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RE: WitE 2 - 3/18/2016 8:05:32 AM   
821Bobo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Red Lancer
Could I ask whether you have any info on Slovakian air and divisional insignia? If there are any I'd like to add them to the game.

Thanks.



Yes I have. Will check books and let you know.

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RE: WitE 2 - 3/18/2016 8:07:19 AM   
821Bobo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: chaos45

http://www.flamesofwar.com/Default.aspx?tabid=108&art_id=456

Has a symbol at the top of the page dont know if its the actual divisional symbol or not but the FoW crowd does some solid research at times.


That's current Coat of arms of Slovakia. During WW2 it was little bit different.

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Post #: 422
RE: WitE 2 - 3/18/2016 6:11:46 PM   
c00per


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MY WiTE2 request. Please allow the Russians the ability to move units say at least one hex prior to Axis turn one. If not all units then at least non front line units not adjacent to axis troops. The reason I ask for this is for Variability. No offence but the main beef I have with WiTE is the scalpel precision turn one ever axis player uses since it has been min maxed to death by the player community. This small change will at least keep the axis player from vomiting a pre destined turn that has been played out by the community for years.

< Message edited by c00per -- 3/21/2016 10:37:07 PM >

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Post #: 423
RE: WitE 2 - 3/19/2016 1:23:00 AM   
Wuffer

 

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+ 1

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RE: WitE 2 - 3/19/2016 12:28:37 PM   
swkuh

 

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Variability at start for both sides is a great idea, all scenarios.

Of course, you know what's coming, so prepare a plan.

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Post #: 425
RE: WitE 2 - 3/19/2016 1:24:06 PM   
Michael T


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Yes, if you want some variation for Russia only fair to allow the same for Germany. Be careful what you wish for.



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RE: WitE 2 - 3/20/2016 2:36:09 PM   
RedLancer


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We understand the desire to have a free setup but this is probably too big ask as the game must be AI playable. We have added code that sets soviet motorized units to reserve with 50MPs to increase reserve activation on T1 if the Axis player is human. As reserve activation is roll related this increases the variability of T1. Historically the Soviets had a big problem with command paralysis at the start of Barbarossa so things are not wholly unrealistic. In setting the T1 special rules we always try to make sure that history cannot be significantly bettered.

@ MichaelT - we are adding air divisions to simplify the air war and we have also added a number of GUI improvements too. There is also the Auto AD system for those who want very little to do with the air system. The combat engine code has also been changed and is likely to change again as testing matures.

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WitE & WitW Dev

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Post #: 427
RE: WitE 2 - 3/20/2016 11:58:51 PM   
Peltonx


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Your a newbie to be honest and guessing your going to be more interested in banding people for not sucking up to you.

Like 1.0 2by3 are all good old boys testing 2.0. 1.0 was FULL of exploits which the player base helped fix and you and 2by3 asked none of these people to help
test 2.0.

As we know WitW is full of exploits ( keep looking ) so we can explect 2.0 to have the same exploits?

just a guess - yes we can.

You and 2by3 will never find a single exploit as 2by3 never did for 3 yrs, until morveal asked the player base to help
find them.

You can't even find the simple fuel exploit in WitW.

You need people who can think out side the box and not a bunch of good old boys who have never been able to.

1.0 release = 2.0 release

Yup just a guess bro.

Actions speak louder then words.

MT, Sapper, TDV ect ect will have a field day with 2.0 they did with 1.0.

Question is when will they help fix the exploits - 3 yrs after release as with 1.0?

Just a guess RL

ignorance is bliss



phrase of ignorance



proverb



1.


if you do not know about something, you do not worry about it.

Guessing your not going to make the 75th release -

< Message edited by Pelton -- 3/21/2016 12:06:07 AM >


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Post #: 428
RE: WitE 2 - 3/21/2016 7:11:17 AM   
RedLancer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Pelton

Your a newbie to be honest and guessing your going to be more interested in banding people for not sucking up to you.

Like 1.0 2by3 are all good old boys testing 2.0. 1.0 was FULL of exploits which the player base helped fix and you and 2by3 asked none of these people to help
test 2.0.

As we know WitW is full of exploits ( keep looking ) so we can explect 2.0 to have the same exploits?

just a guess - yes we can.

You and 2by3 will never find a single exploit as 2by3 never did for 3 yrs, until morveal asked the player base to help
find them.

You can't even find the simple fuel exploit in WitW.

You need people who can think out side the box and not a bunch of good old boys who have never been able to.

1.0 release = 2.0 release

Yup just a guess bro.

Actions speak louder then words.

MT, Sapper, TDV ect ect will have a field day with 2.0 they did with 1.0.

Question is when will they help fix the exploits - 3 yrs after release as with 1.0?

Just a guess RL

ignorance is bliss



phrase of ignorance



proverb



1.


if you do not know about something, you do not worry about it.

Guessing your not going to make the 75th release -


Is this trolling? You know the forum rules.


_____________________________

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WitE2 Asst Producer
WitE & WitW Dev

(in reply to Peltonx)
Post #: 429
RE: WitE 2 - 3/21/2016 8:29:15 AM   
zakblood


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well that didn't last long, reported again

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Post #: 430
RE: WitE 2 - 3/21/2016 9:39:32 AM   
ericv

 

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Some people just can't help themselves apparently. Hope for him it's an age related issue ..

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RE: WitE 2 - 3/21/2016 10:15:27 AM   
Iorwerth

 

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Without knowing any of the history of Pelton and previous versions of these games etc, it does seem to an outsider like myself that amongst all his provocative dialogue he might make a valid point. If there are a number of players expert in finding exploits in these games, wouldn't it be useful to get them to test? Set a thief to catch a thief etc. Even the FBI get hackers they have caught to work for them.

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Post #: 432
RE: WitE 2 - 3/21/2016 1:35:35 PM   
ericv

 

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Why not introduce a point system.

One earns points for contributing to the quality of the game.
Having earned enough points, one earns the right to randomly insult people.


Sounds a bit euh... silly to me..

Just my personal opinion.

This comes however from someone who hasn't contributed anything at all. Back to the shadows, I know my place :-)

< Message edited by ericv -- 3/21/2016 1:37:18 PM >

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RE: WitE 2 - 3/21/2016 3:50:39 PM   
charlie0311

 

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My turn to say something dumb, @@#$%^^, not calling anybody dumb, myself only:)

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Post #: 434
RE: WitE 2 - 3/21/2016 4:00:39 PM   
zakblood


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might be now a good time to change topic back onto WITE2 then

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RE: WitE 2 - 3/21/2016 5:19:07 PM   
Aurelian

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: zakblood

might be now a good time to change topic back onto WITE2 then


OK :) How is that silly Lvov Opening going to be dealt with?

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Post #: 436
RE: WitE 2 - 3/21/2016 6:07:41 PM   
RedLancer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurelian

OK :) How is that silly Lvov Opening going to be dealt with?


1. Different Map
2. Different T1 rules for the south of the map.




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WitE2 Asst Producer
WitE & WitW Dev

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Post #: 437
RE: WitE 2 - 3/21/2016 6:44:18 PM   
Aurelian

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Red Lancer


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurelian

OK :) How is that silly Lvov Opening going to be dealt with?


1. Different Map
2. Different T1 rules for the south of the map.



Great :)

Are the Soviet Armies going to be formed, for lack of a better term, more historically?

What I mean, some examples:

1st Shock from 19th Army

2nd Shock from 26th Army

3rd Shock from 60th Army,

4th Shock from 27th Army

The 5th Shock had an interesting history. Formed from the 10th Reserve Army. Redesignated as HQ South-Eastern Front October 1942, with its forces transferred to 24th Army, reestablished from 63rd Army in November 1942, renamed 3rd Guards Army in December 1942, and that same month reformed from 4th Reserve Army

1st Tank from 38th Army

3rd Tank: Formed from 58th Army. Encircled and almost totally destroyed in March 1943, redesignated 57th Army in April 1943. Reformed May 1943 and redesignated 3rd Guards Tank Army on May 14, 1945



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Post #: 438
RE: WitE 2 - 3/21/2016 6:55:01 PM   
RedLancer


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Possibly but I'm not sure what Trey has planned for the Soviets.

We do now have the functionality to set renames in the editor which can be triggered by turn, or TOE change, or depletion, or destruction.

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WitE2 Asst Producer
WitE & WitW Dev

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Post #: 439
RE: WitE 2 - 3/21/2016 6:56:26 PM   
sillyflower


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurelian


OK :) How is that silly Lvov Opening going to be dealt with?


I assume you are talking about the standard version rather than mine . The trouble is that if you don't do it, you will not get very far in '41 because you won't kill enough communists in the first few turns.


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web exchange

Post: I am always fearful that when I put this game down on the table and people see the box-art they will think I am some kind of neo-Nazi

Reply: They already know you're a gamer. What other shame can possibly compare?

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RE: WitE 2 - 3/21/2016 7:00:50 PM   
Aurelian

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: sillyflower


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurelian


OK :) How is that silly Lvov Opening going to be dealt with?


I assume you are talking about the standard version rather than mine . The trouble is that if you don't do it, you will not get very far in '41 because you won't kill enough communists in the first few turns.





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RE: WitE 2 - 3/21/2016 7:08:35 PM   
Aurelian

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Red Lancer

Possibly but I'm not sure what Trey has planned for the Soviets.

We do now have the functionality to set renames in the editor which can be triggered by turn, or TOE change, or depletion, or destruction.


Good to hear.

I was thinking that by the late war, the Shock armies should have any bonus they might have either greatly reduced or gone all together.

They were intended to smash through stubborn defenses to clear the way for the mobile units. But late in the war (44 on), they became for the most part regular armies.

Trey would know better than me I would guess.

Oh, I'm not going to be upset if doesn't happen :)

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RE: WitE 2 - 3/21/2016 7:11:52 PM   
Wuffer

 

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Silly and Michael T,

obviously the first release was tested and balanced with this pocket since early beta, so this is the only and obvious way to start now.
We agree that GER needs a perfect start, otherwise all went "Schlieffen" - but I still think it could solved a little bit more elegant. Heeresmission Roumania for example was no way ready for the surprise attack.

The feeling is just not right, there must be psychological stress, fear, suprise, unknown things from the very first moment,as no plan survive the first contact. It's a wargame, not chess! In the end it's all a question of balancing, or maybe just an extra quarterturn or something else.
But I dislike opening theory in chess, too.

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RE: WitE 2 - 3/21/2016 7:27:01 PM   
Wuffer

 

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an example might be the original TOAW Korea Scenario by Norm K. himself, allthough the destruction of the ROK forces has a very fluid variability, North Korea could adapt and the total impact is in 95% neglectable

(by the way, Red, I hope you find some time to look at some other classics too, as even crap like HOI has some really great ideas and potential solutions)

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RE: WitE 2 - 3/21/2016 7:58:57 PM   
uw06670


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quote:

We have added code that sets soviet motorized units to reserve with 50MPs to increase reserve activation on T1 if the Axis player is human.


This is great to hear. While the command and control of the Soviet forces was a shambles, there were instances where counter attacks were attempted on June 23. Hopefully this new feature will give some more interesting variations in T1.

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RE: WitE 2 - 3/21/2016 9:54:35 PM   
Wuffer

 

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btw, a significant number (probably more than 5) rifle divisions in the Baltic destrict defected nearly immeadidly and united, as they were mainly former Latvian, Estonian and Lithuanian soldiers. These gaps were used for the Panzers.

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Post #: 446
RE: WitE 2 - 3/21/2016 10:25:58 PM   
Michael T


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Well IMO the game has always given the Soviets way too much latitude in C&C for the first few months. The Lvov opening compensated for that in a way. If you are now going to give all those Soviet troops back, then I trust, surely the devs have devised some way to give the Axis some other advantages. Just some ideas from other games I have played in no particular order:

Whenever a Soviet unit is selected to move and then moved there is a C&C check done, maybe the unit won't move at all, maybe it will go all the way, maybe some where in between.

The Soviet's are forced to attack with non isolated units (Ordered by Stalin) failure to do so incurs some penalty.

A random chance applied to all units that they will just 'freeze' for the turn.

Anyone who has read even an ounce of material on the early days knows these kind of things are simply not reflected in the game and they should be. It needs to happen.



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RE: WitE 2 - 3/21/2016 10:45:59 PM   
c00per


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Red Lancer

We have added code that sets soviet motorized units to reserve with 50MPs to increase reserve activation on T1 if the Axis player is human. As reserve activation is roll related this increases the variability of T1.


Based on the system now that will only help the axis as it pulls units towards the panzer armies. I would be afraid that the next system would only speed up the demise of motorized units with this approach. I am ignorant on computer programming, but could you not just toggle off AI with player versus player ? Also it seems my comments may have stirred people up, and that was not my intention. I enjoy these games and appreciate the hard work you put into them


< Message edited by c00per -- 3/22/2016 12:14:03 AM >

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RE: WitE 2 - 3/21/2016 11:38:37 PM   
uw06670


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c00per, stirring people up means that you are making an impact in the world :-)

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RE: WitE 2 - 3/22/2016 12:31:58 AM   
Joel Billings


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FYI, we are in very early alpha testing. Many new systems are still being designed and coded. Many changes to old systems (whether they be from WitE1 or WitW) still require much work. We brought in a few testers to help us start finding basic issues and to give Gary some early feedback on his early AI work. This product will go through many stages of testing with lots of testers. We love getting testers that push the envelope and show us problems to be worked on. Of course, the reality of a game this big and that takes months (years?) to play one game is that we can never get enough human testing before release. The vast majority of players don't push the system, and those that do, often take awhile before they get up to speed enough to figure out where the holes are. Testing isn't easy and isn't for everyone. Things change during the testing process so few games are "clean" tests. I can say that before release we will try to bring in talented gamers that can try to identify most of the issues before release. No doubt many items won't be found until the larger community is playing the game, but that doesn't mean that the game can't be enjoyed from day 1. Our goal is to release a game we're proud of and that can be enjoyed "out of the box".

I try to read this forum periodically. I want to thank Red Lancer for taking his time trying to answer questions and passing on info here re WitE2. For those that don't know it, John does it all. He has written scenarios, provided artwork, been a major contributor to improving the map data, and has tried to keep us honest with regards logistics (which he seems to know an awful lot about from his day job). He wrote the player's handbook for WitW (and created the one-page guides), and helps out in a million other ways I haven't mentioned. Thanks John.

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