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Apple apparently removing any war games with Confederat... - 6/25/2015 3:54:48 PM   
jwarrenw13

 

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http://www.businessinsider.com/apple-bans-confederate-flag-apps-2015-6

These stories started appearing about an hour ago. My intent is not to create a political discussion on the Confederate battle flag or any Confederate symbols.

In related matters, Amazon and some companies have said they will no longer sell Confederate battle flag items. And there has been discussion about whether such decisions affect, for example, book covers that may included the battle flag, and similar items.

I am genuinely curious about what Matrix is doing in response to the issue since it appears to be surprisingly spilling over into computer gaming. (My guess on this is that in the current atmosphere, some people are zealously searching out any use of the Confederate battle flag anywhere and raising objections, and companies are making business decisions relative to the matter.)

I implore my fellow forum members to not get this thread locked with unnecessary comments of the type that would cause Matrix to lock the thread before Matrix responds, if Matrix is going to respond. And thanks, Matrix, whether you decide to respond or not. I am just curious about how you plan to handle this, though you may well still be discussing it among yourselves at this point. Thanks.
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RE: Apple apparently removing any war games with Confed... - 6/25/2015 4:11:25 PM   
Chijohnaok2


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Also an article here about this same subject:

http://www.macrumors.com/2015/06/25/apple-removes-civil-war-games-confederate-flag/

Will we a year or two from now find all Civil War topic computer games consigned to the dustbin of history?

Will the games remain but be forced to have all Confederate flags depicted in the games modified to some sort of non-historical generic substitute?



< Message edited by chijohnaok -- 6/25/2015 5:13:03 PM >


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RE: Apple apparently removing any war games with Confed... - 6/25/2015 4:27:08 PM   
Aurelian

 

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So what? Many nations in Europe ban the Nazi flag. Doesn't affect in the slightest how the game plays.



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RE: Apple apparently removing any war games with Confed... - 6/25/2015 4:27:30 PM   
berto


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Unbelievable. I was waiting with bated breath for this to happen.

But still one more addition to my long list of reasons to boycott Apple.

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RE: Apple apparently removing any war games with Confed... - 6/25/2015 5:03:19 PM   
TJD

 

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Looks like the developer is not going to comply with Apple. "True stories are more important to us than money".

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RE: Apple apparently removing any war games with Confed... - 6/25/2015 5:13:23 PM   
Chijohnaok2


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It will be interesting to see what response, if any, we might see from Matrix and NorbSoftDev with regards to Scourge of War: Gettysburg (and its follow on mods--Antietam, Brandy Station, etc).

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RE: Apple apparently removing any war games with Confed... - 6/25/2015 5:27:14 PM   
jwarrenw13

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: berto


Unbelievable. I was waiting with bated breath for this to happen.

But still one more addition to my long list of reasons to boycott Apple.


I think like most things in American political and social discussion, this will only last until the next major news event. In this case, that will almost certainly be the Supreme Court decision on gay marriage, which I think will swamp all other news when it is announced Friday or Monday, no matter what the court decides. (And, no, I did not express an opinion on gay marriage, just on how we seem to run from one issue to another in America, led by the 24/7 media.) But it will still be there under the surface and will come up again.

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RE: Apple apparently removing any war games with Confed... - 6/25/2015 5:29:07 PM   
warspite1


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Not sure I even know where to begin with this

But then I do not understand why games sold in the UK do not display the Swastika; essentially "they" are saying were I to play such a game I would immediately become a disciple of Adolf Hitler, shave my head and join the British National Party

I think the best that can be said is that some of these companies are at least trying to do what they consider the right thing.

But most executives I suspect, wouldn't even be able to explain why they are seeking to ban this as they have little-to-no grasp on history and it's all about being seen to do "something" by jumping on the next bandwagon to roll into town.

What next? Yes slavery was, is and always will be totally abhorent, but where does this go? Ban the Union Jack, the French tricolour, the Spanish flag, the Belgian, the Portuguese etc etc? How many African flags could be displayed? Why is the Hammer and Sickle allowed?

Surely the best way, the only way, to beat racism (as with all mindless discrimination) is through education - and massive progress continues to be made in this across the globe. What is unhelpful is this kind of gesture politics "Ooooh look at me, I've got such a social conscience, aren't I wonderful"......


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RE: Apple apparently removing any war games with Confed... - 6/25/2015 5:36:19 PM   
willgamer


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Which flag will be removed next?



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RE: Apple apparently removing any war games with Confed... - 6/25/2015 5:39:06 PM   
TJD

 

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I hope the Dev's stance on this will encourage Matrix, Ageod, Slitherine, and Steam to hold the line too.

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RE: Apple apparently removing any war games with Confed... - 6/25/2015 6:03:48 PM   
aaatoysandmore

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: berto


Unbelievable. I was waiting with bated breath for this to happen.

But still one more addition to my long list of reasons to boycott Apple.


You mean it's taken this long? I boycotted Apple and Mac years ago in its infancy. Once I saw the Apple green and orange screens and the colorful commodore 64 colors that was it for me.

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RE: Apple apparently removing any war games with Confed... - 6/25/2015 6:10:00 PM   
berto


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I have no doubt that some among the PC Police would jump at the opportunity to shut down our entire war gaming hobby ("promotes militarism <blah blah> ..."). Not that they could ... not yet anyway.

Think it paranoia? Just to cite one example, if little boys nowadays are expelled from school for playing cops & robbers or cowboys & indians -- bang! bang! -- on the playground, how far-fetched is it to worry that the PC Police may come after us someday?

A world gone mad!

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RE: Apple apparently removing any war games with Confed... - 6/25/2015 6:10:52 PM   
aaatoysandmore

 

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That means games like Norbsoft's Gettysburg and civil war series would be banned? Ageod's Civil War II? Yes, this will be interesting to see how it turns out but I'm not boycotting Matrixgames or Slitherine over this. It wasn't the FLAGS fault. It's just a flippin symbol of an era of time in our history. I have one on my wall. Oh I want to say something you know what now but to preserve the thread I won't.

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RE: Apple apparently removing any war games with Confed... - 6/25/2015 6:21:46 PM   
berto


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quote:

ORIGINAL: aaatoysandmore

quote:

ORIGINAL: berto

Unbelievable. I was waiting with bated breath for this to happen.

But still one more addition to my long list of reasons to boycott Apple.


You mean it's taken this long? I boycotted Apple and Mac years ago in its infancy. Once I saw the Apple green and orange screens and the colorful commodore 64 colors that was it for me.

Me too. My Apple boycott dates back to c. 1980, when I bought my much more capable Commodore 64 for ~1/5th the price of the Apple IIe. Been an Apple hater ever since.

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RE: Apple apparently removing any war games with Confed... - 6/25/2015 6:23:41 PM   
KISSMEUFOOL!


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Apple...is full of vinegar!!

quote:

Which flag will be removed next?


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RE: Apple apparently removing any war games with Confed... - 6/25/2015 6:24:40 PM   
KISSMEUFOOL!


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RE: Apple apparently removing any war games with Confed... - 6/25/2015 6:49:23 PM   
milkweg


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The flag being banned is not even the historical confederate flag anyway.

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RE: Apple apparently removing any war games with Confed... - 6/25/2015 7:12:40 PM   
Zap


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Well all the noise around banning the flag caused a 9000% increase in sales of online confederate memorabilia(flags and such). So if Matrix decides to eliminate the flag I better buy SOW now before they do.

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RE: Apple apparently removing any war games with Confed... - 6/25/2015 7:13:23 PM   
Ranger33

 

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Like others said, this will all blow over and be forgotten in a few weeks. I wouldn't be surprised to see these items gradually make their way back on to store shelves in the near future.

The CEO of Wal-Mart said he was "shocked" to learn that his stores sell such items. He probably hasn't set foot in a Wal-Mart in years. None of the corporate big-wigs making these decisions to ban the flag give a single flip about it, they're only interested in good PR. They didn't care two weeks ago, they won't care in two months.

< Message edited by Ranger33 -- 6/25/2015 8:14:06 PM >

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RE: Apple apparently removing any war games with Confed... - 6/25/2015 7:13:34 PM   
Crossroads


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Madness.

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RE: Apple apparently removing any war games with Confed... - 6/25/2015 7:16:24 PM   
Crossroads


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Maybe we should just pretend history did not happen?

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RE: Apple apparently removing any war games with Confed... - 6/25/2015 7:18:46 PM   
zakblood


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quote:

ORIGINAL: chijohnaok

It will be interesting to see what response, if any, we might see from Matrix and NorbSoftDev with regards to Scourge of War: Gettysburg (and its follow on mods--Antietam, Brandy Station, etc).


as it's and many others are pc only titles, i see or would expect to see little response to apple regarding what ever they wish to do, not a apple fan myself either, over priced toys for those with far too much money and little sense, but regarding apps etc, again i can't see if effecting the site what so ever tbh so again no comment will be coming i'd guess, as as this only really concerns the US with flags and anything else related, as the rest of the world doesn't really care either what happens either way i'm sorry to say

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RE: Apple apparently removing any war games with Confed... - 6/25/2015 7:52:05 PM   
Chijohnaok2


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NorbSoftDev, the developers of Scourge of War:Gettysburg have been impacted by Apple's decision in relation to some of their other products.

Here is a post from NorbSoftDev's Facebook page:

quote:



Scourge of War
3 hrs ·
We wrote a Civil War Tower Defense Game. It's been for sale on the App Store for a number of years. Yesterday they forcibly removed it from the store with this explanation. Guess political correctness overthrows historical accuracy every time.
I only post this here because many that visit this page are players of our Gettysburg game. That game features very prominently the flags of both armies, which of course includes the confederate flag. So I thought you might be interested in seeing what happens when censorship goes out of control.
Civil War Defense and Civil War Battle Defense are our two games that got banned, but by no means are they the only ones. Most Civil War games are no longer on iTunes.
Hello,
We are writing to notify you that your app has been removed from the App Store because it includes images of the confederate flag used in offensive and mean-spirited ways.
Specifically, your app does not comply with section 19.1 of the App Store Review Guidelines:
“Apps containing references or commentary about a religious, cultural or ethnic group that are defamatory, offensive, mean-spirited or likely to expose the targeted group to harm or violence will be rejected”
At this time, your app has been removed from the App Store. We encourage you to review your app concept and incorporate different content and features that are in compliance with the App Store Review Guidelines.
Best Regards,
App Store Review


https://www.facebook.com/sowgb



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RE: Apple apparently removing any war games with Confed... - 6/25/2015 7:59:10 PM   
Chijohnaok2


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quote:

ORIGINAL: zakblood


quote:

ORIGINAL: chijohnaok

It will be interesting to see what response, if any, we might see from Matrix and NorbSoftDev with regards to Scourge of War: Gettysburg (and its follow on mods--Antietam, Brandy Station, etc).


as it's and many others are pc only titles, i see or would expect to see little response to apple regarding what ever they wish to do, not a apple fan myself either, over priced toys for those with far too much money and little sense, but regarding apps etc, again i can't see if effecting the site what so ever tbh so again no comment will be coming i'd guess, as as this only really concerns the US with flags and anything else related, as the rest of the world doesn't really care either what happens either way i'm sorry to say


Matrix may not have been impacted (yet) by this, but the developer of Scourge of War:Gettysburg has been impacted (See my post above).

At least 7 major American retailers (in addition to Apple) are pulling Confederate flags and merchandising bearing the flag from their shelves and websites

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory/retailers-banned-sales-confederate-flag-31976447

For example, I read that products related to the Dukes of Hazard tv show (the General Lee automobile) will be pulled pending the removal of the Confederate flag from the vehicle. I wouldn't think it would be a stretch to think that software products that included a representation of the Confederate flag within a game would be far behind.

And it's also not a stretch to think that this will ripple outward from those major retailers to others as well.




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RE: Apple apparently removing any war games with Confed... - 6/25/2015 8:02:22 PM   
Chijohnaok2


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zap

Well all the noise around banning the flag caused a 9000% increase in sales of online confederate memorabilia(flags and such). So if Matrix decides to eliminate the flag I better buy SOW now before they do.


That may not matter.
If NorbSoftDev (the developer of SOW:G) is pressured to remove the flag from its software, then they will do a software patch and it will filter out to anyone owning the game that accepts future patches to the game.



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RE: Apple apparently removing any war games with Confed... - 6/25/2015 8:23:51 PM   
warspite1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: chijohnaok

NorbSoftDev, the developers of Scourge of War:Gettysburg have been impacted by Apple's decision in relation to some of their other products.

Here is a post from NorbSoftDev's Facebook page:

quote:



Scourge of War
3 hrs ·
We wrote a Civil War Tower Defense Game. It's been for sale on the App Store for a number of years. Yesterday they forcibly removed it from the store with this explanation. Guess political correctness overthrows historical accuracy every time.
I only post this here because many that visit this page are players of our Gettysburg game. That game features very prominently the flags of both armies, which of course includes the confederate flag. So I thought you might be interested in seeing what happens when censorship goes out of control.
Civil War Defense and Civil War Battle Defense are our two games that got banned, but by no means are they the only ones. Most Civil War games are no longer on iTunes.
Hello,
We are writing to notify you that your app has been removed from the App Store because it includes images of the confederate flag used in offensive and mean-spirited ways.
Specifically, your app does not comply with section 19.1 of the App Store Review Guidelines:
“Apps containing references or commentary about a religious, cultural or ethnic group that are defamatory, offensive, mean-spirited or likely to expose the targeted group to harm or violence will be rejected”
At this time, your app has been removed from the App Store. We encourage you to review your app concept and incorporate different content and features that are in compliance with the App Store Review Guidelines.
Best Regards,
App Store Review


https://www.facebook.com/sowgb


warspite1

When I wrote above about people who simply do not understand what they are doing or why and are simply happy to join a bandwagon.......

I love the "Best Regards" at the end. Nice touch......

You seriously couldn't make it up

I recommend Scourge of War Waterloo be removed from sale immediately. I mean the British and French had colonial empires at the time. Oh and the Prussians? They became Germany and Germany created the Nazis and they were like really bad an' stuff.

File under "The world is potty".


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RE: Apple apparently removing any war games with Confed... - 6/25/2015 8:31:43 PM   
Jevhaddah


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Apple... Rotten to the Core...

Boycotted Apple since the 1980's, but as a Computer Science Lecturer I had to use them every day as the staff office was full of them... sigh

Cheers

Jev

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RE: Apple apparently removing any war games with Confed... - 6/25/2015 8:32:03 PM   
vonRocko

 

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I can hardly stand this **** anymore. Prior to 1862, every American flag was a slave flag.It is sick how we cater to 12% of the population.
I may not agree with what you say (or flag you wave), but I would give my life for your right to say it(or fly it).
What ever happened to this concept?
Of course it is for our "own good".

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RE: Apple apparently removing any war games with Confed... - 6/25/2015 8:40:21 PM   
TJD

 

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The Steam forum for this game echoes all of the sentiments expressed here.

Please, Matrix/Slith/Ageod, don't panic like Apple. Let it end here.

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RE: Apple apparently removing any war games with Confed... - 6/25/2015 8:47:27 PM   
loki100


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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Not sure I even know where to begin with this

But then I do not understand why games sold in the UK do not display the Swastika; essentially "they" are saying were I to play such a game I would immediately become a disciple of Adolf Hitler, shave my head and join the British National Party

I think the best that can be said is that some of these companies are at least trying to do what they consider the right thing.

...

What next? Yes slavery was, is and always will be totally abhorent, but where does this go? Ban the Union Jack, the French tricolour, the Spanish flag, the Belgian, the Portuguese etc etc? How many African flags could be displayed? Why is the Hammer and Sickle allowed?



agree, in this context this is a spectacularly silly decision.

There is a specific issue with the swastika etc. When I was working as a mod on the paradox forums, there were two strands to the ban. One was that publishers were really worried about the implications of the German laws in this regard and, given digital download, there was no way they could keep copies sold into Germany apart from the rest of the world (even if it was financially viable to produce a with/out version). The second was that there is small but real portion among those with a taste for WW2 era games who are *ahem* a wee bit enthusiastic about adolf et al. So the ban removed debate and grey areas and just made life easy all around.

I know this is inconsistent as a number of ex-Soviet republics have similar bans concerning Soviet emblems. Equally I still treasure the long and irate PM I got from someone who really beieved that Stalin was a really nice man and I was being grossly unfair in suggesting otherwise. Specifically you'll be pleased to know that Beria was a real cutie who stopped all abuses by the NKVD. So it tends to be an illogically conceived, but pretty sensible, rule.

Now of course, the Union Jack should be banned, and the Saltire . I mean think of all the past crimes committed under those banners.

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