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RE: Oh, Canada! - 8/29/2015 6:11:06 PM   
vicberg

 

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What is throwing me for a loop is that the Lily IIb has the same stats as IIa, which is a level bomber. Is the IIb an anti-ship plane?

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RE: Oh, Canada! - 8/29/2015 6:18:45 PM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: vicberg

What is throwing me for a loop is that the Lily IIb has the same stats as IIa, which is a level bomber. Is the IIb an anti-ship plane?


IIb is a little worse than the IIa...half the bombload; but it is a dive bomber. Small bombs, but good for unarmored flight decks, and any ship below a BB.



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RE: Oh, Canada! - 8/29/2015 7:03:52 PM   
Lowpe


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Ashore, no losses.




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RE: Oh, Canada! - 8/29/2015 7:13:16 PM   
witpqs


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Are you going for Vancouver, too?

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RE: Oh, Canada! - 8/29/2015 7:19:49 PM   
Lowpe


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The Tuna. Yesterday they torpedoed an AK. Today they had two shots, the first at a destroyer that missed, and this misfire.

A pretty good Captain and Crew I guess.




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RE: Oh, Canada! - 8/29/2015 7:21:12 PM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

Are you going for Vancouver, too?


I doubt that I can, he probably will have two divisions or more there. There is no restriction in transferring American troops to Canada.

But I will get some recon up, it might be a possibility if I can suppress Victoria.

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RE: Oh, Canada! - 8/29/2015 7:26:25 PM   
Lokasenna


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe


quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

Are you going for Vancouver, too?


I doubt that I can, he probably will have two divisions or more there. There is no restriction in transferring American troops to Canada.

But I will get some recon up, it might be a possibility if I can suppress Victoria.



Put me down for "I doubt you can do that" - also, it's on the main rail and road lines with CONUS. Fat chance of getting Vancouver because you have to take Victoria first or the CD guns will sink you in the strait. And that triggers emergency reinforcements...

Here's an interesting thought or two, though...


Seattle isn't the only place in CONUS with aircraft industry. San Diego and LA have some also, IIRC. If you are fighting him in the air up near Seattle, it may be possible for you to do a quick in-and-out strike on either of those other 2 cities. However, flak will be murderous so I would be setting my DBs at 16K (so they don't dive) and my TBs at whatever is high enough to avoid the worst of the flak... you might not get enough hits to be worth it, but it's worth thinking about, IMO.


Will you be going for Prince Rupert? I'd be looking at whichever is the largest port on mainland Canada - all of the Canadian Supplies and Fuel will be flowing there. I think that might be Prince Rupert, even at game's start.

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RE: Oh, Canada! - 8/29/2015 7:27:15 PM   
Lowpe


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Alaska has started too.




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RE: Oh, Canada! - 8/29/2015 7:28:43 PM   
Lokasenna


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

For bombers: I would add the Lilly IIb/IIc line. Quite a few Army squadrons upgrade here, and it is a worthwhile long strike plane thru 43. Getting it a few months early might help against a late Allied push to avoid autovictory, or more likely, just a plane that can hit Fletchers.




FYI, in my game nothing seems to upgrade to the Lily-IIc. Even with PDU On, it's not in most of my lists for units that can upgrade to the -IIb. It's more than mildly frustrating. Unsure if it is a DB error in stock Scen 2, but I'd check yours... I have units that say, in Tracker, that they can upgrade to the -IIc but when I look in game the airframe isn't even on the list of eligible planes to upgrade to.

Extremely annoying.

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RE: Oh, Canada! - 8/29/2015 7:33:39 PM   
Lowpe


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I tried a quick grab of Malang, should waited for more transports as he held me off. 1000 AV arriving in Soerabaja tomorrow.




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RE: Oh, Canada! - 8/29/2015 7:34:24 PM   
Lokasenna


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

I tried a quick grab of Malang, should waited for more transports as he held me off. 1000 AV arriving in Soerabaja tomorrow.





Disagree, you did fine here. You just prevented his troops from fleeing Soerabaja in any direction other than west.

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RE: Oh, Canada! - 8/29/2015 7:35:45 PM   
Lowpe


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Indian invasion away...Air HQ supporting from Rangoon and Magwe.






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RE: Oh, Canada! - 8/29/2015 7:36:41 PM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Disagree, you did fine here. You just prevented his troops from fleeing Soerabaja in any direction other than west.


Was my intent.


< Message edited by Lowpe -- 8/29/2015 8:36:56 PM >

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RE: Oh, Canada! - 8/29/2015 7:37:53 PM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

For bombers: I would add the Lilly IIb/IIc line. Quite a few Army squadrons upgrade here, and it is a worthwhile long strike plane thru 43. Getting it a few months early might help against a late Allied push to avoid autovictory, or more likely, just a plane that can hit Fletchers.




FYI, in my game nothing seems to upgrade to the Lily-IIc. Even with PDU On, it's not in most of my lists for units that can upgrade to the -IIb. It's more than mildly frustrating. Unsure if it is a DB error in stock Scen 2, but I'd check yours... I have units that say, in Tracker, that they can upgrade to the -IIc but when I look in game the airframe isn't even on the list of eligible planes to upgrade to.

Extremely annoying.


I have run into that problem elsewhere...tracker not always reliable on upgrades.

A little research finds 2 squadrons that go IIc but 11 that can go IIb. I think the only difference is an extra machine gun...haven't looked in a long time.


< Message edited by Lowpe -- 8/29/2015 8:53:33 PM >

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RE: Oh, Canada! - 8/29/2015 10:10:51 PM   
Lowpe


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Attempting two Alaskan bases today, more in the SRA, lots of little fast transports securing dot bases.

Valdez will be mine, and with it the long road to Fairbanks. If I get Whittier tomorrow, that will doom Seward and Anchorage without having to brave the CD guns there.

I have sucked Balikpapen dry...shipping all fuel and oil from the SRA to Hong Kong (nothing gets picked up or dropped off at Singers). Then transporting it from a built up Fusan to Honshu.

Sweeping Ledo with 42 Oscars. This marks the beginning of my aggressive sweeping program.

Another good attack on the Ankang road yesterday...


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RE: Oh, Canada! - 8/30/2015 12:03:42 PM   
Lowpe


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Whittier falls freeing the way for an unobstructed unloading of the 21st Division which will then seize Anchorage. Troops enroute to land at Valdez for the long march north to Fairbanks.

After Anchorage, we will move overland to Seward. We will let Kodiak wither for a while before hitting it.




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RE: Oh, Canada! - 8/30/2015 12:28:44 PM   
Lowpe


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The Tuna sticks around in shallow waters and takes many hits including one direct hit, it is listed as sunk, but I have my doubts.

But you never know, as the airplanes do pretty good work at threatening the Allied sub hoard.




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RE: Oh, Canada! - 8/30/2015 2:39:23 PM   
Lowpe


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March 1942

Soerabaja falls to the first attack. Jocke had mentioned he made his big stand at Batavia, and there was only 62 guns showing up in defense according to recon, so I simply attacked first. Without all that information, I might have bombarded first.

I screwed up a little in Canada, the KB followed a task force out and Jocke was rewarded with a shot form a Sboat on a fleet carrier...it missed, but still scary.

Now that the KB is out, they might pursue some adventures on the west coast. The Allied carriers I think are in Sydney. There seems to be a lot of shipping in Sydney and Auckland.

The Americans double the number of units at Anchorage, to 8. The 21st Division is unloading at Whittier, another division is coming (if needed for Anchorage, but its main target is Fairbanks) plus three artillery units and some engineering units.

Coastal invasions along the Canadian Islands are a go...






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< Message edited by Lowpe -- 8/30/2015 3:40:16 PM >

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RE: Oh, Canada! - 8/30/2015 2:43:30 PM   
Lowpe


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Curious event today: 12 Wildebeast torpedo bombers are destroyed by Ops losses today.


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RE: Oh, Canada! - 8/30/2015 3:38:44 PM   
Lowpe


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Should be a fun turn -- invading Geraldtown (northern Oz); India; Aliford Bay.

Sending out some surface raiders, sent some down Noumea way, hoping to pull the Allied carriers up north from Sydney in range of Betties and Nells.

I have some raiders heading for off the coast of LA.

100 Zeroes at Coal Harbor, runway 50 percent to level 2. Bombarding Kodiak....

Moving forward, now the question is what to do with the 2 divisions plus artillery on Java. Perth? Darwin? Or back to Luzon? India? Or the totally unexpected, eastern Oz for a strategic bombing campaign there...timing is getting tight.

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RE: Oh, Canada! - 8/30/2015 3:59:33 PM   
mind_messing

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Should be a fun turn -- invading Geraldtown (northern Oz); India; Aliford Bay.

Sending out some surface raiders, sent some down Noumea way, hoping to pull the Allied carriers up north from Sydney in range of Betties and Nells.

I have some raiders heading for off the coast of LA.

100 Zeroes at Coal Harbor, runway 50 percent to level 2. Bombarding Kodiak....

Moving forward, now the question is what to do with the 2 divisions plus artillery on Java. Perth? Darwin? Or back to Luzon? India? Or the totally unexpected, eastern Oz for a strategic bombing campaign there...timing is getting tight.


Darwin.

Anything else is a bridge too far for you at this point. Take Darwin and the coastal bases and start to build them up to deny the Allies an early start on the DEI. After Darwin falls, pull back and start consolidating your position on Luzon. After that, I'd consider sending the troops to China to effect the conquest of that country as well.

You've already taken the VP's that are "hard to get" (namely Pearl), so I'd consider harvesting the low-hanging fruits (Darwin, Luzon, China).

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RE: Oh, Canada! - 8/30/2015 4:14:00 PM   
Lowpe


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You gotta think the Allies are looking at an early SRA attack of some flavor. Intact British fleet; oil; etc. Harder to defend, but also kind of hard to attack.




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RE: Oh, Canada! - 8/30/2015 4:25:55 PM   
mind_messing

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

You gotta think the Allies are looking at an early SRA attack of some flavor. Intact British fleet; oil; etc. Harder to defend, but also kind of hard to attack.


Considering how Allied options on the eastern side of the map are now limited in the extreme, I'd be looking to see the Allied countermoves coming from the western portion of the map.

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RE: Oh, Canada! - 8/30/2015 5:03:27 PM   
Lowpe


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Chittagong invasion goes off without a hitch. Depending upon forts level should grab it today, maybe tomorrow.

Geraldtown invaded; never even spotted.

Another sub gets an attack on an AO, but no damage. Need to work a little more on this.

Aliford Bay invaded, should take it tomorrow.

Fun and games in 1942. What joy!


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RE: Oh, Canada! - 8/30/2015 6:39:05 PM   
Lokasenna


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Curious event today: 12 Wildebeast torpedo bombers are destroyed by Ops losses today.




My best guess is a fragment in the DEI - did you see any destroyed when Soerabaja fell? If so, it could've been a unit "parent" and the fragment stuck elsewhere.

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RE: Oh, Canada! - 8/30/2015 6:39:32 PM   
Lokasenna


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Should be a fun turn -- invading Geraldtown (northern Oz); India; Aliford Bay.

Sending out some surface raiders, sent some down Noumea way, hoping to pull the Allied carriers up north from Sydney in range of Betties and Nells.

I have some raiders heading for off the coast of LA.

100 Zeroes at Coal Harbor, runway 50 percent to level 2. Bombarding Kodiak....

Moving forward, now the question is what to do with the 2 divisions plus artillery on Java. Perth? Darwin? Or back to Luzon? India? Or the totally unexpected, eastern Oz for a strategic bombing campaign there...timing is getting tight.


Darwin.

Anything else is a bridge too far for you at this point. Take Darwin and the coastal bases and start to build them up to deny the Allies an early start on the DEI. After Darwin falls, pull back and start consolidating your position on Luzon. After that, I'd consider sending the troops to China to effect the conquest of that country as well.

You've already taken the VP's that are "hard to get" (namely Pearl), so I'd consider harvesting the low-hanging fruits (Darwin, Luzon, China).


Perth hangs pretty low, IMO.

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RE: Oh, Canada! - 8/30/2015 6:59:15 PM   
Lowpe


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March 10, 1942

India!




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RE: Oh, Canada! - 8/31/2015 11:53:42 PM   
Lowpe


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This day Jocke should feel a little good, he sweeps Chittagong and gets good results against some Zeroes there.

However, we manage to land the air support and plentiful supply, there are 11+ units here now, and we will sweep Calcutta and have a hefty CAP with some radar even.

Crossing at Paoshan gets messed up, all the infantry (100 prep plus a HQ at 100) falls 1 mile short from entering, but the engineers and artillery enter and get repulsed. Lose 30 engineer squads. Ouch.

-------

PDU OFF notes: 1 George Sentai and 1 Jack Sentai for most of 43 (I think there are only 4 Jack sentai for the whole game so the two r&d factories for them won't really do much good). But I can get 7 Frank A in 43, and in this mod they start production in 1/44. In addition, there are 5-6 Frank B squadrons as soon as 43 but they would be tough accelerate earlier than 6/44. However, you can get 12 Frank R squadrons in 43. Easier to get them by bumping the Frank A r&d factories to them.

So it seems to me the Frank A model is perhaps the most important model to heavily research after the Oscar Line. Shooting to get it six months early should be a very high priority and with a strong enough focus you can probably really accelerate the Frank R too and what is better actually have a decent number of squadrons flying them.

Tojo IIa has 3 sentai, IIb has 6, and IIc has 8 sentai in play for 43. That is not too shabby either...and some of the IIc upgrade to the Frank A.

I am looking at bombers to r&d, and I am hard pressed to really find any other than the carrier planes. Everything else should be focused on Zero, Oscar, Frank, Tojo and a little Tony.

Night fighters are an ungodly mess. No Myrt. Only two small squadrons of Iriving for late 43. However Nick D does have 3 big sentai but how to get it early? Defending against night bombing is going to be really tough because of limited squadrons. And we know Jocke loves night bombing.





< Message edited by Lowpe -- 9/1/2015 1:57:33 AM >

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RE: Oh, Canada! - 9/1/2015 1:49:14 AM   
PaxMondo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe


PDU OFF notes: 1 George Sentai and 1 Jack Sentai for most of 43 (I think there are only 4 Jack sentai for the whole game so the two r&d factories for them won't really do much good). But I can get 7 Frank A in 43, and in this mod they start production in 1/44. In addition, there are 5-6 Frank B squadrons as soon as 43 but they would be tough accelerate earlier than 6/44. However, you can get 12 Frank R squadrons in 43. Easier to get them by bumping the Frank A r&d factories to them.

So it seems to me the Frank A model is perhaps the most important model to heavily research after the Oscar Line. Shooting to get it six months early should be a very high priority and with a strong enough focus you can probably really accelerate the Frank R too and what is better actually have a decent number of squadrons flying them.

Tojo IIa has 3 sentai, IIb has 6, and IIc has 8 sentai in play for 43. That is not too shabby either...and some of the IIc upgrade to the Frank A.

I am looking at bombers to r&d, and I am hard pressed to really find any other than the carrier planes. Everything else should be focused on Zero, Oscar, Frank, Tojo and a little Tony.

Night fighters are an ungodly mess. No Myrt. Only two small squadrons of Iriving for late 43. However Nick D does have 3 big sentai but how to get it early? Defending against night bombing is going to be really tough because of limited squadrons. And we know Jocke loves night bombing.


You know hard to say. Let me play Devil's Advocate ... you know it is what I do best.

Frank is a defensive fighter, unless this scen has increased the range. With your current position, will you have handed over initiative to the allies in mid 43? If so why? Think this through with me here a bit.
You have PH and the Aleutians. He is completely stalled in the North and Central Pacific. If you are able to take the rich area of India (everything South of Delhi, and why wouldn't you) for 12 months, that will net you in supply and HI about 25000 1E AC equivalents.
That is a HUGE number of aircraft. He can't compete against those numbers until '45. That means you could hold the initiative through '43 easily and into '44. Think about that. All of China is yours. Most of India. Maybe remove NZ and large portions of OZ. Remember, no china and you have a LOT of AV to to elsewhere.
This start allows you to really think outside of the box. Economy drives everything. I know that Alfred long ago published a position that OZ was better than India, but I have never subscribed to that. India with China gone is a very strong economic base, strong enough since you own PH to keep on the offensive for a long time.
That means OFFENSIVE AC, not the historical defensive models. Yes, you're going to lose more pilots. But he doesn't have near the AC pools to keep up for a LONG TIME.

Sure you want Frank, you always do. But this game could go really deep, all the way to '46. You likely won't be on the defensive until mid '44. That presents other models that normally come too late to be useful, but in this game late '44 looks to be prime for you.
EX: SAM looks to be MUCH more interesting than normal. You need the A6M until you leave the offensive. A7M is a defensive plane due to range. With 9xRnD factories, getting A7M in mid '44 is certainly achievable. Almost EVERY IJN fighter group upgrades to A7M. Useful plane that, right? +30 groups to ~400mph? Yeah.

Digression: Economic Analysis
OK, Taking all the normal areas plus all of China and S. India gives you almost 9000 HI if you just repair what you take, no extra building (which I rarely advise) and about 3200 OIL or 28,800 fuel/day refined, 10,800 after HI requirements, plenty for the IJN.
9000 HI fact = 18,000 HI pts. ARM+VEH=5000. NSY+MSY= 6000. That leave 7000 for AC. That's 2000 1.7Eng AC equivalents per month. That's a booming economy completely sustainable. And who leaves their NSY+MSY running so high after mid-42? So plenty of HI stockpiled too boot.


Pick your AC and Engine factories carefully for expansion. Few models. Lots'a AC. Saves you supply.

Regression: Targets. Is the SOV in mid 43 viable? Maybe. Why? Lousy aircraft models until '45. Yeah, a lot of armor coming at you, but you will control the skies handily. How would it feel to own China, S India and have SOV bottled up at Krasnovarsk? Not to mention ~900 LI factories and NO BEAR breathing down you neck in '45? Wow. Fantasyland.

Anyway, just all thoughts here with a few numbers for you to consider.

How can this happen? Initiative. If you don't give it up, he can't store up the air groups and LCU's to hurt you. If you go hard in India and he doesn't move the USAAF there, you will take Karachi and then he is really in trouble. Plus you get ~1M fuel. So, of course he moves it there, but with your AC production you can simply overwhelm it. Yep, you're going to lose 1000's. He cannot trade at 2:1 with you and I bet you can do better; 1.7 - 1.5:1. He ends up with no 2e or 4E pools. At worst you stalemate somewhere between Bombay and Karachi. Best you take it all.

BANZAI!!!!!


< Message edited by PaxMondo -- 9/1/2015 3:21:36 AM >


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RE: Oh, Canada! - 9/1/2015 2:01:28 PM   
Lowpe


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I have 120 points of factories going after Sam across 3 factories; 180 across three factories for the Sam J...I inherited that from Olorin who did go pretty big on the late war fighters including the 94II but for some reason went light on the Frank.

I actually have thought of Russia, especially if AV looms near for 43 or 44. I think it would take six months to cut Soviets in half and destroy and conquer everything to the south. Without AV, I don't think it makes sense to attack Russia...but if AV looms it is a solid gamble.

But as usual Pax you make great sense in keeping the iniatiave.



< Message edited by Lowpe -- 9/1/2015 3:04:00 PM >

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