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Doctors Without Borders - 10/4/2015 6:33:06 AM   
rhondabrwn


Posts: 2582
Joined: 9/29/2004
From: Snowflake, Arizona
Status: offline
You are all probably aware of the attack on the MSF Hospital in Kundur, Afghanistan by an American AC-130 Hercules Gunship.

Not intending to provoke a debate, but here is the link to donate to Doctor's Without Borders. A good organization with good people putting their lives on the line in the most Hellish places on Earth.

https://donate.doctorswithoutborders.org/monthly.cfm?source=AZD1500A1D51&utm_source=google&utm_medium=ppc

_____________________________

Love & Peace,

Far Dareis Mai

My old Piczo site seems to be gone, so no more Navajo Nation pics :(
Post #: 1
RE: Doctors Without Borders - 10/4/2015 7:01:45 AM   
Orm


Posts: 22253
Joined: 5/3/2008
From: Sweden
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quote:

A good organization with good people putting their lives on the line in the most Hellish places on Earth.

Hear, hear.

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(in reply to rhondabrwn)
Post #: 2
RE: Doctors Without Borders - 10/4/2015 7:14:54 AM   
Jagdtiger14


Posts: 1690
Joined: 1/22/2008
From: Miami Beach
Status: offline
Yea...I wont be donating to Doctors without scruples...very anti-Semitic. Also, several of the US doctors that came home and were in West Africa refused to isolate themselves until it was certain they didn't have ebola...very generous towards ebola infested west Africans, but very selfish in their own home country.

There is word getting out that the attack could be a war crime (personally I highly doubt it)...but if it is, I assume the Commander in Chief takes full responsibility on that score?

_____________________________

Conflict with the unexpected: two qualities are indispensable; first, an intellect which, even in the midst of this obscurity, is not without some traces of inner light which lead to the truth; second, the courage to follow this faint light. KvC

(in reply to rhondabrwn)
Post #: 3
RE: Doctors Without Borders - 10/4/2015 7:26:39 AM   
Orm


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Joined: 5/3/2008
From: Sweden
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quote:

There is word getting out that the attack could be a war crime (personally I highly doubt it)...but if it is, I assume the Commander in Chief takes full responsibility on that score?

You do not fear that would become a precedent?

< Message edited by Orm -- 10/4/2015 8:27:49 AM >


_____________________________

Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

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Post #: 4
RE: Doctors Without Borders - 10/4/2015 7:29:20 AM   
warspite1


Posts: 44993
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

quote:

There is word getting out that the attack could be a war crime (personally I highly doubt it)...but if it is, I assume the Commander in Chief takes full responsibility on that score?

You do not fear that would become a precedent?
warspite1

No Orm, the Commander in Chief is the PRESIDENT - not the PRECEDENT....






_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to Orm)
Post #: 5
RE: Doctors Without Borders - 10/4/2015 7:38:43 AM   
Jagdtiger14


Posts: 1690
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From: Miami Beach
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Domestic and international haters of GW and Cheney were screaming about war crimes from the get go...lets see how silent they are on this. I bet you can hear a pin drop.

Personally I highly doubt there is any crime here anyway...my guess is the cowards ran for cover into the hospital and no one in the air could see or know it was a hospital. No one ordered a hospital destroyed.

_____________________________

Conflict with the unexpected: two qualities are indispensable; first, an intellect which, even in the midst of this obscurity, is not without some traces of inner light which lead to the truth; second, the courage to follow this faint light. KvC

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 6
RE: Doctors Without Borders - 10/4/2015 7:57:39 AM   
Orm


Posts: 22253
Joined: 5/3/2008
From: Sweden
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

quote:

There is word getting out that the attack could be a war crime (personally I highly doubt it)...but if it is, I assume the Commander in Chief takes full responsibility on that score?

You do not fear that would become a precedent?
warspite1

No Orm, the Commander in Chief is the PRESIDENT - not the PRECEDENT....






No, no. We both spelled it wrongly. It is PRESEDENT.



https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_Of_American_Presedents

_____________________________

Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

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Post #: 7
RE: Doctors Without Borders - 10/4/2015 7:59:21 AM   
warspite1


Posts: 44993
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

quote:

There is word getting out that the attack could be a war crime (personally I highly doubt it)...but if it is, I assume the Commander in Chief takes full responsibility on that score?

You do not fear that would become a precedent?
warspite1

No Orm, the Commander in Chief is the PRESIDENT - not the PRECEDENT....






No, no. We both spelled it wrongly. It is PRESEDENT.



https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_Of_American_Presedents
warspite1

What the....? What genius writ that?


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to Orm)
Post #: 8
RE: Doctors Without Borders - 10/4/2015 10:16:51 AM   
rhondabrwn


Posts: 2582
Joined: 9/29/2004
From: Snowflake, Arizona
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jagdtiger14

Yea...I wont be donating to Doctors without scruples...very anti-Semitic. Also, several of the US doctors that came home and were in West Africa refused to isolate themselves until it was certain they didn't have ebola...very generous towards ebola infested west Africans, but very selfish in their own home country.

There is word getting out that the attack could be a war crime (personally I highly doubt it)...but if it is, I assume the Commander in Chief takes full responsibility on that score?


Anti-Semitic? Because they work in Gaza? Anti-Israel perhaps but not Anti-Semitic. I've got plenty of Jewish friends who no longer support Israel and I've personally lost a lot of respect due to the way they treat the Palestinians. Plenty of opposition in Israel as well, just not enough to seize control of the government.

If a wounded Jew walks into an MSF hospital, I have no doubt that they will be treated without discrimination. MSF serves all Humanity, they don't take sides in who they treat.

My personal view is that the Taliban instructed their hidden supporters inside the Afghan government to pass on "info" that the MSF hospital was now serving as the Taliban Command Center. The false intelligence was passed through channels to the Americans who ordered the strike... ignoring GPS coordinates of the hospital as a "no fire" area. We'll see what our "investigation" finds... some heads should roll, but probably not the right ones.

Now can we get back to making a donation to MSF?

_____________________________

Love & Peace,

Far Dareis Mai

My old Piczo site seems to be gone, so no more Navajo Nation pics :(

(in reply to Jagdtiger14)
Post #: 9
RE: Doctors Without Borders - 10/4/2015 2:44:38 PM   
Jagdtiger14


Posts: 1690
Joined: 1/22/2008
From: Miami Beach
Status: offline
Ok, I'll give you that...anti-Israel, not anti-Semitic. But that doesn't fly either if they are supposed to be completely neutral.

"Seize control of the government"...probably a poor choice of words...Israel has democracy...unless those who oppose Bibi want a coup?

"Due to the way they treat the Palestinians"...I think we both know some common sense things the Palestinians FIRST need to do to get things on a better track...especially if Palestinians love their children and want what's best for them.

The organization should have admonished those US doctors who came back from their ebola work in west Africa (refused to take precautionary measures to make sure they couldn't transmit anything to anyone else...instead of going bowling, out to eat, taking the subway, taxis, etc...). Very arrogant and gives the organization a black eye.

_____________________________

Conflict with the unexpected: two qualities are indispensable; first, an intellect which, even in the midst of this obscurity, is not without some traces of inner light which lead to the truth; second, the courage to follow this faint light. KvC

(in reply to rhondabrwn)
Post #: 10
RE: Doctors Without Borders - 10/4/2015 3:02:43 PM   
GaryChildress

 

Posts: 6876
Joined: 7/17/2005
From: The Divided Nations of Earth
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: rhondabrwn

You are all probably aware of the attack on the MSF Hospital in Kundur, Afghanistan by an American AC-130 Hercules Gunship.

Not intending to provoke a debate, but here is the link to donate to Doctor's Without Borders. A good organization with good people putting their lives on the line in the most Hellish places on Earth.

https://donate.doctorswithoutborders.org/monthly.cfm?source=AZD1500A1D51&utm_source=google&utm_medium=ppc


Thanks for the update Rhonda! I'm already donating to them monthy. I hadn't yet heard about the gunship incident. Horrible, absolutely horrible news to hear!

I'm tempted now to try to make an additional one time donation if I can afford it. Unfortunatley I'm still unemployed, though. I'll have to check my finances closer. Absolutely horrific....

_____________________________


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Post #: 11
RE: Doctors Without Borders - 10/4/2015 3:03:51 PM   
operating


Posts: 3066
Joined: 1/19/2013
Status: online
quote:

The organization should have admonished those US doctors who came back from their ebola work in west Africa (refused to take precautionary measures to make sure they couldn't transmit anything to anyone else...instead of going bowling, out to eat, taking the subway, taxis, etc...). Very arrogant and gives the organization a black eye.

Yes, that caught my attention too....

(in reply to Jagdtiger14)
Post #: 12
RE: Doctors Without Borders - 10/4/2015 3:56:50 PM   
GaryChildress

 

Posts: 6876
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From: The Divided Nations of Earth
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Wrote a letter to the POTUS a few minutes ago:

quote:

Dear Mr. President,

The recent attack on Doctors Without Borders is an International outrage. It deserves a full apology from the White House and not simply “condolences”. Please ensure that those young men and women who lost their lives yesterday did not die in vain and that this never happens again. This is a tragedy of enormous import on all our consciences. As an organization, those same young men and women almost singlehandedly saved us all from Ebola only one year ago and now they are just “collateral casualties” who receive our “condolences”.

Please Mr. President. I implore you to issue a full and humble apology to Doctors Without Borders from the White House as well as take necessary steps to ensure the safety of all human rights workers in the beleaguered regions of the world.

Thank you very much for your consideration.

Sincerely,

Gary Childress
Democrat
Apopka, Florida


I suggest others voice their objections as well.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/contact/submit-questions-and-comments

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Post #: 13
RE: Doctors Without Borders - 10/4/2015 4:51:14 PM   
z1812


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Joined: 9/1/2004
Status: offline
While it is tragic that 12 MSF staffers were killed we should also remember that patients were also the victims of this attack.

It is amazing to me, that amid the horrendous loss of life in the Middle East, that we focus on small bits of tragedy providing us self righteous outrage while we enjoy our coffee and ponder the news.

If we need a drowned child to focus our attention on the tragedy of Syria, or dead Aid Workers to understand the brutality of the Afghanistan conflict, then it is a sad comment indeed on the state of human awareness and compassion.

Mind you it does sell the News.

< Message edited by z1812 -- 10/4/2015 9:37:04 PM >

(in reply to rhondabrwn)
Post #: 14
RE: Doctors Without Borders - 10/4/2015 4:54:14 PM   
Yogi the Great


Posts: 2001
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Wisconsin
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gary Childress

Wrote a letter to the POTUS a few minutes ago:

quote:

Dear Mr. President,

The recent attack on Doctors Without Borders is an International outrage. It deserves a full apology from the White House and not simply “condolences”. Please ensure that those young men and women who lost their lives yesterday did not die in vain and that this never happens again. This is a tragedy of enormous import on all our consciences. As an organization, those same young men and women almost singlehandedly saved us all from Ebola only one year ago and now they are just “collateral casualties” who receive our “condolences”.

Please Mr. President. I implore you to issue a full and humble apology to Doctors Without Borders from the White House as well as take necessary steps to ensure the safety of all human rights workers in the beleaguered regions of the world.

Thank you very much for your consideration.

Sincerely,

Gary Childress
Democrat
Apopka, Florida


I suggest others voice their objections as well.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/contact/submit-questions-and-comments


Tragedy of course. Apologize sure. Careful about objections to proper operations. Unfortunately there are civilian and unintended losses that will occur in war, always have been and probably always will be. Add to that an enemy that has been known to use religious and medical facilities as cover and even hides and accepts casualties to non-combatant women and children. We can all recognize and feel for such losses, but we also have to know that not everything comes with no risk. If the facility was intentionally attacked knowing what it was without justification is one thing, but if not it is another. Friendly fire and collateral damage are unfortunate but also a reality of war.

(in reply to GaryChildress)
Post #: 15
RE: Doctors Without Borders - 10/4/2015 5:40:16 PM   
GaryChildress

 

Posts: 6876
Joined: 7/17/2005
From: The Divided Nations of Earth
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quote:

ORIGINAL: z1812

While it is tragic that 12 MSF staffers were killed we should also remember that patients were also the victims of this attack.

It is amazing to me, that amid the horrendous loss of life in the Middle East, that we focus on small bits of tragedy providing us self righteous outrage while enjoy our coffee and ponder the news.

If we need a drowned child to focus our attention on the tragedy of Syria, or dead Aid Workers to understand the brutality of the Afghanistan conflict, then it is a sad comment indeed on the state of human awareness and compassion.

Mind you it does sell the News.


Not sure if this was aimed at me but first off I've been pretty outraged at the whole ME affair all the way down to the decision to invade Iraq to begin with. I've voiced opposition to much ME policy at various times and places, so NO, this is not a sudden change of heart for me due to a particular loss of life.

"this is a sad comment indeend...self righteous", sounds like maybe you are speaking for yourself, dude.

< Message edited by Gary Childress -- 10/4/2015 6:43:20 PM >


_____________________________


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Post #: 16
RE: Doctors Without Borders - 10/4/2015 5:50:22 PM   
operating


Posts: 3066
Joined: 1/19/2013
Status: online
Mind you what Donald Trump says is true: Ratings is what the media focuses it's attention on (what is the highest). As soon as some other event pops up, this whole story this thread is based on, Will be forgotten.

(in reply to GaryChildress)
Post #: 17
RE: Doctors Without Borders - 10/4/2015 5:55:54 PM   
GaryChildress

 

Posts: 6876
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From: The Divided Nations of Earth
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Sorry Rhonda,

It appears the thread is headed in a political direction, probably in part due to me. I'll stop.

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Post #: 18
RE: Doctors Without Borders - 10/4/2015 8:42:06 PM   
z1812


Posts: 1772
Joined: 9/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gary Childress

quote:

ORIGINAL: z1812

While it is tragic that 12 MSF staffers were killed we should also remember that patients were also the victims of this attack.

It is amazing to me, that amid the horrendous loss of life in the Middle East, that we focus on small bits of tragedy providing us self righteous outrage while enjoy our coffee and ponder the news.

If we need a drowned child to focus our attention on the tragedy of Syria, or dead Aid Workers to understand the brutality of the Afghanistan conflict, then it is a sad comment indeed on the state of human awareness and compassion.

Mind you it does sell the News.


Not sure if this was aimed at me but first off I've been pretty outraged at the whole ME affair all the way down to the decision to invade Iraq to begin with. I've voiced opposition to much ME policy at various times and places, so NO, this is not a sudden change of heart for me due to a particular loss of life.

"this is a sad comment indeend...self righteous", sounds like maybe you are speaking for yourself, dude.


My comments were not directed at anyone.........they are simply my point of view.

If there was any personal intended innuendo it would seem not be in my post but in the last sentence of yours.

(in reply to GaryChildress)
Post #: 19
RE: Doctors Without Borders - 10/4/2015 9:57:05 PM   
GaryChildress

 

Posts: 6876
Joined: 7/17/2005
From: The Divided Nations of Earth
Status: offline
never mind...

< Message edited by Gary Childress -- 10/5/2015 12:15:06 AM >


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Post #: 20
RE: Doctors Without Borders - 10/4/2015 10:59:40 PM   
rhondabrwn


Posts: 2582
Joined: 9/29/2004
From: Snowflake, Arizona
Status: offline
Donate... or do not donate... the choice is yours.

Let's not get into arguments over it... please...

_____________________________

Love & Peace,

Far Dareis Mai

My old Piczo site seems to be gone, so no more Navajo Nation pics :(

(in reply to GaryChildress)
Post #: 21
RE: Doctors Without Borders - 10/4/2015 11:13:55 PM   
z1812


Posts: 1772
Joined: 9/1/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gary Childress


quote:

ORIGINAL: z1812


quote:

ORIGINAL: Gary Childress

quote:

ORIGINAL: z1812

While it is tragic that 12 MSF staffers were killed we should also remember that patients were also the victims of this attack.

It is amazing to me, that amid the horrendous loss of life in the Middle East, that we focus on small bits of tragedy providing us self righteous outrage while enjoy our coffee and ponder the news.

If we need a drowned child to focus our attention on the tragedy of Syria, or dead Aid Workers to understand the brutality of the Afghanistan conflict, then it is a sad comment indeed on the state of human awareness and compassion.

Mind you it does sell the News.


Not sure if this was aimed at me but first off I've been pretty outraged at the whole ME affair all the way down to the decision to invade Iraq to begin with. I've voiced opposition to much ME policy at various times and places, so NO, this is not a sudden change of heart for me due to a particular loss of life.

"this is a sad comment indeend...self righteous", sounds like maybe you are speaking for yourself, dude.


My comments were not directed at anyone.........they are simply my point of view.

If there was any personal intended innuendo it would seem not be in my post but in the last sentence of yours.



I apologize, z1812, if I misunderstood. I saw your post directly after mine and wrongly took it as a reply to mine since I was expressing my "outrage" at the events and you seemed to be implying that someone named "we" "focus on small bits of tragedy providing us self righteous outrage while we enjoy our coffee and ponder the news." I hope you understand why I may have mistekenly taken it personally.


No Problem. Sometimes in posts it is hard to know who is responding to what. For instance in my original post it says I am responding to rhondabwrn. But actually I was only stating my opinion and responding to no one.



(in reply to GaryChildress)
Post #: 22
RE: Doctors Without Borders - 10/4/2015 11:18:28 PM   
GaryChildress

 

Posts: 6876
Joined: 7/17/2005
From: The Divided Nations of Earth
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: z1812


quote:

ORIGINAL: Gary Childress


quote:

ORIGINAL: z1812


quote:

ORIGINAL: Gary Childress

quote:

ORIGINAL: z1812

While it is tragic that 12 MSF staffers were killed we should also remember that patients were also the victims of this attack.

It is amazing to me, that amid the horrendous loss of life in the Middle East, that we focus on small bits of tragedy providing us self righteous outrage while enjoy our coffee and ponder the news.

If we need a drowned child to focus our attention on the tragedy of Syria, or dead Aid Workers to understand the brutality of the Afghanistan conflict, then it is a sad comment indeed on the state of human awareness and compassion.

Mind you it does sell the News.


Not sure if this was aimed at me but first off I've been pretty outraged at the whole ME affair all the way down to the decision to invade Iraq to begin with. I've voiced opposition to much ME policy at various times and places, so NO, this is not a sudden change of heart for me due to a particular loss of life.

"this is a sad comment indeend...self righteous", sounds like maybe you are speaking for yourself, dude.


My comments were not directed at anyone.........they are simply my point of view.

If there was any personal intended innuendo it would seem not be in my post but in the last sentence of yours.



I apologize, z1812, if I misunderstood. I saw your post directly after mine and wrongly took it as a reply to mine since I was expressing my "outrage" at the events and you seemed to be implying that someone named "we" "focus on small bits of tragedy providing us self righteous outrage while we enjoy our coffee and ponder the news." I hope you understand why I may have mistekenly taken it personally.


No Problem. Sometimes in posts it is hard to know who is responding to what. For instance in my original post it says I am responding to rhondabwrn. But actually I was only stating my opinion and responding to no one.





Yeah. Things are confusing sometimes on message boards. I will honor Rhonda's request and not make further issue of it. I was wrong. I'll leave it at that. The important thing is MSR. I will donate to them, although I know that won't bring back the dead and injured. I guess stuff like this is difficult for all of us to deal with.

_____________________________


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Post #: 23
RE: Doctors Without Borders - 10/5/2015 6:41:06 PM   
KISSMEUFOOL!


Posts: 133
Joined: 11/18/2013
Status: offline
quote:

Mind you what Donald Trump says is true: Ratings is what the media focuses it's attention on (what is the highest). As soon as some other event pops up, this whole story this thread is based on, Will be forgotten.

(reposted so that we dont forget).


I will be funding most of their operations soon, God willing.

(in reply to GaryChildress)
Post #: 24
RE: Doctors Without Borders - 10/5/2015 7:44:24 PM   
Lecivius


Posts: 4955
Joined: 8/5/2007
From: Denver
Status: offline
Begin Lock count down.

5
4
3
....

(in reply to KISSMEUFOOL!)
Post #: 25
RE: Doctors Without Borders - 10/5/2015 9:25:04 PM   
VPaulus

 

Posts: 3598
Joined: 6/23/2011
From: Portugal
Status: offline
and locked.

(in reply to Lecivius)
Post #: 26
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