Matrix Games Forums

Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

Russian Airbase in Syria

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [General] >> General Discussion >> Russian Airbase in Syria Page: [1] 2 3   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Russian Airbase in Syria - 9/23/2015 4:27:03 AM   
Capt. Harlock


Posts: 5383
Joined: 9/15/2001
From: Los Angeles
Status: offline
A number of people have been wondering why Russia wants to base fixed-wing fighter aircraft in that airbase they're building in Syria. Such fighters do not seem to have a relevant purpose against insurgent groups that have no air forces of their own. We may now have the answer:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/11883107/Russian-jets-in-Syria-mean-no-fly-zone-is-out-of-the-question-warn-experts.html


_____________________________

Civil war? What does that mean? Is there any foreign war? Isn't every war fought between men, between brothers?

--Victor Hugo
Post #: 1
RE: Russian Airbase in Syria - 9/23/2015 9:32:48 AM   
Terminus


Posts: 41460
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline
Russia's purpose has never been to fight insurgents. It's shielding Assad's murderous regime and showing the West that Russia is not to be trifled with. Putin may be a megalomaniac, but he's a stone cold calculating one.

Thread lock in 5... 4... 3...

_____________________________

We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.

(in reply to Capt. Harlock)
Post #: 2
RE: Russian Airbase in Syria - 9/23/2015 12:29:48 PM   
Jagdtiger14


Posts: 1690
Joined: 1/22/2008
From: Miami Beach
Status: offline
No fly zones can be created from both the ground as well as from Space. Russia's fixed wing aircraft are useless if the free world decides they are...which with the state of current western leadership, Putin can make this statement and many others.

2...1...

_____________________________

Conflict with the unexpected: two qualities are indispensable; first, an intellect which, even in the midst of this obscurity, is not without some traces of inner light which lead to the truth; second, the courage to follow this faint light. KvC

(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 3
RE: Russian Airbase in Syria - 9/23/2015 2:41:51 PM   
KISSMEUFOOL!


Posts: 133
Joined: 11/18/2013
Status: offline
God Bless Russia and President Putin! Time long overdue for Syria to buy my gold!

(in reply to Jagdtiger14)
Post #: 4
RE: Russian Airbase in Syria - 9/23/2015 2:47:18 PM   
Capt. Harlock


Posts: 5383
Joined: 9/15/2001
From: Los Angeles
Status: offline
quote:

No fly zones can be created from both the ground as well as from Space. Russia's fixed wing aircraft are useless if the free world decides they are...


Well, let's talk about the practical aspects. I assume the Western powers would have to install Patriot and other anti-aircraft missile batteries to deny Syrian airspace to Assad's air units. Where would they be located? How would they be manned and kept in supply? The easiest way would be to station warships with SAMs off the Syrian coast, but would these have the range to control the interior of the country?

_____________________________

Civil war? What does that mean? Is there any foreign war? Isn't every war fought between men, between brothers?

--Victor Hugo

(in reply to Jagdtiger14)
Post #: 5
RE: Russian Airbase in Syria - 9/23/2015 2:53:03 PM   
KISSMEUFOOL!


Posts: 133
Joined: 11/18/2013
Status: offline
quote:

The easiest way would be to station warships with SAMs off the Syrian coast, but would these have the range to control the interior of the country?

That presumes NATO even has a right to do so in the first place.

(in reply to Capt. Harlock)
Post #: 6
RE: Russian Airbase in Syria - 9/23/2015 3:31:33 PM   
Poopyhead

 

Posts: 613
Joined: 3/17/2004
Status: offline
This use for the airbase was obvious right from the start.

Russia can veto anything the U.N. security council does. NATO won't do anything without the U.S. and Obama isn't going to do anything more than sporadic air sorties. Besides, Turkey, Jordan, Israel and anyone else who feels like it is flying sorties into Syria. How are ship based SAM's going to determine friend from foe in a no-fly zone?

Also, don't overlook one important point. The Russian fighters might be in position to intercept any Isreali airstrike overflying Syria on its way to Iranian nuke sites.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/israel/iran.htm


< Message edited by Poopyhead -- 9/23/2015 4:51:11 PM >


_____________________________

Astrologers believe that your future is determined on the day that you are born.
Warriors know that your future is determined on the day that your enemy dies.

(in reply to KISSMEUFOOL!)
Post #: 7
RE: Russian Airbase in Syria - 9/23/2015 3:53:27 PM   
Orm


Posts: 22253
Joined: 5/3/2008
From: Sweden
Status: offline
One must remember that Russia (or USSR) have had a military base in Syria since '71.



_____________________________

Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

(in reply to Poopyhead)
Post #: 8
RE: Russian Airbase in Syria - 9/23/2015 4:39:30 PM   
wings7


Posts: 4608
Joined: 8/11/2003
From: Phoenix, Arizona
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

One must remember that Russia (or USSR) have had a military base in Syria since '71.




Show us your source!

_____________________________

Please come and join and befriend me at the great Steam portal! There are quite a few Matrix/Slitherine players on Steam! My member page: http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197988402427

(in reply to Orm)
Post #: 9
RE: Russian Airbase in Syria - 9/23/2015 8:02:09 PM   
Orm


Posts: 22253
Joined: 5/3/2008
From: Sweden
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: wings7


quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

One must remember that Russia (or USSR) have had a military base in Syria since '71.




Show us your source!

Cut from: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-18616191

"Under a 1971 deal with Syria, Russia has leased the Tartus facility as part of a multi-billion-dollar debt write-off."


< Message edited by Orm -- 9/23/2015 9:03:26 PM >


_____________________________

Have a bit more patience with newbies. Of course some of them act dumb -- they're often students, for heaven's sake. - Terry Pratchett

(in reply to wings7)
Post #: 10
RE: Russian Airbase in Syria - 9/23/2015 9:53:33 PM   
operating


Posts: 3075
Joined: 1/19/2013
Status: online
Russia will leave Syria the same way it left Afghanistan

(in reply to Orm)
Post #: 11
RE: Russian Airbase in Syria - 9/23/2015 11:14:01 PM   
Jagdtiger14


Posts: 1690
Joined: 1/22/2008
From: Miami Beach
Status: offline
Operating has it correct. Something interesting to watch: Go to youtube and search "Syria tank battles"...there are tons of videos...most show tanks destroyed by what look like TOW rockets. Tanks are already not safe in Syria, these Russian ones recently brought in wont be either.

What I was referring to as for a no-fly zone: 1. From "space"...Israel already has used targeted EMP bursts in Syria to take down the Syrian air defenses when they attacked one of their heavily defended (with advanced Russian anti-air defenses) "research" sites. The same kind of weapon could be used on any airbase flying sorties making the aircraft useless. 2. From "ground"...the use of an advanced form of Stinger (single person hand held anti-air weapon). The problem with this is that these might get into the hands of terrorists, so their dissemination would have to be limited to only trusted (non-PKK Kurds) or western special forces.

So, no need of outdated and defeatable SAM's, and the Patriot system is way long outdated. Both these systems can be "wild weaseled" by the enemy and knocked out (except those from ships)...which would make them a big waste of money.

_____________________________

Conflict with the unexpected: two qualities are indispensable; first, an intellect which, even in the midst of this obscurity, is not without some traces of inner light which lead to the truth; second, the courage to follow this faint light. KvC

(in reply to operating)
Post #: 12
RE: Russian Airbase in Syria - 9/24/2015 12:10:07 AM   
Beilisarius


Posts: 27
Joined: 8/31/2015
From: U.S.A.
Status: offline
Putin is reasserting Russian Influence in the region, filling a vacuum created by our disengagement.
Toward that end, He is looking to build a major naval base on Cyprus and looking to re-establish the influence the Soviets had in Egypt, pre Sadat.
He will begin to arm the Kurds to help fight ISIS which will simultaneously destabilize Turkey ( a key NATO member ). The Kurds will declare an independent state on the Iraq/Turkey border which will also protect and insulate Russia from Muslim extremists and probably help bring about a civil war in Turkey. It will also bring about the end of Iraq as we know it and allow Iran to control the Eastern parts while the rest gets divided up among various warring factions.
Putin is no fool. He is methodical and very well informed. And he will take advantage of any opening we leave him.

(in reply to Jagdtiger14)
Post #: 13
RE: Russian Airbase in Syria - 9/24/2015 12:31:14 AM   
Aurelian

 

Posts: 4300
Joined: 2/26/2007
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

quote:

ORIGINAL: wings7


quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

One must remember that Russia (or USSR) have had a military base in Syria since '71.




Show us your source!

Cut from: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-18616191

"Under a 1971 deal with Syria, Russia has leased the Tartus facility as part of a multi-billion-dollar debt write-off."



http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/syria/tartous.htm

_____________________________


(in reply to Orm)
Post #: 14
RE: Russian Airbase in Syria - 9/24/2015 1:40:06 AM   
Jagdtiger14


Posts: 1690
Joined: 1/22/2008
From: Miami Beach
Status: offline
I have not heard anything about Russia wishing to assist the Kurds. If that is true, keep in mind the Kurds are not monolithic. The Iraqi and Iranian Kurds are allied on one side (somewhat pro-US...used to be very pro-US, but less so under Obama), while some of the Turkish and Syrian Kurds are allied on another (PKK Kurds are Communists...although they have made efforts to hide and distort that fact)...the Iraqi Kurds are in Syria assisting in the civil war. Its my thinking that the Kurds will accept assistance from anyone, even Putin. Also, the Kurds in Syria have made deals with the Syrian government (cease-fires, exchanges, etc...) mainly because of the ISIS/ISIL threat.

_____________________________

Conflict with the unexpected: two qualities are indispensable; first, an intellect which, even in the midst of this obscurity, is not without some traces of inner light which lead to the truth; second, the courage to follow this faint light. KvC

(in reply to Aurelian)
Post #: 15
RE: Russian Airbase in Syria - 9/24/2015 2:33:27 PM   
KISSMEUFOOL!


Posts: 133
Joined: 11/18/2013
Status: offline
quote:

1. From "space"...Israel already has used targeted EMP bursts in Syria to take down the Syrian air defenses when they attacked one of their heavily defended (with advanced Russian anti-air defenses) "research" sites. The same kind of weapon could be used on any airbase flying sorties making the aircraft useless.


So its true that weapons are being deployed in orbit now?!

(in reply to Jagdtiger14)
Post #: 16
RE: Russian Airbase in Syria - 9/24/2015 5:11:09 PM   
wings7


Posts: 4608
Joined: 8/11/2003
From: Phoenix, Arizona
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

quote:

ORIGINAL: wings7


quote:

ORIGINAL: Orm

One must remember that Russia (or USSR) have had a military base in Syria since '71.




Show us your source!

Cut from: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-18616191

"Under a 1971 deal with Syria, Russia has leased the Tartus facility as part of a multi-billion-dollar debt write-off."



Thanks!

_____________________________

Please come and join and befriend me at the great Steam portal! There are quite a few Matrix/Slitherine players on Steam! My member page: http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197988402427

(in reply to Orm)
Post #: 17
RE: Russian Airbase in Syria - 9/25/2015 3:59:07 AM   
Jagdtiger14


Posts: 1690
Joined: 1/22/2008
From: Miami Beach
Status: offline
I just read that the Syrians have lost 1,800+ tanks two years into the civil war.

_____________________________

Conflict with the unexpected: two qualities are indispensable; first, an intellect which, even in the midst of this obscurity, is not without some traces of inner light which lead to the truth; second, the courage to follow this faint light. KvC

(in reply to wings7)
Post #: 18
RE: Russian Airbase in Syria - 9/25/2015 9:05:22 AM   
Saint Ruth


Posts: 854
Joined: 12/16/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jagdtiger14

I just read that the Syrians have lost 1,800+ tanks two years into the civil war.

That's interesting. Where did you read it?

(in reply to Jagdtiger14)
Post #: 19
RE: Russian Airbase in Syria - 9/25/2015 1:39:14 PM   
JosephM

 

Posts: 202
Joined: 3/18/2014
Status: offline
Yep, I'd like a link too. It wouldn't surprise me. In the early days of ISIS, they got some quite advanced weaponry from Iraq, and are mostly in Syria rather than Iraq, and the FSA and other rebels have also been taking their toll.

(in reply to Saint Ruth)
Post #: 20
RE: Russian Airbase in Syria - 9/25/2015 2:07:27 PM   
Jagdtiger14


Posts: 1690
Joined: 1/22/2008
From: Miami Beach
Status: offline
http://theweek.com/articles/578867/what-america-learned-from-spying-chinese-war-games

Its actually within this article on the Chinese war gaming armor tactics.

It seems every rebel group has been killing tanks. Take a look at youtube: "Syrian tank battles" and you will see dozens of different media and rebel groups represented...seems they all have gopros.

< Message edited by Jagdtiger14 -- 9/25/2015 3:10:20 PM >


_____________________________

Conflict with the unexpected: two qualities are indispensable; first, an intellect which, even in the midst of this obscurity, is not without some traces of inner light which lead to the truth; second, the courage to follow this faint light. KvC

(in reply to JosephM)
Post #: 21
RE: Russian Airbase in Syria - 9/25/2015 2:32:16 PM   
JosephM

 

Posts: 202
Joined: 3/18/2014
Status: offline
Yep, saw this from a link on the Flashpoint forum.

I think in general everyone seems to find attacking Syrian tanks quite easy to eliminate, as they are neglecting infantry support in urban areas - one of my first games of BA2 against Iain taught me the error of trying to charge tanks through a city with no infantry. I lost worse than people normally lose to Iain.

(in reply to Jagdtiger14)
Post #: 22
RE: Russian Airbase in Syria - 9/25/2015 2:52:49 PM   
KISSMEUFOOL!


Posts: 133
Joined: 11/18/2013
Status: offline
I hope Syria also gets the M1-

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/m1-abrams-tanks-for-iraq-05013/

(in reply to JosephM)
Post #: 23
RE: Russian Airbase in Syria - 9/25/2015 5:17:36 PM   
Hertston


Posts: 3564
Joined: 8/17/2002
From: Cornwall, UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Russia's purpose has never been to fight insurgents. It's shielding Assad's murderous regime and showing the West that Russia is not to be trifled with. Putin may be a megalomaniac, but he's a stone cold calculating one.



If nothing else Putin's strategy is coherent - which is more than you can say about anybody else (ISIS excepted). The West is now pathetically flailing about supporting a 'side' that, because they were given insufficient support when it mattered, now either no longer effectively exists or is just another 'terrorist' faction depending on who you talk to.

The only conceivable victors in Syria now are Assad or ISIS with the former being the lesser of two evils. The only sensible Western policy that might recover some ground and dignity from the mess is to expel ISIS from Iraq and successfully stabilize that country by any means necessary. As to Syria let Putin and Assad get on with it. Assad's regime may have been 'murderous' but it was nowhere near as murderous for civilians as being caught between the Syrian Army and ISIS nutters on a seemingly endless basis.

(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 24
RE: Russian Airbase in Syria - 9/25/2015 6:36:49 PM   
Zap


Posts: 3777
Joined: 12/6/2004
From: LAS VEGAS TAKE A CHANCE
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hertston


quote:

ORIGINAL:

As to Syria let Putin and Assad get on with it.but it was nowhere near as murderous for civilians as being caught between the Syrian Army and ISIS nutters on a seemingly endless basis.






I have to agree with the above. Since it appears the West is giving only lip service to the Evilness of ISIS but the actions taken (even if it meant ally with Assad) are half hearted.

< Message edited by Zap -- 9/25/2015 7:38:04 PM >


_____________________________


(in reply to Hertston)
Post #: 25
RE: Russian Airbase in Syria - 9/25/2015 8:03:19 PM   
AbwehrX


Posts: 339
Joined: 10/27/2013
Status: offline
quote:

I hope Syria also gets the M1-

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/m1-abrams-tanks-for-iraq-05013/

That would only be just. ISIS is the devils brew.

quote:


I have to agree with the above. Since it appears the West is giving only lip service to the Evilness of ISIS but the actions taken (even if it meant ally with Assad) are half hearted.

Rumor has it that ISIS works for the West on a suicide mission anyway. If weapons actually are being deployed in orbit then that means Russia & China probably have them there too. That could get way out of control.

(in reply to Zap)
Post #: 26
RE: Russian Airbase in Syria - 9/25/2015 11:34:42 PM   
Fred98


Posts: 4405
Joined: 1/5/2001
From: Wollondilly, Sydney
Status: offline
I think the days of tanks are numbered.

In the olden days there was a weapon called the Anti Tank Gun. It took some time to deploy and had to be camouflaged.

Today anti tank weapons are fired from the shoulder. It is very easy to hide the soldier and his weapon.

And it is not so hard to destroy tanks from aircraft and helicopters.

Aircraft and helicopters have trouble hitting dispersed infantry.

So I think, just as it was 100 years ago, artillery is once again queen of the modern battlefield.

.




(in reply to AbwehrX)
Post #: 27
RE: Russian Airbase in Syria - 9/26/2015 2:39:51 PM   
operating


Posts: 3075
Joined: 1/19/2013
Status: online
Would not be totally surprised that Assad cedes part of Syria to the Russians before he abdicates or is forced from power. Kinda like Gitmo from Cuba to the USA.

(in reply to Fred98)
Post #: 28
RE: Russian Airbase in Syria - 9/26/2015 4:08:15 PM   
Jagdtiger14


Posts: 1690
Joined: 1/22/2008
From: Miami Beach
Status: offline
I'm not sure, but I think Gitmo has a 99 year lease...starting from 1934...so it ends in 2033?

The problem Assad has to cede territory is his alawite (sp?) clan...which basically stretches along the coast line. He might get away with a very long term lease though.

As far as the days of tanks being numbered...keep in mind the tanks being destroyed in Syria are Russian tanks...mostly of the older variety. Modern western tanks are quite different: The US Abrams has depleted uranium armor, some special armor the Brits developed, and electronic counter measures (Softkill) that defeats incoming anti-tank missiles. Nothing is ever fool proof...but with technology and tactics...

_____________________________

Conflict with the unexpected: two qualities are indispensable; first, an intellect which, even in the midst of this obscurity, is not without some traces of inner light which lead to the truth; second, the courage to follow this faint light. KvC

(in reply to operating)
Post #: 29
RE: Russian Airbase in Syria - 9/26/2015 4:10:23 PM   
z1812


Posts: 1774
Joined: 9/1/2004
Status: offline
This may interest those reading this thread.

http://www.realcleardefense.com/articles/2015/09/25/weekly_recon_920-926_108514.html

The last section deals with Russia in Syria. However the complete article is interesting.

< Message edited by z1812 -- 9/26/2015 5:13:06 PM >

(in reply to Jagdtiger14)
Post #: 30
Page:   [1] 2 3   next >   >>
All Forums >> [General] >> General Discussion >> Russian Airbase in Syria Page: [1] 2 3   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.383