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60,000 saiga antelope died - 9/5/2015 5:07:40 AM   
Zap


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In the month ofMay in Kazakhstan. In the period of 4 days 60,000 Saiga Antelope died of a Bacteria.
That is a significant number. I would usually, not give this kind of story too much thought but the number was significant.

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RE: 60,000 saiga antelope died - 9/5/2015 5:13:20 AM   
warspite1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zap

In the month ofMay in Kazakhstan. In the period of 4 days 60,000 Saiga Antelope died of a Bacteria.
That is a significant number. I would usually, not give this kind of story too much thought but the number was significant.
warspite1

According to the Guardian its now 134,000 and that is half the global population.

http://www.theguardian.com/science/animal-magic/2015/jun/12/134000-saiga-antelope-dead-in-two-weeks-what-is-the-probable-cause


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RE: 60,000 saiga antelope died - 9/6/2015 8:35:48 PM   
rhondabrwn


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Sobering

All life is vulnerable and way too many species are dying off (plant and animal).

Maybe Mother Earth is cleansing itself for a "restart" ?

Mankind is just as vulnerable to a new plague

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My old Piczo site seems to be gone, so no more Navajo Nation pics :(

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RE: 60,000 saiga antelope died - 9/6/2015 11:03:04 PM   
Zap


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rhondabrwn

Sobering

All life is vulnerable and way too many species are dying off (plant and animal).

Maybe Mother Earth is cleansing itself for a "restart" ?

Mankind is just as vulnerable to a new plague


Sobering is the right word. Nature does its thing and poof! they're gone. I can imagine the story probably struck you deeply with all the animals you care for.

< Message edited by Zap -- 9/7/2015 12:05:03 AM >


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RE: 60,000 saiga antelope died - 9/6/2015 11:53:29 PM   
Terminus


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Calm down a bit, maybe? The story says this is not unusual.

We've got more pressing matters to attend to as a species.

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RE: 60,000 saiga antelope died - 9/8/2015 10:04:32 AM   
Agathosdaimon


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it doesnt sound too common, if it is a result of them having to mover due to climate change then it is a symptom indeed of something that does matter to us all.

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RE: 60,000 saiga antelope died - 9/8/2015 10:23:50 AM   
Zap


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Agathosdaimon

it doesnt sound too common, if it is a result of them having to mover due to climate change then it is a symptom indeed of something that does matter to us all.


They died from a bacteria. Nothing to do with global warming

< Message edited by Zap -- 9/8/2015 12:00:38 PM >


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RE: 60,000 saiga antelope died - 9/8/2015 12:14:27 PM   
Jagdtiger14


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Agathosdaimon: "Global Warming"?...er...now "Climate Change"...really??? I hear in the capitol city Almaty the climate is changing anywhere from 16.3C to 11.5C today. Maybe you could tell me what "climate holding steady" would have been best for these antelope? Perhaps man can do something about the sun burning up so much hydrogen?...or steady the earth on a 0 degree axis instead of 23?

Hook, line, and sinker eh?

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RE: 60,000 saiga antelope died - 9/9/2015 1:54:14 AM   
Agathosdaimon


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i meant that as a possible and the effects are not always direct - the article mentioned that they were having to mover further north than normal, which sounded more indicative of climate change. But even if it is just a bacteria than it is of course worth investigating as to how some such bacteria could cause so much death - certainly it couldnt be too common a bacteria to cause this and so how this comes about warrants investigation.

I think there are global knock on effects going on everywhere - it seems to be a case of basic cause and effect. I dont think taking just a look at the temperature in a city on one day does much for any kind of longitudinal view.


< Message edited by Agathosdaimon -- 9/9/2015 2:57:41 AM >

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RE: 60,000 saiga antelope died - 9/9/2015 2:20:25 AM   
Jagdtiger14


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Guy, I dont think you see my point. Anyway...the Earth is changing every day. "Snowball Earth" has occurred at least twice, and the Earth was steamy hot many times (no polar ice caps). No more Wooly Mammoths. Perhaps these antelope will go bye bye as well (yes, its bacteria in this story), and perhaps a few will survive in zoos. If we don't find a way off this planet some day we'll die off as well (All of Earth's surface H2O will evaporate in about a billion years due to the age of the Sun). Climate change is natural. The most adaptable species survive...possibly cockroaches will be the last Earthlings.

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Conflict with the unexpected: two qualities are indispensable; first, an intellect which, even in the midst of this obscurity, is not without some traces of inner light which lead to the truth; second, the courage to follow this faint light. KvC

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RE: 60,000 saiga antelope died - 9/9/2015 4:42:06 AM   
Agathosdaimon


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oh yeah, i understand that point, i think though its question of how we use the resources now, we can prolong or hasten things as it is now in ability to change fundamentally our environment -look at Louisiana and how the vast lines carved through the mangrove areas by oil comapnies from the sea inwards has poured salt water into the fresh water areas and killed off alot of the natural enivronment and removed the natural barriers to the sea putting more and more of that state in the US underwater and whatever further destruction and availability of resources it does and then to the damming of rivers the world over and the hollowing out of the earth for resources, the fracking chemicals being dumped into water supplies. and even recently int he us their congress passed a bill to allow the dumping of coal ash into water supplies too - coal ash being not only full of arsenic and selenium and other dangerous materials but also radioactive, and this on top of corporates pushing to remove any accountability through regulation - well all of it does not end in a good place. so is it a question that this is part of our temporary time and we hasten our demise in a rather sickly, violent way or do we act with some conscience for ourselves and our children and their children etc. - There are my fears and really wish it didnt seem like this all happening but i dont hear anything good ever about the state of the planets ecosystems.

if we cant reverse the path we are on now then i hope we can migrate over into being conscious robots who then in turn survive perhaps - maybe thats the next step of our evolution?

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RE: 60,000 saiga antelope died - 9/9/2015 5:04:07 AM   
rhondabrwn


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Agathosdaimon

oh yeah, i understand that point, i think though its question of how we use the resources now, we can prolong or hasten things as it is now in ability to change fundamentally our environment -look at Louisiana and how the vast lines carved through the mangrove areas by oil comapnies from the sea inwards has poured salt water into the fresh water areas and killed off alot of the natural enivronment and removed the natural barriers to the sea putting more and more of that state in the US underwater and whatever further destruction and availability of resources it does and then to the damming of rivers the world over and the hollowing out of the earth for resources, the fracking chemicals being dumped into water supplies. and even recently int he us their congress passed a bill to allow the dumping of coal ash into water supplies too - coal ash being not only full of arsenic and selenium and other dangerous materials but also radioactive, and this on top of corporates pushing to remove any accountability through regulation - well all of it does not end in a good place. so is it a question that this is part of our temporary time and we hasten our demise in a rather sickly, violent way or do we act with some conscience for ourselves and our children and their children etc. - There are my fears and really wish it didnt seem like this all happening but i dont hear anything good ever about the state of the planets ecosystems.

if we cant reverse the path we are on now then i hope we can migrate over into being conscious robots who then in turn survive perhaps - maybe thats the next step of our evolution?



Well said

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My old Piczo site seems to be gone, so no more Navajo Nation pics :(

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RE: 60,000 saiga antelope died - 9/9/2015 12:39:05 PM   
Jagdtiger14


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rhondabrwn: Well said?...really??? That was all gibberish. Hurricanes carve out mangrove areas...how do we stop them? FYI: the Louisiana Mississippi delta area is constantly changing...barriers are put up naturally and removed naturally...fresh water constantly pours in from the river. The parts that are underwater that are of concern is New Orleans...and concern over the dikes preventing it from flooding as it did during Katrina. New Orleans is a poorly planned city that should not exist where it is, or at least it should be limited as to its residential areas...ie, the city had a golden opportunity to eliminate undesirable outlying neighborhoods and make itself much smaller...but smaller is not natural to government.

Damming of rivers? Assuming you are pro-clean energy (how could I have guessed?)...why would you be against hydro-electric power? Reducing that kind of power would increase the need for more of the kinds of power I assume you find undesirable (oil, coal, and another clean energy: nuclear).

Hollowing out the Earth for resources? Then how do we get at those resources? You wouldn't be typing on your computer today if we didn't.

Fracking is a wonderful invention! Thank God for it! As for fracking chemicals being dumped into water supplies...do you believe in gravity? If so, you would know that its not possible...unless an evil energy corporation decided against their profit motive to go ahead and spill some purposefully on the way down...fracking occurs way down by the way...far, far below the water table. Water supplies are contaminated from the surface, not from fracking far below the water table.

US Congress: the bill you might be referring to is H.R. 1734. I suggest you read it.

So you are saying that corporations and companies should be in favor of more regulation and costs of doing business?...they should push for more regulations on them, because that's good for their business? Do you have a job?

The reason you don't hear anything good about the state of the planets eco-systems might be because of the people you listen to?

Now that last sentence of yours was well said: 50 years from now I would love to turn myself into a conscious "robot"...and I think that is our next step.

_____________________________

Conflict with the unexpected: two qualities are indispensable; first, an intellect which, even in the midst of this obscurity, is not without some traces of inner light which lead to the truth; second, the courage to follow this faint light. KvC

(in reply to rhondabrwn)
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RE: 60,000 saiga antelope died - 9/10/2015 12:20:40 AM   
rhondabrwn


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From: Snowflake, Arizona
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jagdtiger14

rhondabrwn: Well said?...really??? That was all gibberish. Hurricanes carve out mangrove areas...how do we stop them? FYI: the Louisiana Mississippi delta area is constantly changing...barriers are put up naturally and removed naturally...fresh water constantly pours in from the river. The parts that are underwater that are of concern is New Orleans...and concern over the dikes preventing it from flooding as it did during Katrina. New Orleans is a poorly planned city that should not exist where it is, or at least it should be limited as to its residential areas...ie, the city had a golden opportunity to eliminate undesirable outlying neighborhoods and make itself much smaller...but smaller is not natural to government.

Damming of rivers? Assuming you are pro-clean energy (how could I have guessed?)...why would you be against hydro-electric power? Reducing that kind of power would increase the need for more of the kinds of power I assume you find undesirable (oil, coal, and another clean energy: nuclear).

Hollowing out the Earth for resources? Then how do we get at those resources? You wouldn't be typing on your computer today if we didn't.

Fracking is a wonderful invention! Thank God for it! As for fracking chemicals being dumped into water supplies...do you believe in gravity? If so, you would know that its not possible...unless an evil energy corporation decided against their profit motive to go ahead and spill some purposefully on the way down...fracking occurs way down by the way...far, far below the water table. Water supplies are contaminated from the surface, not from fracking far below the water table.

US Congress: the bill you might be referring to is H.R. 1734. I suggest you read it.

So you are saying that corporations and companies should be in favor of more regulation and costs of doing business?...they should push for more regulations on them, because that's good for their business? Do you have a job?

The reason you don't hear anything good about the state of the planets eco-systems might be because of the people you listen to?

Now that last sentence of yours was well said: 50 years from now I would love to turn myself into a conscious "robot"...and I think that is our next step.


Well said!

I'm an equal opportunity seeker of my 5th star

Seriously, good points made on both sides... pointing to the complexity of the issues facing us. It isn't one sided by any means, yet to dismiss arguments for caution and conservation as we exploit the planet is not a good idea either.

Example: I'm not an expert on fracking, but I don't trust a capitalist not to pump fracking waste into shallow wells (contaminating the water table) to avoid the cost of deep drilling and make more profit. That's why we need sensible regulation, strongly enforced.

Just my opinion, of course, as I'll be dead before the consequences materialize. Kind of a shame, I won't be around for the "I told you so's"


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Love & Peace,

Far Dareis Mai

My old Piczo site seems to be gone, so no more Navajo Nation pics :(

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RE: 60,000 saiga antelope died - 9/10/2015 2:58:52 AM   
Agathosdaimon


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I am pretty sure Fracking is not a good thing - not only is it seeming going to quite desperate lenghts to get blood from stones, not just water tables are affected but also the air quality around them and is it any surprise that some fracking ceo recently was up in arms becaue he didnt want a fracking well near his home, though there is no care for putting them next to the general population. Fracking and tar sands seem to be the most poisonous and detrimaental ways to be extracting oil -the direction of renewable energy is far better for everyone, from innovations in wind farms to solar (whatever happened to the geothermal option too)

The mangrove areas were protecting against hurricane flooding, and if it were hurricanes then they would have been long destroyed but now it is the pouring in of salt water and i imagine the increasing number of hurricanes
Regarding the Louisiana swamps - i saw this recently https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZicy75k9Ic&list=PLw613M86o5o7q1cjb26MfCgdxJtshvRZ-&index=16 from VICE News on the problem - this is what kind of put it fresh in mind. I dont really think the issue is gibberish.
Also, yes we have extracted resources unsustainably from the earht, but there is no reason for this to be the only way for us to meet energy needs going into the future.

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RE: 60,000 saiga antelope died - 9/10/2015 1:37:05 PM   
JosephM

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rhondabrwn

Sobering

All life is vulnerable and way too many species are dying off (plant and animal).

Maybe Mother Earth is cleansing itself for a "restart" ?

Mankind is just as vulnerable to a new plague


I did a Zoology degree, so to chime in here. It is more likely that this species has a genetic bottleneck, so even if they have a large population, if there is not enough generic diversity then one plague can wipe out a large portion of the species. The same concern exists with Cheetahs. Their numbers are recovering, but they have such low diversity that one disease could cause the entire species to go extinct.

But Humans don't have the same problem. We have one of the greatest genomic variations of any species, so to wipe us out in the same way would involve a brand new horrific disease.

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RE: 60,000 saiga antelope died - 9/10/2015 3:26:18 PM   
Lecivius


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Joseph M


quote:

ORIGINAL: rhondabrwn

Sobering

All life is vulnerable and way too many species are dying off (plant and animal).

Maybe Mother Earth is cleansing itself for a "restart" ?

Mankind is just as vulnerable to a new plague



I did a Zoology degree, so to chime in here. It is more likely that this species has a genetic bottleneck, so even if they have a large population, if there is not enough generic diversity then one plague can wipe out a large portion of the species. The same concern exists with Cheetahs. Their numbers are recovering, but they have such low diversity that one disease could cause the entire species to go extinct.

But Humans don't have the same problem. We have one of the greatest genomic variations of any species, so to wipe us out in the same way would involve a brand new horrific disease.




Or perhaps resurrect an old one? I am reading where long dead viruses (if those can actually be considered 'dead') are being revived in Siberia due to warming and resource exploration. It is not to far fetched to see one of these complex viruses wiping out something, be it humans, or even bees, that cause a domino effect to re-align life on this bubble we call Earth.

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RE: 60,000 saiga antelope died - 9/15/2015 3:27:37 PM   
JosephM

 

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Maybe. An virus which has not been around for a while would be unlikely to kill the species, as the theory is that at least some genetic resistance would have been passed on through the generations (although it would devastate the species). Whale or Bat Flu are said to be dangerous, as although we as a species have had influenza viruses before those are relatively novel. Not like these antelopes.

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RE: 60,000 saiga antelope died - 9/15/2015 4:19:12 PM   
Gilmer


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I take a pragmatic view of all of this. If this is what happens to the human race, well, it was a good ride. We'll survive in some form.

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