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RE: MAP Tools in WitE2?

 
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RE: MAP Tools in WitE2? - 4/11/2020 9:26:05 PM   
Joel Billings


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No, we haven't talked about map drawing tools, although agree that would be nice. Not sure what that would entail, so would need to talk it over with the programmers to understand the feasibility of it.

We are making decent progress, having switched over to our new AOG (air operational groups) and implemented 95% of the Air AI assist system. We've got a few features left to add in that area, but the amount of items left to be done there has greatly diminished. Marc has been working on our interface art changes, and we're trying to get most of it done by May. We're internally targeting adding in a new batch of testers around mid-May, but there are a few things we really want to get done first before we open it up to a lot of new testers. So as with all dates, this could slip. The more we get done before we bring people in the less confusion they'll be. It won't be at full beta in May, but there are a few items we can leave to be added later that shouldn't really impact most testing. We'd still like to get the game out this year. We'll just have to see how quickly these last items go in and how well things hold up once we add in a bunch of new testers.

We really aren't in a position to show you anything for two reasons. One, since we're getting close, as long as the art hasn't been finalized, we don't want to show you things still in construction. Second, Matrix understandably wants to have a plan for rolling out info on new features. Discussions about this should start soon, so hopefully it won't be too long before you start seeing some info.

I will say that player's will have to adjust some of their tactics to account for all of the changes. I'll say more about that later, but we are going to try to add some things to the interface to help players be more aware of the impact of their actions.

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RE: MAP Tools in WitE2? - 4/11/2020 10:30:56 PM   
Wild


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Glad to see good progress is being made. I can't wait to get this game.

Thanks for the update Joel.

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Post #: 1922
RE: MAP Tools in WitE2? - 4/12/2020 1:12:45 PM   
joelmar


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@Joel Billings

Glad to read!



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Post #: 1923
RE: MAP Tools in WitE2? - 4/12/2020 7:29:34 PM   
M60A3TTS


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings
I will say that player's will have to adjust some of their tactics to account for all of the changes.


And he ain't kiddin'

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Post #: 1924
RE: MAP Tools in WitE2? - 4/12/2020 9:03:34 PM   
eskuche

 

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Excellent, tooltips and more info is (usually) never bad.

Are there plans, formally or informally, for a quick "for WitE1/WitW players" section of the manual for major changes?

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Post #: 1925
RE: MAP Tools in WitE2? - 4/12/2020 9:11:02 PM   
loki100


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quote:

ORIGINAL: eskuche

...

Are there plans, formally or informally, for a quick "for WitE1/WitW players" section of the manual for major changes?


already written and included

we did it very early in the alpha phase to help players spot the key differences and its one of the ways we are hoping to orientate new players of WiTE2

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RE: MAP Tools in WitE2? - 4/12/2020 9:55:44 PM   
redrum68

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: eskuche
Excellent, tooltips and more info is (usually) never bad.


+1 to this. While a detailed manual is helpful, it can be very hard to keep up to date. The more info the game can provide to the player, the better!

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Post #: 1927
RE: MAP Tools in WitE2? - 4/13/2020 3:21:18 PM   
joelmar


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quote:


quote:
ORIGINAL: Joel Billings
I will say that player's will have to adjust some of their tactics to account for all of the changes.


ORIGINAL: M60
And he ain't kiddin'


so I guess it's a pretty steep change of paradigm then.


< Message edited by joelmar -- 4/13/2020 3:22:05 PM >


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RE: MAP Tools in WitE2? - 4/13/2020 3:30:21 PM   
Telemecus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: joelmar

quote:


quote:
ORIGINAL: Joel Billings
I will say that player's will have to adjust some of their tactics to account for all of the changes.


ORIGINAL: M60
And he ain't kiddin'


so I guess it's a pretty steep change of paradigm then.



Oh God yes! There are veteran WitE1 players of the very grogiest type who have cried at the WitE2 rulebook! As it develops knowing WitE1 well is becoming less and less of an aid.


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RE: MAP Tools in WitE2? - 4/13/2020 4:30:30 PM   
Elessar2


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Quick question: Is Gary Grigsby himself deeply involved in the new build in question, or is he more like an executive producer at this point, if he's involved at all? Just curious.

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Post #: 1930
RE: MAP Tools in WitE2? - 4/13/2020 5:21:01 PM   
loki100


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Telemecus

quote:

ORIGINAL: joelmar

quote:


quote:
ORIGINAL: Joel Billings
I will say that player's will have to adjust some of their tactics to account for all of the changes.


ORIGINAL: M60
And he ain't kiddin'


so I guess it's a pretty steep change of paradigm then.



Oh God yes! There are veteran WitE1 players of the very grogiest type who have cried at the WitE2 rulebook! As it develops knowing WitE1 well is becoming less and less of an aid.



I think its more that WiTE1 has developed a series of conventions that are based around exploiting/using intelligently (delete to taste) the game engine rather than any basis in reality. Add on patches that shift key concepts around for various reasons.

So you'll need to drop a whole load of that game lore, there are things here and on discord that leave me wondering what its like to play WiTE1 these days.

I don't actually find that WiTE2 is particularly complex, just it has some different design concepts and that the tool kit is different.

Plus so far, while some conventions have emerged among the testers, they are less well articulated (nature of weekly .exe releases) than for #1.

Going to the point above, we are trying to sort out the manual so it does a few things. First it highlights and tries to hammer home some key parts to the game design - especially about logistics. Second we try to give players the reasons for taking certain play approaches (a lot of the tactical/operational process of 1941 relies on different play to WiTE1 - as a harmless eg 'morale-farming' is downright stupid in #2). Finally it provides background details for those who want to go deeper.

But the intent is to give players a good strong push in the right direction so you can get up and playing pretty quickly.

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RE: MAP Tools in WitE2? - 4/13/2020 8:00:04 PM   
joelmar


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Interesting Loki100.

WitE is far from perfect, but still, it does the job to a great extent. What I do hope to get from WitE2 is the same fun, the same need for multi-layered thinking and the same playability. 1.12.04 is a really good upgrade to WitE 1.11.03 in that matter. I don't know about game balance and realistic, those can always be discussed as we have seen many times on these forums. Anyway, game play tactics may change, but strategy will always be strategy and knowledge on this can always be carried from one game to another.

I think the greatest problem with WitE #1 in a "realistic" sense is the limitless throughput of the rail system, for my part, that is the main reason why I'm looking forward to WitE #2. Of course, when I get to play it or hopefully test it, I might discover other things as important or maybe even more. I know the air war for one thing is much different, but I have no idea how and never played WitW, so I will have to wait to try to have a real idea.

That said, you can never really get rid of a game engine and there must be "exploits" in WitE2 too waiting for inventive brains to discover them... lol... one of my first IT bosses was the leading expert on security for one of the biggest engineering company in Canada... and he always said: "there is no security system in the world that can't be cracked... the only thing it needs is someone who wants to crack it".

I sometimes feel it's the same with the "black box" of WitE!

< Message edited by joelmar -- 4/13/2020 8:01:34 PM >


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Post #: 1932
RE: MAP Tools in WitE2? - 4/14/2020 9:37:45 PM   
Joel Billings


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Elessar2

Quick question: Is Gary Grigsby himself deeply involved in the new build in question, or is he more like an executive producer at this point, if he's involved at all? Just curious.


Yes, he's still deeply involved in the design and the code. His primary focus has been the combat code, logistics, the AI, and the AI air assist feature.

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Post #: 1933
Export Files - 4/15/2020 4:27:32 PM   
AtAtack

 

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A great thing of WitE is the possibility to export the unit details and many more from the "Commander Report" to Excel.
Hope it will be also a part of WitE 2!!

But it would be fantastic if also the Battle report details(all) would be exportable with all details so you can follow the way from the enemy units!

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Post #: 1934
RE: Export Files - 4/16/2020 3:10:30 PM   
Joel Billings


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Pavel has been converting the CR screens to a new format, and as he's done that, he's added the export to CSV capability.

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Post #: 1935
RE: Export Files - 4/16/2020 7:10:28 PM   
joelmar


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@Joel Billings

That's great news! The CR is great for in game managing, and I've seen some screenshots of the new in game management tools, but the CSV export is gold for so many other things, like post-turns analysis, unit data comparison over time and planning. Thanks :-)

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Post #: 1936
Server Game - 4/17/2020 11:29:05 AM   
AtAtack

 

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Hope there will be also a Server Game Option (Cloud).

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Post #: 1937
RE: Server Game - 4/17/2020 9:54:37 PM   
loki100


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of course the game will offer the option to use the Matrix/Slitherine servers for MP.

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Post #: 1938
RE: Server Game - 4/17/2020 11:36:18 PM   
56ajax


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Hope the CR has easier unit selection; like a tick box in preference to parameter search. And includes any new attributes important to the game; eg distance to enemy unit.

Hope the Event log or equivalent has a calendar in it - like Cav Corps can be built in 3 turns....2 turns....

Recon or Intelligence function that lists all 'spotted' enemy units (detection level = ?) like if Pz units suddenly disappear

and some type of functionality that summarises the state of your army, like the spreadsheet warriors seem to make.



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Post #: 1939
RE: Server Game - 4/28/2020 8:30:00 AM   
Killmaster851

 

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.

< Message edited by Killmaster851 -- 4/28/2020 3:36:24 PM >

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Post #: 1940
RE: Server Game - 4/28/2020 9:09:23 AM   
comte


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When its done

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Post #: 1941
RE: Server Game - 5/1/2020 10:33:47 PM   
Joel Billings


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We think we're within a month of getting close enough to beta to want to bring in some new testers. Probably a few months from full game play beta (i.e everything but new videos/music/manuals).

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Post #: 1942
RE: Server Game - 5/1/2020 10:54:25 PM   
eskuche

 

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Post #: 1943
RE: Server Game - 5/1/2020 11:11:41 PM   
joelmar


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Great news! Thanks for the update!

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Post #: 1944
RE: Server Game - 5/2/2020 12:25:11 AM   
redrum68

 

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Exciting! Hopefully we start getting some teasers!

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Post #: 1945
RE: Server Game - 5/2/2020 10:34:56 AM   
MrBlizzard


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In WITE2 the Finns no move line and no attack line will be the same as in WITE? will they surely move south if Germans conquer Leningrad?
In real life they were very reluctant in acting this way, would be nice to have some hazard they remain on old borders.
Thanks

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RE: Server Game - 5/2/2020 12:45:44 PM   
robinsa


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBlizzard

In WITE2 the Finns no move line and no attack line will be the same as in WITE? will they surely move south if Germans conquer Leningrad?
In real life they were very reluctant in acting this way, would be nice to have some hazard they remain on old borders.
Thanks

As far as I understand the Finnish front will be abstracted, so I dont think this will be a problem.

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Post #: 1947
RE: Server Game - 5/2/2020 1:01:38 PM   
robinsa


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In WITE2 will captured soldiers fighting for the enemy have their own manpower pool? Depending on how the WTIE2 scoring works, I think losing these units should also give a smaller impact to VP. In WITW it's a problem that the demoralized "captured east front" units draw from the standard German manpower pool. In fact, you're better off not using these units at all in many cases. In reality these units have been sent in first to soften up the enemy before the real attack could follow on. This was especially true in the use of German troops under Soviet command towards the end of the war. In addition, it would be an interesting mechanic if surrenders etc could help you add to this pool in the long run. Ie. no Soviet battalions with Germans until you have managed to create a Stalingrad type surrender.

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Post #: 1948
RE: Server Game - 5/2/2020 1:30:29 PM   
MrBlizzard


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quote:

ORIGINAL: robinsa


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBlizzard

In WITE2 the Finns no move line and no attack line will be the same as in WITE? will they surely move south if Germans conquer Leningrad?
In real life they were very reluctant in acting this way, would be nice to have some hazard they remain on old borders.
Thanks

As far as I understand the Finnish front will be abstracted, so I dont think this will be a problem.


I've understood that only northern tip (lapponia murmansk petsamo ) will be abstracted, the same as in WITE.
Karelia and Finns should be in game as far as I've understood

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RE: Server Game - 5/2/2020 1:39:36 PM   
Telemecus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBlizzard


quote:

ORIGINAL: robinsa


quote:

ORIGINAL: MrBlizzard

In WITE2 the Finns no move line and no attack line will be the same as in WITE? will they surely move south if Germans conquer Leningrad?
In real life they were very reluctant in acting this way, would be nice to have some hazard they remain on old borders.
Thanks

As far as I understand the Finnish front will be abstracted, so I dont think this will be a problem.


I've understood that only northern tip (lapponia murmansk petsamo ) will be abstracted, the same as in WITE.
Karelia and Finns should be in game as far as I've understood


No all of Finland is abstracted as a Theatre box although if the Germans got close enough it could be triggered as being on-map?

< Message edited by Telemecus -- 5/2/2020 1:40:22 PM >


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