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RE: WitE 2 - 10/8/2018 6:19:50 PM   
Red Lancer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: xhoel

Hmm I see. All the border means even the areas that are still playable in WitE?

Yes it does. The Karelian Isthmus is no longer 'on map'. We've tried to balance adding complexity (air and logistics spring to mind) with removing some areas where the effort is disproportionate. A very good example is the new Garrison Theatre Box - no longer does an axis player need to spend time and effort playing partisan wack-a-mole but there is still a need to devote troops to rear area security.



quote:

How does the new event system works? Is there any chance we get a sneak peak at that?

Hold on - let me grab some suitable screenshots and I'll do my best to explain how the system adds huge variability to the game.

_____________________________

John
WitE2 Asst Producer
WitE & WitW Dev

(in reply to xhoel)
Post #: 1531
RE: WitE 2 - 10/8/2018 6:28:56 PM   
Red Lancer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: martinsmit

Yes! Thank you
Did I understand you correctly, in a big campaign, Human vs Human, can optionally enabled battle for the Polar region?


Not quite - Human vs Human will use the Theatre Box too in the current GC41. For it to be happen we'd need to write a special Human only scenario - which is already possible. Usually official scenarios are always AI compatible but here is an area where I'd personally look to be different - especially a scenario that makes the Balkans on map too. The challenge is finding the time to do the work.


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WitE & WitW Dev

(in reply to martinsmit)
Post #: 1532
RE: WitE 2 - 10/8/2018 6:41:18 PM   
martinsmit

 

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quote:

Not quite - Human vs Human will use the Theatre Box too in the current GC41. For it to be happen we'd need to write a special Human only scenario - which is already possible. Usually official scenarios are always AI compatible but here is an area where I'd personally look to be different - especially a scenario that makes the Balkans on map too. The challenge is finding the time to do the work.

ok, i got it. Thank you very much for this game, we look forward to

(in reply to Red Lancer)
Post #: 1533
RE: WitE 2 - 10/8/2018 7:07:20 PM   
Red Lancer


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Xhoel asked for some detail on the Event System.

This is probably the biggest change in WitE2 from the earlier games of this lineage. For a scenario designer like me it adds the ability to introduce unparalleled flexibility and variation to the game whilst also giving the ability to keep a scenario on track.

The system allows a range of actions to be set ( e.g. units unfreezing, multipliers changing) to occurrences in the games (locations captured, time reached). An example is D-Day triggering increased combat intensity in the Western Theatre Box which will encourage the Axis player to send units West. The system allows a probability to be set too so occurrence is not scripted to a given turn.

As the recent discussion has focused on Finland the screenshot shows the events related to the Finland Campaign from the editor and shows how the ability to have the Finns participate on the map has not been lost.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

John
WitE2 Asst Producer
WitE & WitW Dev

(in reply to martinsmit)
Post #: 1534
RE: WitE 2 - 10/8/2018 8:13:25 PM   
Wixit

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Red Lancer

Haven't posted in a while but thought this might interest you all (and I don't remember mentioning it before).

WitE2 has a new pseudo-unit - the City Fort. The City Fort is a container that can hold large numbers of units in certain hex types to make them more defensible without the limitation of the three counter stacking limit.

Screenshot is from the new version of Vistula to Berlin and shows Budapest.







An interface question: the text of town names is somewhat difficult to read. Would it be possible to use a font with an outline?

(in reply to Red Lancer)
Post #: 1535
RE: WitE 2 - 10/8/2018 8:25:27 PM   
xhoel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Red Lancer


quote:

ORIGINAL: xhoel

Hmm I see. All the border means even the areas that are still playable in WitE?

Yes it does. The Karelian Isthmus is no longer 'on map'. We've tried to balance adding complexity (air and logistics spring to mind) with removing some areas where the effort is disproportionate. A very good example is the new Garrison Theatre Box - no longer does an axis player need to spend time and effort playing partisan wack-a-mole but there is still a need to devote troops to rear area security.



quote:

How does the new event system works? Is there any chance we get a sneak peak at that?

Hold on - let me grab some suitable screenshots and I'll do my best to explain how the system adds huge variability to the game.


I understand the logic behind it. I'm guessing the Garrison Theater Box will resemble the garrison requirements that are currently present in WitW?

Thanks for taking the time to do this, I appreciate it a lot.

_____________________________

AAR WITW: Gotterdammerung 43-45
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4490035
AAR WITE: A Clash of Titans 41-45
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4488465

(in reply to Red Lancer)
Post #: 1536
RE: WitE 2 - 10/8/2018 8:27:28 PM   
xhoel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Red Lancer

Xhoel asked for some detail on the Event System.

This is probably the biggest change in WitE2 from the earlier games of this lineage. For a scenario designer like me it adds the ability to introduce unparalleled flexibility and variation to the game whilst also giving the ability to keep a scenario on track.

The system allows a range of actions to be set ( e.g. units unfreezing, multipliers changing) to occurrences in the games (locations captured, time reached). An example is D-Day triggering increased combat intensity in the Western Theatre Box which will encourage the Axis player to send units West. The system allows a probability to be set too so occurrence is not scripted to a given turn.

As the recent discussion has focused on Finland the screenshot shows the events related to the Finland Campaign from the editor and shows how the ability to have the Finns participate on the map has not been lost.





The event system seems quite interesting and I have no doubt it will add more flavor and logic to why things are happening when they are. Keep up the good work guys!

_____________________________

AAR WITW: Gotterdammerung 43-45
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4490035
AAR WITE: A Clash of Titans 41-45
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4488465

(in reply to Red Lancer)
Post #: 1537
RE: WitE 2 - 10/9/2018 10:00:31 AM   
Red Lancer


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quote:

An interface question: the text of town names is somewhat difficult to read. Would it be possible to use a font with an outline?


The jpg screenshot does cause a degree of distortion. In game it is much clearer and there is the ability to change the font size and type to whatever suits you best.

_____________________________

John
WitE2 Asst Producer
WitE & WitW Dev

(in reply to xhoel)
Post #: 1538
RE: WitE 2 - 10/9/2018 10:13:01 AM   
Red Lancer


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quote:

I'm guessing the Garrison Theater Box will resemble the garrison requirements that are currently present in WitW?


Not really like WitW - it is even simpler as the units are moved off map to a Garrison Box where you need sufficient CV to suppress partisan activity.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

John
WitE2 Asst Producer
WitE & WitW Dev

(in reply to Red Lancer)
Post #: 1539
RE: WitE 2 - 10/9/2018 11:34:28 AM   
xhoel


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Red Lancer

quote:

I'm guessing the Garrison Theater Box will resemble the garrison requirements that are currently present in WitW?


Not really like WitW - it is even simpler as the units are moved off map to a Garrison Box where you need sufficient CV to suppress partisan activity.





That looks great. At least you won't have to micromanage everything and play wack a mole now. Can't wait to get my hands on the game!

_____________________________

AAR WITW: Gotterdammerung 43-45
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4490035
AAR WITE: A Clash of Titans 41-45
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4488465

(in reply to Red Lancer)
Post #: 1540
RE: WitE 2 - 10/14/2018 1:30:44 AM   
Mamluke


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Red Lancer

quote:

I'm guessing the Garrison Theater Box will resemble the garrison requirements that are currently present in WitW?


Not really like WitW - it is even simpler as the units are moved off map to a Garrison Box where you need sufficient CV to suppress partisan activity.





Do we still need to Garrison Soviet city hexes with on map units or is it no longer necessary?

(in reply to Red Lancer)
Post #: 1541
RE: WitE 2 - 10/14/2018 7:18:27 AM   
Red Lancer


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There in no need in WitE2 to garrison anywhere on the map which includes specific cities.

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Post #: 1542
RE: WitE 2 - 10/14/2018 10:13:22 AM   
daretti

 

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Will it be possible to fight also on the Western Front?

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Post #: 1543
RE: WitE 2 - 10/14/2018 11:23:08 AM   
Red Lancer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: daretti

Will it be possible to fight also on the Western Front?


Not directly. WitE2 abstracts the combat in other theatres into Theatre Boxes (TBs). The units are not On Map

The Axis TBs are: Western Europe, Norway, Italy, North Africa, Balkans, Axis Reserve, Soviet Garrison and Finland.
The Soviet TBs are: Northern Front, Transcaucasus, Soviet Reserves and Far East.

_____________________________

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WitE & WitW Dev

(in reply to daretti)
Post #: 1544
RE: WitE 2 - 10/14/2018 12:13:10 PM   
daretti

 

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that is, you will not be able to fight directly but you can decide which units to come east from west or send back to the west?

(in reply to Red Lancer)
Post #: 1545
RE: WitE 2 - 10/14/2018 12:19:34 PM   
Red Lancer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: daretti

that is, you will not be able to fight directly but you can decide which units to come east from west or send back to the west?


Yes - and the events system links to this too - so when an event like D-Day happens the factors in the Western Front Box change and you'll need either to react accordingly or accept the price of not doing so.

_____________________________

John
WitE2 Asst Producer
WitE & WitW Dev

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Post #: 1546
RE: WitE 2 - 10/14/2018 4:01:08 PM   
Mamluke


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Red Lancer


quote:

ORIGINAL: daretti

that is, you will not be able to fight directly but you can decide which units to come east from west or send back to the west?


Yes - and the events system links to this too - so when an event like D-Day happens the factors in the Western Front Box change and you'll need either to react accordingly or accept the price of not doing so.


what could be the price for not reacting to something like D-Day? losing Victory points?
or perhaps, later on some divisions can be taken away from the Axis with out the influence of the player?

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Post #: 1547
RE: WitE 2 - 10/14/2018 4:28:35 PM   
Red Lancer


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We are still deep in alpha so the usual caveats apply...

The current event triggers increased combat in the TB. This means the player needs to commit more troops or start losing...

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WitE & WitW Dev

(in reply to Mamluke)
Post #: 1548
RE: WitE 2 - 10/15/2018 1:08:08 AM   
Joel Billings


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Lack of required troops can cause loss of VPs, loss of Admin points, and/or speed up in future events in the same theater. Events can change level of combat in a Theater Box (TB), which impacts losses to the units in that TB. So if you don't garrison Western Europe adequately, D-Day will likely come sooner, and once D-day happens, combat and losses dramatically increase. Similar things going on in Italy and North Africa. We expect to have 2 ways to play the game, one where TBs are not under player control and movement of units between fronts is also not under player control. The other where players have limited control (limited in that you can't transfer units out if you fall under a minimum in the TB, and it will cost some APs to change a unit's transfer schedule). Still in alpha so still working on a lot of the details, but that's the basic outline.

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Post #: 1549
RE: WitE 2 - 10/15/2018 8:00:10 PM   
Mamluke


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

Lack of required troops can cause loss of VPs, loss of Admin points, and/or speed up in future events in the same theater. Events can change level of combat in a Theater Box (TB), which impacts losses to the units in that TB. So if you don't garrison Western Europe adequately, D-Day will likely come sooner, and once D-day happens, combat and losses dramatically increase. Similar things going on in Italy and North Africa. We expect to have 2 ways to play the game, one where TBs are not under player control and movement of units between fronts is also not under player control. The other where players have limited control (limited in that you can't transfer units out if you fall under a minimum in the TB, and it will cost some APs to change a unit's transfer schedule). Still in alpha so still working on a lot of the details, but that's the basic outline.


Alright! you guys seam to be going in the right direction!

Not to harsh of a penalty and still allows some flexibility. hope the limited control becomes the better option.

PS: have you though of a way to avoid the Axis player of for example: striping all Mountain units from other theaters in exchange for Infantry divisions?

I heard that in WITW, most Axis player would get the Mountain divisions station in the Balkans Theater box (and maybe remove most from the Eastern front?) to get a great advantage in Italy.

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Post #: 1550
RE: WitE 2 - 10/17/2018 2:24:34 PM   
Gripen

 

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This is all looking great so far, loving the event stuff :)

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RE: WitE 2 - 10/17/2018 3:39:03 PM   
Red Lancer


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quote:

PS: have you though of a way to avoid the Axis player of for example: striping all Mountain units from other theaters in exchange for Infantry divisions?

I heard that in WITW, most Axis player would get the Mountain divisions station in the Balkans Theater box (and maybe remove most from the Eastern front?) to get a great advantage in Italy.


Is this gamey? What's wrong with using the best troops in the right place?

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Post #: 1552
RE: WitE 2 - 10/17/2018 5:39:10 PM   
Searry

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Red Lancer

quote:

PS: have you though of a way to avoid the Axis player of for example: striping all Mountain units from other theaters in exchange for Infantry divisions?

I heard that in WITW, most Axis player would get the Mountain divisions station in the Balkans Theater box (and maybe remove most from the Eastern front?) to get a great advantage in Italy.


Is this gamey? What's wrong with using the best troops in the right place?

This is only with the EF box on which gives Axis more ways to fight the war in a way which could make more sense vs history.

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Post #: 1553
RE: WitE 2 - 10/18/2018 8:40:33 AM   
Skydream2016

 

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I think it s gamey because if game didnt simulate whole Europe you will take best unit to your possesion but if game simulate it like in HOI i dont belive you will not distribute it more like orginal OKW did. so if you are in charge in Italy every mountain unit will be in italy if you are in soviet union every mountain will be on eastern front beacause you know bonus is aplied only with speccific terrain or weather but for side fronts its aplied only basic CV or i am not right?
Its also not realistic because there was some rivaliry between theaters and it was almost impossible to have all elite unit stacioned under one specific theatre.

But in real world i think it can be tragic for germans if they dont have mountain units for example in Yougoslavia, Arctic front or in Italy..

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Post #: 1554
RE: WitE 2 - 10/18/2018 9:51:20 AM   
TheLysander


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Skydream2016

I think it s gamey because if game didnt simulate whole Europe you will take best unit to your possesion but if game simulate it like in HOI i dont belive you will not distribute it more like orginal OKW did. so if you are in charge in Italy every mountain unit will be in italy if you are in soviet union every mountain will be on eastern front beacause you know bonus is aplied only with speccific terrain or weather but for side fronts its aplied only basic CV or i am not right?
Its also not realistic because there was some rivaliry between theaters and it was almost impossible to have all elite unit stacioned under one specific theatre.

But in real world i think it can be tragic for germans if they dont have mountain units for example in Yougoslavia, Arctic front or in Italy..


I suppose that is a fair enough statement. However you need to think of it from the dev's point of view, how do you balance that then? You could limit the number of mountain divisions in a certain theatre, yet then you would also have to limit other units to avoid stacking using the same logic...

I believe that its not necessarily gamey, its a player who is acting as OKW using the best resources he has available for a given theater and seeing as how he also knows that the ET will not be won and that in 43 there isn't much need for specialised mountain warfare why not bring over the mountain divisions and put them in their optimal combat environment?

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Post #: 1555
RE: WitE 2 - 10/18/2018 10:23:20 AM   
Skydream2016

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheLysander


quote:

ORIGINAL: Skydream2016

I think it s gamey because if game didnt simulate whole Europe you will take best unit to your possesion but if game simulate it like in HOI i dont belive you will not distribute it more like orginal OKW did. so if you are in charge in Italy every mountain unit will be in italy if you are in soviet union every mountain will be on eastern front beacause you know bonus is aplied only with speccific terrain or weather but for side fronts its aplied only basic CV or i am not right?
Its also not realistic because there was some rivaliry between theaters and it was almost impossible to have all elite unit stacioned under one specific theatre.

But in real world i think it can be tragic for germans if they dont have mountain units for example in Yougoslavia, Arctic front or in Italy..


I suppose that is a fair enough statement. However you need to think of it from the dev's point of view, how do you balance that then? You could limit the number of mountain divisions in a certain theatre, yet then you would also have to limit other units to avoid stacking using the same logic...

I believe that its not necessarily gamey, its a player who is acting as OKW using the best resources he has available for a given theater and seeing as how he also knows that the ET will not be won and that in 43 there isn't much need for specialised mountain warfare why not bring over the mountain divisions and put them in their optimal combat environment?


i think its possible to give more CV value (so they are more effective as garrison or fighting force there) for mountain divison in specific unactive theatres (Arctic!, balcan,norway, maybe italy). and its also possible to pay more AP fore move "historicaly" local based mountain divisions like Handschar (it can be used also for other well known local based divisions). I dont want to offend nobody but only dont want unrealistic "simulation" of 2ww when in WITW are all (10 or how many they had mountain divisions) in italy and similar situation when you are change in east..its sounds to me gamey and unrealistic if thats no AP more expensive and i also thinks arctic or balkan is nearly impossible without no one of them in real history...

< Message edited by Skydream2016 -- 10/18/2018 10:24:02 AM >

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Post #: 1556
RE: WitE 2 - 10/18/2018 11:51:13 AM   
MarauderPL

 

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Yeah, the specialized division should give more garrison points than the plain ID in specific theatres. Just like a PzDiv will probably be worth more than a Inf Div. There could be some kind of diminishing returns implemented in this regard, but it up to the devs to do so.

(in reply to Skydream2016)
Post #: 1557
RE: WitE 2 - 10/18/2018 1:42:50 PM   
MrBlizzard


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Very nice fortress screen and events.

I agree with last posts.
It's understandable that a player would try to bring the best units to the theater he's actively playing (leaving the worst ones in other theater boxes).
But this would be very ahistoric. In France and in the West there should be at least some panzers to have mobile troops available.
And some mountain divisions in the theaters with mountains or polar climate.
One solution could be much more cost for moving these units out and/or a minimum of them to compulsory deploy (maybe varying them by years, the menace of an invasion in France was not the same in 1942 vs 1944)

< Message edited by MrBlizzard -- 10/18/2018 1:46:26 PM >


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Post #: 1558
RE: WitE 2 - 10/19/2018 4:58:43 PM   
Red Lancer


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The ideal solution is what you all suggest. However in the big scheme it's not currently a high priority as this is yet more rules and code. The current system is based on CV. It's not that bad.

- If you play against the AI then it's tied to history and the AI opponent can do what they like in the privacy of their own home.

- For H2H then there are always house rules. Not perfect but we are looking at only 14 Mountain Divisions whose influence is not pivotal.

_____________________________

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Post #: 1559
RE: WitE 2 - 10/19/2018 5:57:39 PM   
Searry

 

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I think it's absurd to think a game could be "realistic" in any way. The mountain divisions in the balkans are an obvious waste, just like Hitler pouring all his reinforcements in Tunisia when they couldn't even be supplied so the Luftwaffe transport force had to kill itself.

What sort of a gamer wants to make a choice where they kill half of their air transport fleet and still get the Italian-German African Army to surrender?

Doesn't make any sense to me.

< Message edited by Searry -- 10/19/2018 5:58:46 PM >

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Post #: 1560
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