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Russian strategy in 1942 - 8/16/2015 1:55:44 PM   
STEF78


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I'm mid january 1942 as russian in a server game, mild bizzard, random weather and I'm worried about the coming next spring... My opponent is an agressive player.

The front is Ladoga, Ilmen, Rjev, Kursk, Stalino. Crimea is mine. HI>200, Armaments>300

The OOB



Should I build more rifle brigades? Keep them or build inf divs?
What is the best defence: 2 hexes retreat each turn south of Kaluga? Wall of iron? Carpet defence?
What is the best way to counter german breakthrough? Cav corps?
Should I give up Crimea?
What is the best strategy for russian air army?

Thanks

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RE: Russian strategy in 1942 - 8/16/2015 2:40:54 PM   
chaos45

 

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I would suggest reading AARs that are posted.

1942 is rough for the Soviets no matter how well you do in 1941. Cav Corps are about the strongest soviet units until Guard Rifle corps but at 20 AP per guard rifle corps they are expensive.

Best strategy is try to keep as much ground as you can while avoiding giving up large encirclements. The more ground you keep the easier it will be to get to Berlin but giving up large amount of units to keep the ground isnt all that worthwhile unless its very key terrain.

Rifle Bdes are very good as it allows you alot of units to build back up defense lines and it will allow you to keep newly combined divisions at 50 morale for awhile when you national morale falls to 40 for most of the year.

(in reply to STEF78)
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RE: Russian strategy in 1942 - 8/16/2015 3:11:15 PM   
charlie0311

 

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Hi Stef,

For others, Stef is a fine and determined player, he persisted in a losing cause all way to Berlin and <39 VPs, the only one, ever. Ok, not completely sure.

Your Gd rifle xxx will win for you, save APs such that come Jun you can build 16 (or more), 320 AP. That will get you a line of eight hexes with x2 GdRxxx per hex. Then backed by Cav xxx in reserve. All in same Front, four xxxx's, 4 xxx per xxxx. Or you can do three xxx and three xx per xxxx for a line with two xxx/hex and a xx in reserve. Defend the Moscow area with these guys. Remember, plus 125 AP come with Voronezh front, and the sov monthly APs go from 50 to 60 sometime in Spring.

Build lots of brigades "x". Start in Jan. Also I like lots of Tk Bn's and lots of sappers. Don't have perfect formula. Put x in all those extra Hq with sappers, and build multiple lines, from the Stalino area north to the Oka. Lines about six hexes apart, one prepared line North and South from Moscow should be enough.

Going to time out so stopping for now.

Edit, tell your pal that you are going to spend a week planning..

< Message edited by charlie0311 -- 8/16/2015 4:24:04 PM >

(in reply to chaos45)
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RE: Russian strategy in 1942 - 8/16/2015 3:30:57 PM   
STEF78


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Thanks for the different advices

If I can sumnarize
- wall of iron in front of Moscow with 2 rifle corps per hex and cav corps in reserve
- multiple defensive lines built with rifle brigades.
- sappers

AP will be the key...

I'm not sure about holding ground. It's clearly a mistake in 1941 and the South can be very dangerous in 1942. German Pzd/Mot MP are huge. Why not giving some hexes early may?

And about soviet air army? And Crimea?

I will post an AAR beginning december 1941

And the desperate previous AAR (as german) http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3607623





< Message edited by STEF78 -- 8/16/2015 4:36:14 PM >

(in reply to charlie0311)
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RE: Russian strategy in 1942 - 8/16/2015 4:16:54 PM   
loki100


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Stef

I'd say that apart from Moscow you cannot hold anywhere. You need to hold Moscow if at all possible and the terrain and constricted options make this easy ( ... sort of), not least I would build as many rifle corps as I could if my opponent really went for Moscow.

In the south, don't be afraid to run, its not like in 1941 where you have industry to protect and so on. Its a huge open space down there, so make your opponent fill it. But you also need to cost them time. I think the south is as much a war on German movement points as combat strength.

Your HI is good.

I'd keep your brigades as brigades till you need them. A single turn on refit after conversion will make them good enough to use. At the start, they really are for replacing your losses so keeping it as flexible as possible seems sensible.

Looking forward to the AAR, especially after your epic with Oshawatt.

Crimea - no reason why not hold, its a thorn in the German's side, but I'd not worry about it.

In the air, mid-1942 is horrible, your fighters are really outclassed plus lower morale and experience. Just keep on inflicting attrition. Late 42 it gets better (Yak-9s etc) and the Luftwaffe is drawn off to the West.

< Message edited by loki100 -- 8/16/2015 5:18:45 PM >


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RE: Russian strategy in 1942 - 8/16/2015 4:58:11 PM   
schascha


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Salut stef,

I'm waiting too for your AAR.

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RE: Russian strategy in 1942 - 8/16/2015 5:18:25 PM   
charlie0311

 

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1. Schascha, see the "desperate" AAR link, above.

2. Loki,thx and agree with remarks.

3. Stef, Spring line is 3 xx/hex, with the gd xx one back. Be prepared to counter-attack in Feb/March. Axis will not be fully built up yet (we hope) and the fatigue costs of attacking in blizzard/snow are so high the Pzs are vulnerable to you cav xxx.

Apr/May is mostly mud (we hope) so no generalized retreating (yet). The whole area South of the Oka is for retreating and delaying. Axis will hurt you!!! I feel the pain even now.

The retreats should be far enough such that the German infantry can't reach you in one turn and make prepared attacks, more than two.

Once you have some prepared lines, they have to stay occupied (with x's). Maybe 100 x's in prepared positons and another 100 for taking up space, more is better, you're the sov high command.

Keep the Tk x's safe and on rails, for extreme emergency purposes.

I recommend against building Tk xxx (Apr), use the AP's for rifle x, sappers, and Tk Bn.

Tk xxx for winter offensive, with Tk xxxx Hq and plenty of SU's and good leaders.

(in reply to schascha)
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RE: Russian strategy in 1942 - 8/16/2015 6:04:30 PM   
schascha


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Charlie,

I already knew it, I followed it "in live".

The link below it's my game against Stef, it worth a look too

< Message edited by schascha -- 8/16/2015 7:21:49 PM >


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RE: Russian strategy in 1942 - 8/16/2015 6:36:41 PM   
STEF78


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So, I will keep Crimea.

I like the idea of 3 XX and 1 GD xx in reserve mode

I will give ground in the South, even if I don't know the impact of this retreat on my human replacement pool.

What's the best use for Tanks brigade? They look very weak...


(in reply to schascha)
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RE: Russian strategy in 1942 - 8/17/2015 5:02:44 AM   
Gabriel B.

 

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Place 24 on static, it will release trucks to build your motorised brigades and 3 out of 5 cp needed .





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Post #: 10
RE: Russian strategy in 1942 - 8/17/2015 5:43:17 AM   
Gabriel B.

 

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Building of tank corps does not impact the formation of rifle corps,

I had hit turn 51 with 500 ap (315 saved (roughly 35 ap saved each turn ) , 60 normal +125 from voronej front )

That would have raised 25 rifle corps plus 9 corps in turns 52,53,54 for a total of 34 before the summer.



< Message edited by Gabriel B. -- 8/17/2015 6:54:23 AM >

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RE: Russian strategy in 1942 - 8/17/2015 10:55:24 AM   
timmyab

 

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It seems like a fairly even game.

I would hold the Moscow area (Rshev to Tula) with an excess of force, enough to convince your opponent that it's going to be a nightmare trying for Moscow. So I'm thinking maybe close to half the Soviet army here defending the Moscow area and acting as a strategic reserve.

Be more flexible South of Tula but offer resistance between Tula and Voronezh with the aim of preventing a crossing of the Oka SE of Moscow.South of Voronezh you can happily trade space for time. You can retreat right back to the Volga if you have to. He can even take Stalingrad and Saratov, but it wont help him much if you hold Moscow and preserve your army. As long as you hold the Moscow area your 43 offensive will have a good Westerly jumping off point and his exertions in the South will count for little. Don't wait for the first disaster before backing off in the South.

In the North I would concentrate on holding from Rzhev to The Valdai hills. North of that a flexible defense with the emphasis on preservation of the army.

(in reply to STEF78)
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RE: Russian strategy in 1942 - 8/17/2015 2:57:23 PM   
charlie0311

 

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Those 9 Tk xxx cost 225 AP's. Could have 45 rifle x instead.

And, start building air groups, mostly fighters, in about 6 months they train up to 70+ morale.

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RE: Russian strategy in 1942 - 8/18/2015 6:06:26 AM   
Gabriel B.

 

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And do what ? the rifle bde is useles on the front line and does not digg well behind the front either.

in 1942 you need strong units to counteratack, otherwise you are just raising the pocket POW numbers.

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RE: Russian strategy in 1942 - 8/18/2015 7:41:06 AM   
charlie0311

 

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Ok, G, you are mostly correct.
But.

1) Rifle x take up space and make the axis burn MP's when advancing. If in reserve mode, some will activate and further impede axis movement.
2) Rifle x, if attached to one of the extra Hq with two sappers will entrench very well, then one can occupy the entrenchment.
3) They are the most expendable of all the sov units, assuming here that an Axis player will be able to create pockets.
4) "not useful as frontline", useful as a screen before the front line.
5) "strong units to counter attack", ok, 225 AP's for 9 Tk xxx, CV 3 (5 with sappers), could also be 11 rifle xxx, CV 10. The rifle xxx is the stronger unit. The Tk xxx is more mobile. That is it's only advantage.

Each is entitled to their opinion. My remarks are my opinion, that's all.

And, to add a little more flavor. Tk xxxx become available in July and, also in July, the T-34 factories upgrade.

Following the various AAR's I think most players seem to agree with you and do build Tk xxx early on.

(in reply to Gabriel B.)
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RE: Russian strategy in 1942 - 8/18/2015 12:31:10 PM   
Gabriel B.

 

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Just to clarify, I meant 9 more rifle corps in june not Tank.

Tank corps were already build in the first turn of april , except for a brief period in march, you hold the initiative and can build AP reserve.

A good axis player will drill trough 5-6 hex deep carpets ( with ease if brigades are in) and pocket a entire front in one turn.


The rifle corps does not have the MP to mass for a counterstrike where the axis encirclement is weak, you need armor/cavalry and lots of it. The weakest unit in the axis panzer ball is the mot division , however that gets uparmored in 1942 and has 13-14
defensive cv without any fortification . you need 26-28 cv to hit it, with reasonable chance . Basicly 2 rifle corps need to be in position to hit it with deliberate atacks .




(in reply to charlie0311)
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RE: Russian strategy in 1942 - 8/18/2015 2:35:37 PM   
charlie0311

 

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We agree on having 500 AP banked by Jun, 125+60 when V front comes and the turn before 315.

The Pz ball is indeed powerful. As I said the x's are not for the carpet behind the main line. NO, NO, and again No. See previous posts. Something like this, the first withdrawal, (we're talking South here, wherever the Pz ball will be coming, ID'ed by recon) is far enough away such that the axis can't reach it for deliberate inf attacks, and would be at level 2 fort lvl. Even with 3 xx at level 2 fort the Pzs can break thru on their own, so you need the screen in front (x's) and in back, more x's and cav and rif xxx.

when the Axis inf is close enough to make deliberates, next turn, then back to next line. Four armies of a Hq with sappers and x's as attached units can be building new "temporary" stop lines as the Axis moves forward, you will get about 2 weeks of "stop" per line.

The 40 x's I mentioned, in 4 xxxx's, 8 per xxxx and two per hex, build quite nicely. That's 16 hexes of lvl 2 fort. 120 x's would give 48 hexes prebuilt and over 250, I like, over 100 pre built. "pre" as in before Jun. Not counting the Tk x's, so with them, even more, not in xxxx HQ.

Once summer gets going the x's can't build fast enough for lvl 2 so would need help from more powerful units, in selected areas.

Once your rifle xxx summer "love" is built, about 40 is what I like, then begin with the Tk xxx. The 500 Jun bonanza makes the first 25 rxxx.

(in reply to Gabriel B.)
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RE: Russian strategy in 1942 - 8/18/2015 6:54:10 PM   
chaos45

 

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IDK the strategy Im using against Pelton and its so far worked decently.

I built a ton of Rifle BDEs once they hit 5 AP each- over the winter. Since that buying blitz I built a few replacement batches here and there as divisions get chewed up but have honestly just been burning up Stavka Rifle BDE reserves that were mostly built over the first winter. I would guess 100 rifle bdes at least is probably needed in total. I didnt really keep count, I just built alot till I felt I had enough in reserve then built other things.

I didnt hit June with near 500 AP- the reason for this was I wanted trained tank Corps available for the Summer months. Also I have built and mainted 20 Cavalry corps for most of the game. I lose one I built another. So that has been an AP drain.

However up to september 1942 now and having 20 Cav Corps and at one time 22 tank corps paid off(at 19 Tank Corps right now). I was able to break encirclements repeatedly and consistently counterattack his main pushes all summer long delaying his advance and delaying his ability to bleed my army/APs.

I did build several Rifle Corps in June as well but their initial use was to continue offensive operations in the Center in front moscow and allowed me to grind a couple more hexes west until he reinforced his center. The next rifle corps I built were to stop then slowly start some counterattacks against his operations in the far north. The last batch I built was in response to his Tula offensive which I successfully completely stopped and have been slowly grinding him back with offensive operations of my own. At september now and I probably only have 12-15 rifle corps on the battlefield. They really havent factored much as they arent mobile enough to counterattack. If I can get them adjacent to non-dug in Germans they are awesome but once the Germasn hit lvl 2 forts with a decent unit or two even a couple rifle corps wont shift them alone.

I have prefered the mobility and counterattack options of the Cav Corps and tank corps and have roughly 40 at any one time all summer has been extremely effective.

Now Im building Mech corps which should once they reach guards status be my most effective units yet once they get trained. Not to mention more Cavalry corps as I wont have enough trucks for a ton of mech corps this early in the war. Cav corps are great due to the low amount of trucks they take to keep in the field.

So far I feel my strategy is winning but its looking like Pelton decided to use the panzer ball to flank Rostov T63 which worked he'll get Rostov and if he wants to advance towards Grozny why not is how I see it

I doubt he will as it will extend his flanks but if he does just makes me as the Soviets having mobile units available all the better.



< Message edited by chaos45 -- 8/18/2015 8:01:23 PM >

(in reply to charlie0311)
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RE: Russian strategy in 1942 - 8/18/2015 9:06:16 PM   
charlie0311

 

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And so the case is made for building Tk xxx early. Well done.

Ps. I never counted all the X's either, probably had too many.

I do think 16 rxxx is good to establish the Moscow defense.

My opinions come from a test game v Axis AI. Waiting for a real person for the real fun

< Message edited by charlie0311 -- 8/18/2015 10:12:26 PM >

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RE: Russian strategy in 1942 - 8/19/2015 5:00:34 AM   
Gabriel B.

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: chaos45

IDK the strategy Im using against Pelton and its so far worked decently.

I built a ton of Rifle BDEs once they hit 5 AP each- over the winter. Since that buying blitz I built a few replacement batches here and there as divisions get chewed up but have honestly just been burning up Stavka Rifle BDE reserves that were mostly built over the first winter. I would guess 100 rifle bdes at least is probably needed in total. I didnt really keep count, I just built alot till I felt I had enough in reserve then built other things.

I didnt hit June with near 500 AP- the reason for this was I wanted trained tank Corps available for the Summer months. Also I have built and mainted 20 Cavalry corps for most of the game. I lose one I built another. So that has been an AP drain.

However up to september 1942 now and having 20 Cav Corps and at one time 22 tank corps paid off(at 19 Tank Corps right now). I was able to break encirclements repeatedly and consistently counterattack his main pushes all summer long delaying his advance and delaying his ability to bleed my army/APs.

I did build several Rifle Corps in June as well but their initial use was to continue offensive operations in the Center in front moscow and allowed me to grind a couple more hexes west until he reinforced his center. The next rifle corps I built were to stop then slowly start some counterattacks against his operations in the far north. The last batch I built was in response to his Tula offensive which I successfully completely stopped and have been slowly grinding him back with offensive operations of my own. At september now and I probably only have 12-15 rifle corps on the battlefield. They really havent factored much as they arent mobile enough to counterattack. If I can get them adjacent to non-dug in Germans they are awesome but once the Germasn hit lvl 2 forts with a decent unit or two even a couple rifle corps wont shift them alone.

I have prefered the mobility and counterattack options of the Cav Corps and tank corps and have roughly 40 at any one time all summer has been extremely effective.

Now Im building Mech corps which should once they reach guards status be my most effective units yet once they get trained. Not to mention more Cavalry corps as I wont have enough trucks for a ton of mech corps this early in the war. Cav corps are great due to the low amount of trucks they take to keep in the field.

So far I feel my strategy is winning but its looking like Pelton decided to use the panzer ball to flank Rostov T63 which worked he'll get Rostov and if he wants to advance towards Grozny why not is how I see it

I doubt he will as it will extend his flanks but if he does just makes me as the Soviets having mobile units available all the better.




Your force composition is quite historical except maybe cavalry .

Afaik the soviets raised 13 cav corps , 19 tank corps ,9 rifle corps before the summer but lost 6 cavalry corps in the spring battles .

(in reply to chaos45)
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