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German air tips - 7/24/2015 7:45:24 PM   
decourcy2

 

Posts: 516
Joined: 1/29/2015
Status: offline
I don't know if this counts as strategy, but these are things I see people do incorrectly in the AARs.

1. The Axis have a ton of level 1 airfields and many aircraft on them. The Axis aircraft have worse reliability numbers than the Allies anyway, remember that flying from level 1 airbases increases operational losses.
Upgrade key airfields and move your aircraft off those level 1's!

2. Don't fly aircraft you do not need. The Axis have a FEW patrol planes with almost no replacements. Do not fly them through the bad weather turns unless the Allies invade in the winter. You want to have as many ready as possible when the Allies invade.

3. If you are using Luftlotte 2 / 2nd Fleiger corps to support ground operations in Italy turn off those two HQs auto naval patrol. A few tired bombers are going to add no significant NI and just add to your losses, more importantly the following week your bombers will not be in shape for ground support work.

Sure, when there is no ground action use all the HQs for naval interdiction but once the ground war heats up use IXth Fleiger corps for naval interdiction.
Post #: 1
RE: German air tips - 7/24/2015 10:39:28 PM   
LiquidSky


Posts: 2811
Joined: 6/24/2008
Status: offline


Don't bother upgrading airbases that aren't going to be protected by flak.

Upgrade all the cities in the Ruhr. (and build new ones). Upgrade/Build up Berlin. Munich. Vienna. That sort of thing.

Park all your short range fighters in the Ruhr. Transfer all the Flak Regiments that are uselessly protecting ports and things in France etc.... to the Ruhr. Use your RR Flak to fill in gaps, but be ready to move it around from turn to turn.

Park your long range fighters in the middle (or around Ploesti if the allies have Foggia and/or Corisica). The fighters around the Ruhr will strip off his drop tanks, leaving the bombers mostly unescorted when they reach the middle targets. They will take fearsome damage.

Don't use your bombers where they can be destroyed on the ground. If you waste them trying to interdict allied supply in Italy, you will lose them. Not worth it. Instead hide them away....save them for a rainy day. When the allies are invading France, use them to destroy airbases in Italy. It will stop him from bombing your southern cities...which are VP's.

Put all aircraft squadrons that aren't single engine German fighters on RESTRICTED. You don't want any pilots going to them. It will also stop them from getting replacement aircraft, but you can fix that later, since you wont be using them.

Put all single engine German fighters on TRAINED PILOTS ONLY. You don't want them to get any poor pilots.

Put the Night Fighters on RESTRICTED. These are a large pool of trained fighter pilots for use later...you don't want to pollute them with poor pilots. Let them train up on Bomber Command.

Make sure all the ZG squadrons have heavy fighters in them. You don't want them flying night fighters.

Poor pilots = operational losses. It also equals free kills for the allies, and used up fuel....for very little effect. Your experienced pilots will get better and better as they kill allied planes. But after a while, the pendulum will start to shift. When the squadrons upgrade from 40 to 68 aircraft, disband all the night fighter squadrons, and put all those trained pilots in your fighter squadrons. You just doubled the size of your defence. Let flak deal with the night bombers.

If the allies notice that you aren't flying any night fighters, you can always switch the ZG squadrons over. A nasty surprise....

Park the air transports near Essen on an airfield away from the city. They have easy access to unlimited supply for flying air transport missions. I usually move around 3000-4000 supply in unescorted day missions to the front line.

Put all the allied fighters (Italian/Rum etc) around Berlin. In the early war when Italy is still around, you can have fun with the Italian airforce and burn it off bombing whatever you want....its free. I parked it on Sardinia to use against invasion. I also used the German Patrol aircraft here until it was destroyed. Just make sure they don't get any pilots.


Turn off all auto training. They will learn more against the allied aircraft then on their own. Turn off all auto Naval patrol for Germans....let the Italians do that until they surrender.

_____________________________

“My logisticians are a humorless lot … they know if my campaign fails, they are the first ones I will slay.” – Alexander the Great

(in reply to decourcy2)
Post #: 2
RE: German air tips - 7/24/2015 11:35:56 PM   
LiquidSky


Posts: 2811
Joined: 6/24/2008
Status: offline


A couple more random thoughts:

The only reason to attach construction units to a city is to build airfields (for the Germans). OKW does an excellent job throwing construction battalions around to fix priority factory repairs. Let him do his job.


Another note on the night fighters...I think of them as training squadrons for the big upgrade in Luftwaffe fighter squadrons. So there are a few different ways you can try this.....you could give them poor pilots and let them try and get better fighting BC....or training on their own. You could restrict them (like I did) so that their quality is high when you send them to day fighters.


Yet another note on bombers. I look at them as a one or two use item. And as a threat in being. If you want to use them up in the first few turns of the game, the allies will be freer with their fighter squadrons later. If you save them, he will always have to think about them...and with the new rules on air transfer you can:

Transfer to a forward base.
Bomb one or two days.
Transfer back somewhere safe.

If you feel like micro managing.

I try to limit all air flights to a minimum to save fuel. Same with my panzer units. I hardly ever fly recon aircraft except when I am hitting airfields.

_____________________________

“My logisticians are a humorless lot … they know if my campaign fails, they are the first ones I will slay.” – Alexander the Great

(in reply to LiquidSky)
Post #: 3
RE: German air tips - 7/25/2015 12:38:24 AM   
Seminole


Posts: 1823
Joined: 7/28/2011
Status: online
I'm wary of 'hard and fast' rules in this area, as much of what you'll do with them depends on what your enemy is doing.

quote:

If you waste them trying to interdict allied supply in Italy, you will lose them. Not worth it. Instead hide them away....save them for a rainy day. When the allies are invading France, use them to destroy airbases in Italy. It will stop him from bombing your southern cities...which are VP's.


I've had plenty of success using my bombers in the Med, but the aforementioned tactic of not burning up all the weekly mileage and them moving them to safer bases is important.
With the changes to naval interdiction affecting AHQs they can be useful sending troop and cargo ships to the bottom, and forcing the Allied commitment of aircraft in ways and areas they'd prefer to not have to operate.

quote:

Yet another note on bombers. I look at them as a one or two use item.


Trying to operate them in N. Europe in '44+ that's probably true. Part of the reason I like to use them in the Med is that you can use them in an environment not as thick with enemy fighters.

quote:

I hardly ever fly recon aircraft except when I am hitting airfields.


Recon values affect land combat. Leaving your ground commanders blind to the threats they face hurts them. I don't see much point in staying blind to save recon for, well, save them for what if you're not going to use them?

quote:

Park the air transports near Essen on an airfield away from the city.


This goes back to strategy as well. With my Med defense the transports are more useful in transferring units than supply, but the notion of sitting by national supply sources for supply missions is good.

quote:

Make sure all the ZG squadrons have heavy fighters in them.


I've had some success with retraining these guys as bombers at the start and adding some punch to ground interdiction. I use that ground interdiction very selectively, but its an important tool in my box.
I also like to back them up so they're more likely to engage bomber groups that are unescorted.

(in reply to LiquidSky)
Post #: 4
RE: German air tips - 7/25/2015 2:35:49 AM   
Q-Ball


Posts: 7166
Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Chicago, Illinois
Status: offline
Good thread. Another use of transports is rapid reaction to an invasion in France. You can air transport the 91st Air Landing division right where you need it in reaction to invasion. Even better, they fly over all the interdiction.


_____________________________


(in reply to Seminole)
Post #: 5
RE: German air tips - 7/25/2015 1:39:00 PM   
LiquidSky


Posts: 2811
Joined: 6/24/2008
Status: offline


I have to say that as somebody who prefers playing the allies, I would love to play against a German who thinks they can use their bombers. I believe the most important goal for my aircraft is not the bombing of German cities for a handful of VP's...although they will be doing that until the Germans make an appearance with their Luftwaffe.

But the elimination of the German bombers. Once they are damaged beyond repair, it frees up your (allied) immense fighter force to be used as interdiction bombers.

In fact, that is the best advice of all I can give a german player. The allies want to destroy your planes. You have to protect them. Every mission you fly with them has to be weighed against the cost of losing most of them the next turn. It could be you are playing against an allied player who is complacent, or assumes that his mighty airforce will win all without actually doing the work...

But sooner or later they will wake up and do something about it. Most of them will take simple measures at least such as transferring spitfire squadrons to forward bases..

Others will be more extreme and use the 8th Airforce to hit every airfield in a 10 x 10 box. Or even BC on a night run in the same box. Even if he doesn't hit anything, he will drive detection levels up for a month where he can see if you ever base aircraft on those airfields or not.

So think carefully...is transferring a land unit by air worth not being able to supply a panzer army by air fighting a DDay invasion? Because a good allied player will make you decide.

_____________________________

“My logisticians are a humorless lot … they know if my campaign fails, they are the first ones I will slay.” – Alexander the Great

(in reply to Q-Ball)
Post #: 6
RE: German air tips - 7/25/2015 1:59:38 PM   
Seminole


Posts: 1823
Joined: 7/28/2011
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: LiquidSky
I have to say that as somebody who prefers playing the allies, I would love to play against a German who thinks they can use their bombers.


I definitely want to play you (especially since you stole one my best opponents! ). When I get back down to two 'alive' games I'll let you know and see where you're at. NOSB hasn't even logged in here in a week. I'm afraid that game is dead too now.

quote:

I believe the most important goal for my aircraft is not the bombing of German cities for a handful of VP's...although they will be doing that until the Germans make an appearance with their Luftwaffe.


I think the most important thing for the Allied Air Force is supporting the ground forces. Interdiction and supply suffocation so they can make progress on the ground.

quote:

So think carefully...is transferring a land unit by air worth not being able to supply a panzer army by air fighting a DDay invasion? Because a good allied player will make you decide.


DicedT is still trying to take Sardinia from me in June of '44. Ask him if he'd prefer I 'saved' the Luftwaffe for D-Day...

(in reply to LiquidSky)
Post #: 7
RE: German air tips - 12/12/2017 9:04:08 PM   
BK6583

 

Posts: 411
Joined: 10/8/2002
Status: offline
An old that always engenders mixed opinions - put all German ac on auto upgrade (which seems to be the recommended opinion for the WA)?
quote:

ORIGINAL: LiquidSky



Don't bother upgrading airbases that aren't going to be protected by flak.

Upgrade all the cities in the Ruhr. (and build new ones). Upgrade/Build up Berlin. Munich. Vienna. That sort of thing.

Park all your short range fighters in the Ruhr. Transfer all the Flak Regiments that are uselessly protecting ports and things in France etc.... to the Ruhr. Use your RR Flak to fill in gaps, but be ready to move it around from turn to turn.

Park your long range fighters in the middle (or around Ploesti if the allies have Foggia and/or Corisica). The fighters around the Ruhr will strip off his drop tanks, leaving the bombers mostly unescorted when they reach the middle targets. They will take fearsome damage.

Don't use your bombers where they can be destroyed on the ground. If you waste them trying to interdict allied supply in Italy, you will lose them. Not worth it. Instead hide them away....save them for a rainy day. When the allies are invading France, use them to destroy airbases in Italy. It will stop him from bombing your southern cities...which are VP's.

Put all aircraft squadrons that aren't single engine German fighters on RESTRICTED. You don't want any pilots going to them. It will also stop them from getting replacement aircraft, but you can fix that later, since you wont be using them.

Put all single engine German fighters on TRAINED PILOTS ONLY. You don't want them to get any poor pilots.

Put the Night Fighters on RESTRICTED. These are a large pool of trained fighter pilots for use later...you don't want to pollute them with poor pilots. Let them train up on Bomber Command.

Make sure all the ZG squadrons have heavy fighters in them. You don't want them flying night fighters.

Poor pilots = operational losses. It also equals free kills for the allies, and used up fuel....for very little effect. Your experienced pilots will get better and better as they kill allied planes. But after a while, the pendulum will start to shift. When the squadrons upgrade from 40 to 68 aircraft, disband all the night fighter squadrons, and put all those trained pilots in your fighter squadrons. You just doubled the size of your defence. Let flak deal with the night bombers.

If the allies notice that you aren't flying any night fighters, you can always switch the ZG squadrons over. A nasty surprise....

Park the air transports near Essen on an airfield away from the city. They have easy access to unlimited supply for flying air transport missions. I usually move around 3000-4000 supply in unescorted day missions to the front line.

Put all the allied fighters (Italian/Rum etc) around Berlin. In the early war when Italy is still around, you can have fun with the Italian airforce and burn it off bombing whatever you want....its free. I parked it on Sardinia to use against invasion. I also used the German Patrol aircraft here until it was destroyed. Just make sure they don't get any pilots.


Turn off all auto training. They will learn more against the allied aircraft then on their own. Turn off all auto Naval patrol for Germans....let the Italians do that until they surrender.


(in reply to LiquidSky)
Post #: 8
RE: German air tips - 12/12/2017 10:17:13 PM   
BK6583

 

Posts: 411
Joined: 10/8/2002
Status: offline
I assume German single engine fighters stationed in Italy stay in Italy?
quote:

ORIGINAL: LiquidSky



Don't bother upgrading airbases that aren't going to be protected by flak.

Upgrade all the cities in the Ruhr. (and build new ones). Upgrade/Build up Berlin. Munich. Vienna. That sort of thing.

Park all your short range fighters in the Ruhr. Transfer all the Flak Regiments that are uselessly protecting ports and things in France etc.... to the Ruhr. Use your RR Flak to fill in gaps, but be ready to move it around from turn to turn.

Park your long range fighters in the middle (or around Ploesti if the allies have Foggia and/or Corisica). The fighters around the Ruhr will strip off his drop tanks, leaving the bombers mostly unescorted when they reach the middle targets. They will take fearsome damage.

Don't use your bombers where they can be destroyed on the ground. If you waste them trying to interdict allied supply in Italy, you will lose them. Not worth it. Instead hide them away....save them for a rainy day. When the allies are invading France, use them to destroy airbases in Italy. It will stop him from bombing your southern cities...which are VP's.

Put all aircraft squadrons that aren't single engine German fighters on RESTRICTED. You don't want any pilots going to them. It will also stop them from getting replacement aircraft, but you can fix that later, since you wont be using them.

Put all single engine German fighters on TRAINED PILOTS ONLY. You don't want them to get any poor pilots.

Put the Night Fighters on RESTRICTED. These are a large pool of trained fighter pilots for use later...you don't want to pollute them with poor pilots. Let them train up on Bomber Command.

Make sure all the ZG squadrons have heavy fighters in them. You don't want them flying night fighters.

Poor pilots = operational losses. It also equals free kills for the allies, and used up fuel....for very little effect. Your experienced pilots will get better and better as they kill allied planes. But after a while, the pendulum will start to shift. When the squadrons upgrade from 40 to 68 aircraft, disband all the night fighter squadrons, and put all those trained pilots in your fighter squadrons. You just doubled the size of your defence. Let flak deal with the night bombers.

If the allies notice that you aren't flying any night fighters, you can always switch the ZG squadrons over. A nasty surprise....

Park the air transports near Essen on an airfield away from the city. They have easy access to unlimited supply for flying air transport missions. I usually move around 3000-4000 supply in unescorted day missions to the front line.

Put all the allied fighters (Italian/Rum etc) around Berlin. In the early war when Italy is still around, you can have fun with the Italian airforce and burn it off bombing whatever you want....its free. I parked it on Sardinia to use against invasion. I also used the German Patrol aircraft here until it was destroyed. Just make sure they don't get any pilots.


Turn off all auto training. They will learn more against the allied aircraft then on their own. Turn off all auto Naval patrol for Germans....let the Italians do that until they surrender.


(in reply to LiquidSky)
Post #: 9
RE: German air tips - 12/12/2017 10:18:25 PM   
BK6583

 

Posts: 411
Joined: 10/8/2002
Status: offline
Sorry my geography is lousy - what area defines the "Ruhr"?
quote:

ORIGINAL: BK6583

I assume German single engine fighters stationed in Italy stay in Italy?
quote:

ORIGINAL: LiquidSky



Don't bother upgrading airbases that aren't going to be protected by flak.

Upgrade all the cities in the Ruhr. (and build new ones). Upgrade/Build up Berlin. Munich. Vienna. That sort of thing.

Park all your short range fighters in the Ruhr. Transfer all the Flak Regiments that are uselessly protecting ports and things in France etc.... to the Ruhr. Use your RR Flak to fill in gaps, but be ready to move it around from turn to turn.

Park your long range fighters in the middle (or around Ploesti if the allies have Foggia and/or Corisica). The fighters around the Ruhr will strip off his drop tanks, leaving the bombers mostly unescorted when they reach the middle targets. They will take fearsome damage.

Don't use your bombers where they can be destroyed on the ground. If you waste them trying to interdict allied supply in Italy, you will lose them. Not worth it. Instead hide them away....save them for a rainy day. When the allies are invading France, use them to destroy airbases in Italy. It will stop him from bombing your southern cities...which are VP's.

Put all aircraft squadrons that aren't single engine German fighters on RESTRICTED. You don't want any pilots going to them. It will also stop them from getting replacement aircraft, but you can fix that later, since you wont be using them.

Put all single engine German fighters on TRAINED PILOTS ONLY. You don't want them to get any poor pilots.

Put the Night Fighters on RESTRICTED. These are a large pool of trained fighter pilots for use later...you don't want to pollute them with poor pilots. Let them train up on Bomber Command.

Make sure all the ZG squadrons have heavy fighters in them. You don't want them flying night fighters.

Poor pilots = operational losses. It also equals free kills for the allies, and used up fuel....for very little effect. Your experienced pilots will get better and better as they kill allied planes. But after a while, the pendulum will start to shift. When the squadrons upgrade from 40 to 68 aircraft, disband all the night fighter squadrons, and put all those trained pilots in your fighter squadrons. You just doubled the size of your defence. Let flak deal with the night bombers.

If the allies notice that you aren't flying any night fighters, you can always switch the ZG squadrons over. A nasty surprise....

Park the air transports near Essen on an airfield away from the city. They have easy access to unlimited supply for flying air transport missions. I usually move around 3000-4000 supply in unescorted day missions to the front line.

Put all the allied fighters (Italian/Rum etc) around Berlin. In the early war when Italy is still around, you can have fun with the Italian airforce and burn it off bombing whatever you want....its free. I parked it on Sardinia to use against invasion. I also used the German Patrol aircraft here until it was destroyed. Just make sure they don't get any pilots.


Turn off all auto training. They will learn more against the allied aircraft then on their own. Turn off all auto Naval patrol for Germans....let the Italians do that until they surrender.




(in reply to BK6583)
Post #: 10
RE: German air tips - 12/20/2017 4:24:37 AM   
monniker

 

Posts: 16
Joined: 10/16/2015
Status: offline
I can help a bit. I'm nowhere near as good as Liquidsky and Seminole- my two favorite WITW players, as a matter of personal opinion- but the Ruhr is colloquially used to refer to the industrial base near the border with France and Belgium near the Rhine. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Ruhr. I hope that worked right. I'm spoiled by the italicization in Microsoft Word.

As to your other concern, the advantage of Automatic Upgrade is that unlike the Manual, Morale doesn't take a hit from an automatic upgrade (as far as I recall). The short answer is, if you're not interested in the air war, leave it to the computer. If you're very interested in the air war, it may be reasonable to take (what used to be) a three point morale hit to upgrade certain squads to deal with Allied pressure. But, remember that a higher morale leads to fewer losses and generally better performance, which is important to maintain a favorable ratio against the Allies. It's like any good gamble; you leave as little up to chance as possible.

I've often wondered what the Luftwaffe could do against the Allies, but I'm not quite good enough at numbers to crunch it out. This game is very data-sensitive, so if you've a keen mind and a bit of time, you could learn quite a few tricks most players haven't figured out yet. I'm certain there's a way- albeit perhaps only against the inexperienced- for the German player to really tear at the Allies.

Best of luck!

(in reply to BK6583)
Post #: 11
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