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RE: 1.08.05 Beta - 9/30/2015 7:33:25 AM   
morvael


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I wanted to have on-map regiments become multirole units as well, to compensate a bit for the lack of corps combat units on the German side (hence being unable to deploy 100k men per hex as the Soviets can). However since they don't divide into 3 parts when converted to support units, one could attach as much as 3 full regiments to a division, and Denniss rejected my proposal. And now multiroles are mod only...

I guess the proper way to do it would be to alter scenarios to transform those regiment combat units into 2-3 battalion sized support units.

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Post #: 31
RE: 1.08.05 Beta - 9/30/2015 1:42:13 PM   
vinnie71

 

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Glad to know that it was at least considered and appreciate Denniss's answer on the matter. Any idea if at least the Blackshirt regiments would be turned into multi-role units? At least these could be used as garrisons since presently they cannot be attached to divisions (as they were historically).

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Post #: 32
RE: 1.08.05 Beta - 9/30/2015 1:52:53 PM   
morvael


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There will be no multirole units at all in official WitE data (the list shown before is now invalid), though you could create a mod with them.

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Post #: 33
RE: 1.08.05 Beta - 9/30/2015 2:24:58 PM   
vinnie71

 

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Then there is no way of that ever happening coz I can't programme anything to save my life!

Pity it couldn't be an option like the blizzard approach...

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Post #: 34
RE: 1.08.05 Beta - 9/30/2015 4:17:40 PM   
chaos45

 

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Wish this would just drop so we could get new games started lol.......

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Post #: 35
RE: 1.08.05 Beta - 9/30/2015 4:35:46 PM   
Commanderski


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quote:

There will be no multirole units at all in official WitE data (the list shown before is now invalid), though you could create a mod with them.


Does that mean it's something we can create in the Editor?

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Post #: 36
RE: 1.08.05 Beta - 9/30/2015 6:33:08 PM   
morvael


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Yes.

By the way, nice avatar, Commanderski :)

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Post #: 37
RE: 1.08.05 Beta - 9/30/2015 8:05:12 PM   
Denniss

 

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As far as I understand the multirole functionality is kept in the .exe but the previously as multirole-capable marked OBs had this marking removed.

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Post #: 38
RE: 1.08.05 Beta - 10/1/2015 2:00:11 AM   
vinnie71

 

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Any chance of making this into an optional setting in the future?

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Post #: 39
RE: 1.08.05 Beta - 10/1/2015 7:12:40 AM   
morvael


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No.

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Post #: 40
RE: 1.08.05 Beta - 10/1/2015 9:06:31 PM   
Joel Billings


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quote:

ORIGINAL: chaos45

Wish this would just drop so we could get new games started lol.......



Just an update. The final files were sent to Matrix on Tuesday. They are in their production queue and I expect since this is coming out as a public beta, they will likely be made available sometime next week. Of course, this is in no way a promise as things can come up to delay getting the installer built and posted, but this estimate is based on the last information I have.

For those of you interested, the Torch files have also been submitted and barring any unforeseen calamities, will be released on schedule on October 8 (as will the WitW 1.01.01 update). Had a development call today with Gary, Pavel, John and me re WitE 2.0 and work on that is now moving forward on the front burner (although Pavel has also been working on speeding up the logistics phase in WitW as that will be even more important for WitE2, and Gary is focused more on Steel Tigers).

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Post #: 41
RE: 1.08.05 Beta - 10/1/2015 9:42:17 PM   
Commanderski


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quote:

Just an update. The final files were sent to Matrix on Tuesday. They are in their production queue and I expect since this is coming out as a public beta, they will likely be made available sometime next week. Of course, this is in no way a promise as things can come up to delay getting the installer built and posted, but this estimate is based on the last information I have.

For those of you interested, the Torch files have also been submitted and barring any unforeseen calamities, will be released on schedule on October 8 (as will the WitW 1.01.01 update). Had a development call today with Gary, Pavel, John and me re WitE 2.0 and work on that is now moving forward on the front burner (although Pavel has also been working on speeding up the logistics phase in WitW as that will be even more important for WitE2, and Gary is focused more on Steel Tigers).


Great news! Thanks for the update.

(in reply to Joel Billings)
Post #: 42
RE: 1.08.05 Beta - 10/1/2015 11:42:12 PM   
LiquidSky


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As a big time player of WitW and an old player of WiTE I thought I might mention a few facts about multirole units when used in WitW.

The best use of a multirole unit is to cover terrain in quiet, easily defended areas of the front. Or areas of little enemy activity.

Here it would be a waste to use a full division...the divisions will be free to concentrate where you want your defense/offense to be greater.

If you stack the MR unit in a hex with a division...well..it's the same as if the MR unit was in support (within the division).

If the unit is used as an ant in a front line position....then it is going to get run over. These small units just do not stand up against a three division stack. Or I imagine, a single Russian rifle corp. They would end up becoming guard unit generators for the Russians.

But somewhere like Finland....or the Pripyet Marshes.....they can guard the front against moderate resistance. They can be used to guard against (or hunt) partisans. Thus freeing up real divisions to do real work.

They are also useful for fanning out of a breakthrough and 'reconning' for the enemy front line. Like after Cobra when the Germans are evacuating France. Or I imagine during a Case Blue

< Message edited by LiquidSky -- 10/2/2015 12:44:07 AM >


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Post #: 43
RE: 1.08.05 Beta - 10/6/2015 6:05:51 PM   
Joel Billings


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Some new info on when the next public beta will likely be released. Unfortunately the Matrix production staff is incredibly busy, and with the Essen game fair going on they are a man down. Don't expect anything this week, and it's very possible that the public beta may slip past next week. We're very sorry about the delay, but I'm sure Matrix is doing everything possible to get it out as soon as they can. I'll update this thread with any new info as I get it.

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Post #: 44
RE: 1.08.05 Beta - 10/8/2015 5:24:44 PM   
obssesednuker

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

Some new info on when the next public beta will likely be released. Unfortunately the Matrix production staff is incredibly busy, and with the Essen game fair going on they are a man down. Don't expect anything this week, and it's very possible that the public beta may slip past next week. We're very sorry about the delay, but I'm sure Matrix is doing everything possible to get it out as soon as they can. I'll update this thread with any new info as I get it.


That's unfortunate. Does it apply to the steam patch as well?

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Post #: 45
RE: 1.08.05 Beta - 10/12/2015 7:56:01 AM   
VigaBrand

 

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Give germany the ability to built small units! (Maybe after 1943)
In the first Winter the army group Center built the ski bataillon "Schlebrügge". This is only a support unit.
At the moment as the germans it is like reading a book!
If I will be cautious or had not that many casaulties as historic, why I shouldn't bring new units in?
I understand why I shouldn't allow to bring new divisions in, but what is with support units?
Maybe you can limit that.
At the moment, I was pretty carefull with my army and had over 200k men and armament points in the pool and I'm unable to bring that on the field!
Allow me support units like:
- infantery bataillon (or MG/art bataillon)
- engineer
- artillery bataillon
- anti tank bataillon
and some special air squadrons. (Fighter, Bomber (both), Recon and Air transport).
It is very unrealistic, that I had the resources, the front need it and I couldn't used them!
And Romania, Slovakia, Finnland and Hungary should be able to built new infantery divisions/security regiments. That will not change the balance but give the axis more fun in '43 and later.


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Post #: 46
RE: 1.08.05 Beta - 10/12/2015 12:30:07 PM   
chaos45

 

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I would disagree on the Axis-allied bringing in additional forces.

The game is already very generous with how axis-allied forces were used. These units really werent under full German command and control the way they are split up with the Germans in most games would have never been allowed by the respective nations. Reading the newest book on the Hungarian Army now and there was alot of Political issues between Germany and Hungary about the entire war in Russia. Hungary had no desire to be in a war in Russia and in all honesty would have preferred a war with Romania over territory lost. So alot of Hungarian assets were withheld or prevented from frontline use by the Hungarian Government. Hungary was trying to negotiate with the Western allies to leave the war at various points even before the final occupation by Germany in 1944. Basically from like 1943 on OKW/OKH should have to put troops aside to invade/occupy Hungary as thats more or less what was going on and the only reason Hungary stayed in the war as long as they did.

Not to mention this but both Romania and Hungary were very unprepared for war and massively increasing their forces like they did to field the divisions represented in the game was even far past their actual ability. The reason many units performed very poorly. Very badly trained and typically very ill-equipped. Both countries were relying on German arms support to get their units up to snuff for modern combat and the Germans needed almost all their modern arms to keep the German army in the field. Only Romania got any real substantial arms support from Germany in exchange for Oil. One of the main hungarian army trucks was a ford if that tells you anything lol. The German army gave the hungarian army a bunch of old trucks, but they werent even complete so the hungarians had to have their industry build the parts to finish building the trucks the Germans gave them. Plus German industry was extremely stingy with Aircraft/tank/artillery designs....As the hungarians and im sure the Romanians asked to be able to tool their factories to build German designs and German companies refused basically due to trade rights/money. Shows how poor the German economy was that even faced with losing a global war their industry would rather lose than risk losing out on money from designs....and the fact that the German government didnt force compliance to better the war effort.

Its one of the main reasons Germany lost the war.....they built a very poor alliance that didnt use the resources at its disposal at all effectively. Italy being a another basket case that could have much better supported the Axis if they had been leaned on appropriately. Italian industry was specifically not supporting the war effort and stockpiling resources to make money after the war was over. One of the reasons Germany did so well in 1944 was looting all these Italian resources that were found when they took over the country.

They had manpower and industry that could have been of much better use to the war effort in effect wasted because of a superiority complex and the monetary benefits of German firms.


(in reply to VigaBrand)
Post #: 47
RE: 1.08.05 Beta - 10/13/2015 2:31:29 AM   
proflui

 

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Just a newbie question. I am in a middle of a game. What will happen when the patch comes out? Will it erase my saves and I have to start over? I am using steam. Thanks.

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Post #: 48
RE: 1.08.05 Beta - 10/13/2015 4:08:48 AM   
elxaime

 

Posts: 272
Joined: 11/3/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: chaos45

I would disagree on the Axis-allied bringing in additional forces.

The game is already very generous with how axis-allied forces were used. These units really werent under full German command and control the way they are split up with the Germans in most games would have never been allowed by the respective nations. Reading the newest book on the Hungarian Army now and there was alot of Political issues between Germany and Hungary about the entire war in Russia. Hungary had no desire to be in a war in Russia and in all honesty would have preferred a war with Romania over territory lost. So alot of Hungarian assets were withheld or prevented from frontline use by the Hungarian Government. Hungary was trying to negotiate with the Western allies to leave the war at various points even before the final occupation by Germany in 1944. Basically from like 1943 on OKW/OKH should have to put troops aside to invade/occupy Hungary as thats more or less what was going on and the only reason Hungary stayed in the war as long as they did.

Not to mention this but both Romania and Hungary were very unprepared for war and massively increasing their forces like they did to field the divisions represented in the game was even far past their actual ability. The reason many units performed very poorly. Very badly trained and typically very ill-equipped. Both countries were relying on German arms support to get their units up to snuff for modern combat and the Germans needed almost all their modern arms to keep the German army in the field. Only Romania got any real substantial arms support from Germany in exchange for Oil. One of the main hungarian army trucks was a ford if that tells you anything lol. The German army gave the hungarian army a bunch of old trucks, but they werent even complete so the hungarians had to have their industry build the parts to finish building the trucks the Germans gave them. Plus German industry was extremely stingy with Aircraft/tank/artillery designs....As the hungarians and im sure the Romanians asked to be able to tool their factories to build German designs and German companies refused basically due to trade rights/money. Shows how poor the German economy was that even faced with losing a global war their industry would rather lose than risk losing out on money from designs....and the fact that the German government didnt force compliance to better the war effort.

Its one of the main reasons Germany lost the war.....they built a very poor alliance that didnt use the resources at its disposal at all effectively. Italy being a another basket case that could have much better supported the Axis if they had been leaned on appropriately. Italian industry was specifically not supporting the war effort and stockpiling resources to make money after the war was over. One of the reasons Germany did so well in 1944 was looting all these Italian resources that were found when they took over the country.

They had manpower and industry that could have been of much better use to the war effort in effect wasted because of a superiority complex and the monetary benefits of German firms.




Good stuff. Would add that the internal conflicts within the German leadership had a huge impact on resource and manpower availability as well. Goering, Himmler, the Todt Organization, the various Ost ministers, the Hitler Youth, Speer, on and on with people jockeying for the Fuhrer's favor and being up and down depending on his whims. Many troop deployments were for political reasons.

(in reply to chaos45)
Post #: 49
RE: 1.08.05 Beta - 10/13/2015 6:54:28 AM   
VigaBrand

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: VigaBrand

Give germany the ability to built small units! (Maybe after 1943)
In the first Winter the army group Center built the ski bataillon "Schlebrügge". This is only a support unit.
At the moment as the germans it is like reading a book!
If I will be cautious or had not that many casaulties as historic, why I shouldn't bring new units in?
I understand why I shouldn't allow to bring new divisions in, but what is with support units?
Maybe you can limit that.
At the moment, I was pretty carefull with my army and had over 200k men and armament points in the pool and I'm unable to bring that on the field!
Allow me support units like:
- infantery bataillon (or MG/art bataillon)
- engineer
- artillery bataillon
- anti tank bataillon
and some special air squadrons. (Fighter, Bomber (both), Recon and Air transport).
It is very unrealistic, that I had the resources, the front need it and I couldn't used them!
....

Okay, why did nobody answer to this?
The problems with the axis allies I understand.


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Post #: 50
RE: 1.08.05 Beta - 10/13/2015 8:16:11 AM   
loki100


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quote:

ORIGINAL: proflui

Just a newbie question. I am in a middle of a game. What will happen when the patch comes out? Will it erase my saves and I have to start over? I am using steam. Thanks.


you'll be fine, usually the patches are save game friendly. But I'd suggest wait till you see feedback on the forum as sometimes rule changes can shift the balance a bit too much

quote:

ORIGINAL: VigaBrand


quote:

ORIGINAL: VigaBrand

Give germany the ability to built small units! (Maybe after 1943)
In the first Winter the army group Center built the ski bataillon "Schlebrügge". This is only a support unit.
At the moment as the germans it is like reading a book!
If I will be cautious or had not that many casaulties as historic, why I shouldn't bring new units in?
I understand why I shouldn't allow to bring new divisions in, but what is with support units?
Maybe you can limit that.
At the moment, I was pretty carefull with my army and had over 200k men and armament points in the pool and I'm unable to bring that on the field!
Allow me support units like:
- infantery bataillon (or MG/art bataillon)
- engineer
- artillery bataillon
- anti tank bataillon
and some special air squadrons. (Fighter, Bomber (both), Recon and Air transport).
It is very unrealistic, that I had the resources, the front need it and I couldn't used them!
....

Okay, why did nobody answer to this?
The problems with the axis allies I understand.



I'd say no to airpower, if the Germans could have built and staffed more Luftwaffe formations I think by 1943 those would have gone to the west. In WiTW, you curse all those planes being 'wasted' in the East.

the small stuff sounds feasible if you had the pools.

The wider point though is that both sides over-recruited into their military to replace losses and harmed their agriculture (esp the Soviets) and industry as a result. So of your 200,000 in the pool and my 1.2m in reality I'd expect a fair number to be drawn back into industry rather than used to generate combat formations?

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Post #: 51
RE: 1.08.05 Beta - 10/13/2015 12:50:09 PM   
chaos45

 

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Agree on luftwaffe issues- also fuel and trained pilots were a huge issue for the luftwaffe all the time even if airframes were available.

I would agree that German should be allowed to build some additional battalion sized support units.

This was often done at the local levels all the time to support operations. Usually robbed out of hide but if the German player is doing well I see no reason they shouldnt be allowed to get some benefit out of it and battalion level units shouldnt unbalance the game to much.

They should start at a low experience level and take awhile to train since they would be completely new formations...so talking like 20 experience starting and needed months to train up would be my take....as historically it took months to establish and train up new formations.

The Soviets new formations pay in blood due to low experience usually as they have to be thrown in, and the Germans could do this to but need to start low so its not an instant additional of several extra divisions of Battalions...plus cost probably abit more AP than Soviet formations.

My 2 cents on it.

(in reply to loki100)
Post #: 52
RE: 1.08.05 Beta - 10/13/2015 4:11:28 PM   
Joel Billings


Posts: 27111
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: obssesednuker


quote:

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

Some new info on when the next public beta will likely be released. Unfortunately the Matrix production staff is incredibly busy, and with the Essen game fair going on they are a man down. Don't expect anything this week, and it's very possible that the public beta may slip past next week. We're very sorry about the delay, but I'm sure Matrix is doing everything possible to get it out as soon as they can. I'll update this thread with any new info as I get it.


That's unfortunate. Does it apply to the steam patch as well?



AFAIK the public beta will be available through Steam and Matrix. As usual, ongoing games will not benefit from data changes, but you should be able to continue an old game using the public beta.

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Post #: 53
RE: 1.08.05 Beta - 10/14/2015 11:46:46 AM   
Andrew Loveridge


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This is now available in the Members Club and on Steam as a Beta.


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Post #: 54
RE: 1.08.05 Beta - 10/15/2015 2:39:47 AM   
charlie0311

 

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Anybody notice if, or how, the new EZOC MP cost affect the Axis opening?

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Post #: 55
RE: 1.08.05 Beta - 10/15/2015 5:43:02 AM   
VigaBrand

 

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From: Germany
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Important will be, that the soviet inf and cav need less mp to march in enemy zoc. That can be huge!
The german armor and mot will have no change, but the inf can move deeper.


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Post #: 56
RE: 1.08.05 Beta - 10/15/2015 8:08:29 AM   
morvael


Posts: 11288
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From: Poland
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So do German infantry units.

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Post #: 57
RE: 1.08.05 Beta - 10/16/2015 6:51:21 AM   
abulbulian


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I want to send out a huge kudos to all those that helped 1.08.05 become reality this week. Morvael being at the top of the list. Very excited to start playing some WitE again after almost a year lay off. Busy year with WitW Torch and a few other new titles. Now if I can only convince my arch rival Bill Wheatley to pick up the Bolshevik cause one more time. He role plays a one heck of good Stalin and at time throws some Zhukov in the mix.

< Message edited by abulbulian -- 10/16/2015 7:53:16 AM >


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