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Radars and Jamming , Eternal War - 5/27/2015 11:20:26 PM   
Triode

 

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Joined: 9/26/2014
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Currently , in game we have very simplified radars and jammers .

I'm not complaining, simple things not always bad thing , but I think in case of CMANO situation can be improved
by using actual mathematical model of jamming (instead of "turn jamm on/off" logic now) and adding real functional modes for radars (instead of on/off logic now)

So, lets start with radars modes of operation ,I list only Soviet/Russian anti air defence thing, from old ones to more modern

coherent radiation mode - used in S-25 system
really bad mode, vulnerable to passive jamming defenseless against acive jamming

monochromatic radiation mode - main mode for S-75,S-125,S-200 etc systems and for many Soviet Navy systems
still in use for some FCR radars in systems with SARH guided missiles (MR-90 Orekh)
main good things about this mode is range (when in advertising is written "maximum range" for non PESA/AESA radar most likely this is range in monochromatic radiation mode)and how good monochromatic singnals guide SARH missiles
problem is in this mode radar cant see targets with radial velocity less than 25 m/s also this mode vulnerable to passive and active jamming


phase-code manipulation mode - second S-200 FCR mode (first is monochromatic radiation mode) for more accurate measurement of distance to target(direct measurement instead 3D approximation) ,used only against long range targes not used in other system ,very slow mode (30 sec for cycle)


continuous frequency modulation mode - (S-75,S-125,S-200 etc systems)only detection mode not used in FCR, first atempt to create jamming resistant mode(with limited sucсess in case of passive jamming) and solve problem of slow speed targets(total success)
problem is loses in range 60-70% in comparison to monochromatic radiation


discontinuous frequency modulation mode - (S-75,S-200 etc systems)detection and FCR mode, ,in this mode loses in range in comparison to monochromatic radiation mode is 40-50% while still can see slow targets
but protection against jamming decreased to such level that even clouds greatly affect signal in this mode,
this mode cant be used in system with SARH missiles


discontinuous linear frequency modulation mode - most widely used radar mod in "after 1985 no AESA/PESA" radars,
S-75M4,S-200D recive this mode,some resistance to active and passive jamming (still bad protection against active/passive combined jamming), good mode for FCR radars that guide SARH missiles (Shtil-1,Buk-M1-2 etc)
loses in range in comparison to monochromatic radiation mode is 30-40%

P.S. here is http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/fb.asp?m=3817405
CV60 cant understand why old P-15 have more range than more modern P-19, reason is simple P-15 have monochromatic radiation mode and P-19 dont, P-19 have discontinuous linear frequency modulation mode


phase frequency scanning mode -(MR-710 Fregat,MR-800 Flag,MR-650 Podberezovik ) mode exclusively designed for Soviet Navy post 80s radars ,"Browse of space is performed by frequency scanning rays "pencil" type in a vertical plane with circular rotating electromechanical antenna in the horizontal plane.
Scanning beam occurs due to the discrete frequency measurement signal emitted from pulse to pulse on a predetermined schedule" basically mode without problem with low speed targets, without loss in range in comparison to monochromatic radiation mode , but you cant use this mod in FCR, resistance to jamming is good due to automatic compensator of active noise interference(in West known as Sidelobe Cancelling technique)

And finaly S-300 and other PESA/AESA mode:

amplitude, frequency or phase electron beam scanning modes (in case of S-400 radars also polarization electron beam scanning) - and finaly why S-300 so good , thank to use of FHSS(each signal can be at new frequency) and automatic compensator of jamming
russian PESA/AESA totally ignore such jamming as: Spot jamming,DRFM jamming (aka creating of false targets),
Sweep jamming(well off course if this is not 100000 jammers)
what jamming still affect Russian radars with this modes: Barrage jamming (in case of S-400 in polarization electron beam scanning mode also largely ineffective ), combined Barrage jamming + passive countermeasures in the air (when jamming signal reflect from this cloud of countermeasures this create "100000 jammers" picture that can jamm everything, off course if there is enough power in signal)

in case someone want to see what automatic compensator of jamming is :

on this picture under the main radar, three round antenna in a row ,this is antennas is recivers of automatic compensators (funny thing, they can work as backup for main receiver)

few link about auto compensators
http://ethw.org/First-Hand:Sidelobe_Cancellers_and_the_Like
http://russianpatents.com/patent/229/2291459.html#

for radar modes and resistance to jamming there is "Study on enhancing jamming resistance and conveys more information for SAM radiotechnical systems" code "Activism-85" in russian
https://disk.yandex.ru/public/?hash=LG0qrEbxgumbtwBgZbrFcuwjDD109HP1afERF8lkrsA%3D part 1
https://disk.yandex.ru/public/?hash=zZ0jq6WsW05I%2BvF%2BK9zYdCGgMMloousG0a4dFxKkAig%3D part 2
https://disk.yandex.ru/public/?hash=PWi17rOt%2Bo/PBBHzeQJoVeL0aE%2BxEL4g1%2BEF1fcCdpg%3D part 3

enough for today

small announcement for tomorrow:
-types of jamming , strong/weak side of different types
-how to calculate range from which radar can burn through using data about radar, jamming station and mathematics
-Export models of S-300 what are the differences with the home versions

Post #: 1
RE: Radars and Jamming , Eternal War - 5/28/2015 7:37:09 AM   
p1t1o

 

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I'm all for more detail, but how many frames per minute would you like this simulation to run at?

(in reply to Triode)
Post #: 2
RE: Radars and Jamming , Eternal War - 5/28/2015 11:25:20 AM   
PN79

 

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Hello Triode,
I have remark to your post about operating modes. SA-2 and SA-3 do not use monochromatic radiation mode, they are "track while scan" systems like SA-1 just with ability to "track" only one target (i.e. getting precise info about range, height and azimuth) but number of displayed targets is unlimited even during guiding missiles (targets just has to be in scanned area).

SA-2 and SA-3 has thus limitation against targets which have ground (hills) behind them with relation to radar position as then radar operators can not distinguish target against background. In this operation there is no limitation by radial velocity of target. Later variants of SA-2 (in its all three families: Dvina [Fan Song A, B, F], Desna [Fan Song C], Volkhov [Fan Song E]) and SA-3 got impulse doppler mode for ability to distinguish moving target against static background. This is limited by radial velocity of target but it is used only when it is needed against low flying targets.

Also SA-2 and SA-3 uses command guided missiles against semi-active radar homing missiles in SA-5. Esspecially SA-2 was created for large crew with many things done manually or with manual backup. That means that SA-2 doesn't have to use radar at all to guide missiles - operators can just send command info to the missile via datalink where to fly. Fan Song F uses this with its "doghouse" to guide missiles manually against target seen with optic. Later variants of Fan Song E uses more modern system through "Karat" camera.

SA-2 and SA-3 are limited by number of guided missiles at the same time by available command links (SA-2: three, SA-3: two). SA-5 can guide unlimited number of missiles against target - it just iluminates target and there is no limit how many SARH missiles can use that illumination.

As for jamming - there is link to awesome US 1962 instructional video about ECM equipment: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyFqaaqqph0

Regards,
Pavel Novak

< Message edited by PN79 -- 5/28/2015 12:27:34 PM >

(in reply to p1t1o)
Post #: 3
RE: Radars and Jamming , Eternal War - 5/28/2015 4:38:49 PM   
solidgeoff

 

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Joined: 2/19/2015
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I'd be happy with just a way to see how effective my jamming is. Like, range or something. I still feel lost on the best way to send jammers on strikes without good feedback.

(in reply to PN79)
Post #: 4
RE: Radars and Jamming , Eternal War - 5/28/2015 4:56:51 PM   
ComDev

 

Posts: 5735
Joined: 5/12/2006
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Thanks for your input on this guys

We have a lot on our wish-list and improved elecronic warfare is one of them. This is a complex subject and so we need to limit the model's scope where it makes sense to do so. The big question is where to draw the line given this is a tactical simulator and not a systems simulator. We also have (relatively) limited computing power (four-core i7 typically) and new EW functionality has to use as few CPU cycles as possible. Not easy.

The biggest shortcoming as I see it right now is the fact that jammers attack more radars than they can in real life, and that noise jamming effectiveness is not affected by jammer and radar generations. So I think that jammer target limitations, automatic jammer target prioritization logics and generation func should be addressed first.

When that is said, we're no longer in sprint-mode development-wise (and haven't been for ca 18 months) so development of complex new functionality will have to be spread out in time. So we give absolutely no promises on ETA for new stuff. We have a 'wish list' where you can vote for what you think is most important to add next, and we'll use that to help decide on where our time is best spent supporting this sim.

Thanks again everyone



_____________________________



Developer "Command: Modern Air/Naval Operations" project!

(in reply to PN79)
Post #: 5
RE: Radars and Jamming , Eternal War - 5/29/2015 5:39:30 AM   
magi

 

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Joined: 2/1/2014
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Nice response emsoy..........

(in reply to ComDev)
Post #: 6
RE: Radars and Jamming , Eternal War - 5/29/2015 9:26:59 PM   
Triode

 

Posts: 283
Joined: 9/26/2014
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quote:

ORIGINAL: PN79

Hello Triode,
I have remark to your post about operating modes. SA-2 and SA-3 do not use monochromatic radiation mode, they are "track while scan" systems like SA-1 just with ability to "track" only one target (i.e. getting precise info about range, height and azimuth) but number of displayed targets is unlimited even during guiding missiles (targets just has to be in scanned area).

Regards,
Pavel Novak


yes my mistake,RSN-75 and SNR-125 dont have this mode, actually i think about "Kasta" through "Vozdukh-1M"
with RSN-75 and SNR-125 only for guidance of missiles



about burn through :"EW 101: a first course in Electronic Warfare" by David L. Adamy
https://books.google.by/books?id=ANEM6nI3tosC&printsec=frontcover&hl=ru#v=onepage&q&f=false
on pages 189-192 there is "burn-through" simplified equations

funny that in "Handbook of officer air and space defense" 2006 on page 537-538 there is more complex equations
with a larger number of variables for the same "burn-through"
http://guap.ru/guap/kaf71/meth/4_12.pdf in russian


main types of jamming:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radar_jamming_and_deception


< Message edited by Triode -- 5/29/2015 10:27:37 PM >

(in reply to magi)
Post #: 7
RE: Radars and Jamming , Eternal War - 5/29/2015 9:46:36 PM   
kgambit

 

Posts: 72
Joined: 1/9/2015
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A different link to an English version:

http://jacquesricher.com/EWhdbk/Burnthru.pdf

If you google

EW 104: Electronic Warfare Against a New Generation of Threats
By David L. Adamy

there is a readable section on the jamming equations with example calculations

< Message edited by kgambit -- 5/29/2015 11:00:43 PM >

(in reply to Triode)
Post #: 8
RE: Radars and Jamming , Eternal War - 6/5/2015 1:17:49 PM   
AlmightyTallest

 

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Joined: 2/25/2014
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Thought this declassified report on Jamming during Vietnam might provide some insight. Very interesting information presented in the pdf.

Called "Tactics and Techniques of Electronic Warfare"

http://www.afhso.af.mil/shared/media/document/AFD-110323-034.pdf

And a declassified U.S. Air force video from 1962 showcasing some aircraft ECM systems and what they do.

https://youtu.be/pyFqaaqqph0?list=FLUbMa9kEYoLP3_Zlc2nzVPA

< Message edited by AlmightyTallest -- 6/5/2015 2:25:49 PM >

(in reply to kgambit)
Post #: 9
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