not trying to be ASL.

< Message edited by M J R -- 10/7/2015 10:05:32 AM >

(in reply to Rosseau)
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RE: Heroes of Normandie vs. LNL Heroes of Stalingrad - 10/7/2015 4:59:02 PM   
aaatoysandmore

 

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A free move of a unit with no order available again on the next turn is nothing but a free move the whole game. You still only get that X number of orders the next turn and even if you use a different unit for an order there's still another one that gets to do nothing but move. I don't see any challenge or fun in that. Also, like you said if you concentrate on the leaders and eliminating them you pretty much end the game right there. It's too counter centric. Forget the tank take out the leaders first, that's just silly. No leaders, no orders, game over. How you can find fun in that I don't know. Actions in real warfare do not stop just because a leader got killed. When one leader gets killed another grunt takes his place usually the sgt. but corporals and other grunts too.

I want to move all my units like most every other war game out there. It's a silly rule and spoils the game. It leads to power gaming the game. Get all the units with stars, take the planning card with another free order star and have 5 actions per turn. That's one or two more extra fire phases or assaults against your opponent. On the German side you can get a HM42, two infantry and 1 recon, 2 regular leaders one with 2 stars and 1 with 1 star, the planning card and a hero tank bought in the star box on the unit group you got forget his name but that's 5 stars which means 5 orders. If the game doesn't roll a ton of 1's or 2's like it does you'll have a walloping machine and a half.

The name of the game will become he with the most orders wins the game (if you get the rolls everything depends on RNG too much and you may never get the rolls). Well, in skirmish mode anyways.

Honestly you should use your machine gun to suppress 1st and often. At least make the ai have to roll a 6 to hit you, as much as that happens though it won't make a big deal. He'll hit you believe me only needing a 6.

(in reply to major.pain)
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RE: Heroes of Normandie vs. LNL Heroes of Stalingrad - 10/7/2015 6:50:53 PM   
major.pain

 

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I get you don’t like the game that’s cool there are plenty of games that don’t click with me I am not trying to change your mind on that score.
Yeah you can try and pick an army and maximize the amount of leaders to provide you with more orders than your opponent but your only going to end up with 1 maybe 2 more orders at the most and then at a cost of your army strength and number of men or other bonuses.
Granted if you ended up with six orders and your opponent only picked three he deserves to lose really lol but that was his choice only to pick the three orders.
Like I said one thing you could try is making a push to try and kill off one of the your opponents exposed leaders culling his orders for the rest of the game true but I have used this tactics the other way also to lure a tank closer so I can Shrek it by showing my opponent what looked like as exposed Officer.
I don’t see the order restriction as a problem, I enjoyed playing Flashpoint Red Storm and that limited orders with the possibility of taking out HQ’s and limiting orders further.
I am willing to look past the games short comings cause I enjoy tactical boardgames and when they get converted to PC I’m in, this is the third one CoH, Hos, the others I bought on day one and I enjoy all three, the same can’t be said for other Matrix purchases.

(in reply to aaatoysandmore)
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RE: Heroes of Normandie vs. LNL Heroes of Stalingrad - 10/7/2015 11:11:21 PM   
wodin


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Well I watched the trailer and looked at the art and decided I could do with something that doesn't take itse;f to seriously and is the Kellys heroes type of wargame. I'm not disappointed, plays more or less how I thought it would. Enjoyable animations, fair few campaigns plus Skirmish and a Rogue like. Would have liked to be able to place terrain features onto maps to give even more variety. Like the Heroes feature which adds some personality to the game. Would like to see more though and maybe different weather types and different terrain types like mud and snow. Looking forward to any expansions as I expect it will get better and better as more content comes out.

Hasn't disappointed. Thankfully no mechanics that stand out for wrong reasons.

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RE: Heroes of Normandie vs. LNL Heroes of Stalingrad - 10/8/2015 8:40:36 AM   
major.pain

 

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Glad your enjoying it Wodin i agree its a lot of fun already i have about 8 PBEM's going at the minute as it suits the game well, you can just play your impulse(move a unit, attack)then pass it back taking a minute or two so you can get on with other things :)
From what i gather from forum posts one of the Slitherine guys Rob has said the editor is going to be quick and easy to create new maps and scenarios with just a matter of placing down tiles.
Also i asked the question on whether we can create huge maps (comparable to whats in the game now at least) with 20 turns ect and he has said yes, so that sounds awesome too.
I am "pretty sure" the board game has night and day rules and others have asked for weather to play a part too though i dont know if its getting added or not, i know cards are getting added plus you can pretty much guarantee that the expansions will be added in a some point even the Cthulhu theme one i bet, evil Nazis lol.

(in reply to wodin)
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RE: Heroes of Normandie vs. LNL Heroes of Stalingrad - 10/8/2015 9:53:33 AM   
Alchenar

 

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I'm sitting on the fence a bit and unfortunately I've heard aaatoysandmore's sentiment echoed from more than one other source.

It's a shame because HoN looked like a game that I could pitch to my Blood Bowl group as a similar thing to branch out into.

(in reply to major.pain)
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RE: Heroes of Normandie vs. LNL Heroes of Stalingrad - 10/8/2015 11:49:55 AM   
IainMcNeil


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We're about to release an update that makes the game much easier to get in to and learn for new comers so maybe wait to get some feedback on that before you decide.

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RE: Heroes of Normandie vs. LNL Heroes of Stalingrad - 10/8/2015 10:26:11 PM   
ezzler

 

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I don't like that it plays like a puzzle game.
Move X to Y on turn 1 unless you want to be defeated.

That's disappointing.

(in reply to IainMcNeil)
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RE: Heroes of Normandie vs. LNL Heroes of Stalingrad - 10/9/2015 8:06:00 AM   
wodin


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ezz, it does have a puzzle like feel. Hopefully as the content grows and w eget bigger maps that will change. I was reading a review of the boardgame where he stated the game plays alot better using bigger maps and more units.

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RE: Heroes of Normandie vs. LNL Heroes of Stalingrad - 10/9/2015 8:42:40 AM   
zakblood


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well if you want a quick fire match wodin, pm me and i'll put an hour to one side and go head to head :) in any battle, either side m8

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RE: Heroes of Normandie vs. LNL Heroes of Stalingrad - 10/9/2015 8:58:03 AM   
major.pain

 

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Hey Wodin be careful of this shark here circling just below you, he's ranked number one lol.

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RE: Heroes of Normandie vs. LNL Heroes of Stalingrad - 10/9/2015 9:03:23 AM   
zakblood


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200+ hours in game, total top score ranking is 300,000 so yes i've played a bit :)

score will be wiped soon as i keep asking for it to be done every time i finish it, as i've finished it 3 times now so wish to re play again from the start and have the stats wiped, it help me know where i've been and what still is left to do, so always after more players, great game, great developers, good priced and fun


(in reply to major.pain)
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RE: Heroes of Normandie vs. LNL Heroes of Stalingrad - 10/9/2015 9:09:54 AM   
major.pain

 

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I think you should be forced to keep your score as is so people can avoid you in multiplayer lol

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RE: Heroes of Normandie vs. LNL Heroes of Stalingrad - 10/9/2015 9:17:14 AM   
zakblood


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games of skill and luck means it doesn't really matter who you play online, if the dice rolls against you, you lose, knowing the terrain, what works and what doesn't most or some of the time helps, but it's still more about luck than pure skill, put the hours into any game, and anyone can be at the top, doesn't mean they are the best player, just the one atm with the most free time

my gaming skills are poor, my free time is high, add in the ability to study the board like a chess game, and then play both sides many many times, some moves are better than others, distance plus terrain, facing and unit makes some difference, but in the end, add up all the variables and if the roll goes against you, matters little, as you miss, so it's skill times luck = % chance of hit and win....

so i just play the odds, and it's fun, if you win, your a luckier player, if i win i'll say it's skill

i have 6 matches on the go atm, but can do as many as there are free ones, while i'm here and not on holiday i wish to move on and test some more

10 online wins, means i got lucky 10 times, doesn't show how many i've lost but for a guess it's twice that number plus

next time i will play with IronMan mode on and see how lucky i am with the dice rolls then...

< Message edited by zakblood -- 10/9/2015 10:23:52 AM >

(in reply to major.pain)
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RE: Heroes of Normandie vs. LNL Heroes of Stalingrad - 10/9/2015 9:34:12 AM   
major.pain

 

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Iron man mode yes a question, does this effect the dice roles in a multiplayer match, i know it does is single.
I turned on iron man mode when i got the update and have played a couple of turns in multi since.
So i was wondering have i shot myself in the foot if my opponent is not playing the multiplayer in iron man mode, is he getting the more biased dice rolls now??

(in reply to zakblood)
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RE: Heroes of Normandie vs. LNL Heroes of Stalingrad - 10/9/2015 9:38:33 AM   
zakblood


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good question, no idea tbh, wasn't here when it was announced and i've never tested it either, so it's as new to me as everyone else, good idea in theory but not used myself as yet so have no idea how it effects anything at all, but for a guess, and it is a guess, it won't make any difference in online, as both have to be not only same version for a game to work, same settings maybe as well? but hopefully admin or a mod will step in and give a correct answer as i'm in the dark on that one as well, as soon as my score gets wiped i'll test it and find out, but it will be answered already i'd guess by then.

reposted your question on the forum so it will get seen and replied to quicker

http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=388&t=67774&p=573488#p573488

< Message edited by zakblood -- 10/9/2015 10:40:22 AM >

(in reply to major.pain)
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RE: Heroes of Normandie vs. LNL Heroes of Stalingrad - 10/9/2015 9:43:15 AM   
major.pain

 

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Cheers buddy :)

(in reply to zakblood)
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RE: Heroes of Normandie vs. LNL Heroes of Stalingrad - 10/9/2015 10:31:13 AM   
VPaulus

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: M J R

Iron man mode yes a question, does this effect the dice roles in a multiplayer match, i know it does is single.
I turned on iron man mode when i got the update and have played a couple of turns in multi since.
So i was wondering have i shot myself in the foot if my opponent is not playing the multiplayer in iron man mode, is he getting the more biased dice rolls now??

For mutliplayer games, IronMan Mode is always ON, regardless of the players' settings in Options.

(in reply to major.pain)
Post #: 21
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