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New Scenario - 5/10/2015 5:08:39 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 14464
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		OK I have been for long time been wanting to go back and revisit scenario 1.

I think everyone knows the history but just in case the main criticism of the AI in WITP is that it was to boring so when we launched the Admiral's Edition I took
some of the best of what I had seen in PBEM and put those additional strategies into the Ai

Now for about 3 months after release all was well everyone was surprised at how aggressive the AI was and it caught a few folks out - BUT its a scripted AI and lets face it
Vets quickly adapted and we ended up with an AI that was probably too aggressive and wasted a lot of assets

So I started adding in Ironman variants and we went down that route to keep the AI challenging but that took the game further and further away from History into fantasy war in the
pacific mcphie style.

What I am now trying to do is recognising time has moved and players don't want an AI that suicides on Sydney harbour any more I am trying to re write the AI for scen 1 to be more stable
and give a better game - its still not ever going to be as good as a human player but trying to make it a little better.

So this is where I am up to so far

SCEN 1 NORMAL MAP (NOT EXTENDED)
No Ahistoric forces
Everything I have been able to fix in the database I have
Only 1 AI script at present trying to get that one right before looking at Variants
In addition to changes to the AI script for both sides the following additional Scenario Adjustments have been made

Bases

1. Many additional bases added in Burma and Malaya to help the AI manage continental warfare a little better
2. Supply caps added to a large proportion of bases to make it more difficult for large stacks to operate
3. I recommend using the stacking limits map - its not essential but is recommended

LCU's
No major changes I am aware of a couple of renames is all eg Dutch Marine Bde renamed
22th EA Bde delayed a further year

Devices
Per the last update except for reduction in number of Brit 43 and 44 squads with a small change to one of the convoys to give a one off injection to allow upgrades - British Units will need to be cannibalised at some stage or kept away from
combat
Observor corps load cost reduced from 20 to 2 to allow air transport

Aircraft
All FAA Aircraft are now CW nationality
Small number of Fairey battle's added as they were a common training type in Australia/NZ and Canada - fair warning they are crap but if you need a bomber...
A couple of FB's (Two of the Beaufighter marks) have been changed from FB to Attack Bomber as I believe that's a better reflection in the code of how they actually operated

Anyway what I need is a few testers I think I have picked up most AI issues including the PH bug and eliminated it but you simply never know if you have caught everything - I hope I have but who knows until its tested

Andy

V3 now posted

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Andy Mac -- 5/21/2015 10:16:35 PM >
Post #: 1
RE: New Scenario - 5/10/2015 5:11:02 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 14464
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		Just so everyone is clear this is SCEN 1 HISTORIC with no additional bells and whistles so its just a small modification to the standard Scen 1 its what I would have put out as my next iteration of a standard Scen 1 if I had been able to patch and convinced the old air and naval leads of my relatively small change list above

(in reply to Andy Mac)
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RE: New Scenario - 5/10/2015 5:16:58 PM   
Big B

 

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Status: offline 		Great!

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RE: New Scenario - 5/10/2015 5:45:12 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 14464
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		The focus has been on the AI script and trying to make it slightly more sensible and not waste assets the way it used to.

That means there will be some things that differ from the current AI and some of the more risky attacks wont happen

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RE: New Scenario - 5/10/2015 5:58:20 PM   
chemkid

 

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< Message edited by chemkid -- 4/25/2018 11:25:07 AM >

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RE: New Scenario - 5/10/2015 6:41:56 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 14464
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		Should work for both more testing on the Japanese side but should be ok

Its beta at present I still want to go through and fix some more things but this should work for both

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RE: New Scenario - 5/10/2015 6:49:08 PM   
chemkid

 

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< Message edited by chemkid -- 4/25/2018 11:35:28 AM >

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RE: New Scenario - 5/10/2015 7:10:38 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 14464
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		One question does anyone actually play PDU off now ??

The AI is always disadvantaged as it has to in effect play PDU - Off

So I could go through and make the upgrade paths more sensible i.e. more akin to what a PDU = on game would look like but it would destroy it for anyone that does still play PDU = off ??

So does anyone still play PDU = Off even v the AI ??

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RE: New Scenario - 5/10/2015 9:53:38 PM   
wdolson

 

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From: Near Portland, OR
Status: offline 		I've always played PDU on, but you could either make separate scenarios for PDU off and on, or Michael could probably add some detection of the PDU setting available to the AI.

Bill

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Post #: 9
RE: New Scenario - 5/10/2015 9:54:32 PM   
bomccarthy


Posts: 350
Joined: 9/6/2013
From: L.A.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac


Bases

1. Many additional bases added in Burma and Malaya to help the AI manage continental warfare a little better
2. Supply caps added to a large proportion of bases to make it more difficult for large stacks to operate
3. I recommend using the stacking limits map - its not essential but is recommended





Sorry if I misread some threads wayback, but does the AI act in accordance with the stacking limits map? I seem to recall some claiming that the AI would pile LCUs into a hex, regardless of the stacking limits, thereby suffering major supply penalties. Or will your new scenario resolve this possible issue?

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 10
RE: New Scenario - 5/10/2015 10:15:47 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 14464
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		I will need to ch3eck with Michael on that ppoint

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RE: New Scenario - 5/10/2015 10:19:24 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 14464
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		Missed a PH bugger will need to keep looking

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Post #: 12
RE: New Scenario - 5/10/2015 10:53:08 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 14464
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		I had forgotten how hard this was 1st time around trying to achieve good results without artificially boosting the AI with additional forces = hard

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Post #: 13
RE: New Scenario - 5/10/2015 11:09:01 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 14464
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		The most difficult thing is trying to reduce the AI's transport losses in Ironman variants I did it by adding addiontal light escorts and making the Armed Merchant Cruisers scary - trying to do it without the benefit of additional toys is proving a challenge !!!

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Post #: 14
RE: New Scenario - 5/11/2015 6:29:50 AM   
JeffroK


Posts: 6306
Joined: 1/26/2005
Status: offline 		I'll give it a bash.

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RE: New Scenario - 5/11/2015 7:09:50 AM   
JeffroK


Posts: 6306
Joined: 1/26/2005
Status: offline 		FIRST TURN, HISTORICAL

Pearl Harbor, 5 USN BB's, CL Phoenix & 5 DD's

Malaya, BC Repulse & 2 DD's

Did the IJN get Weeties for breakie!

Lots of little dots to fight for in Burma.



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Post #: 16
RE: New Scenario - 5/11/2015 1:12:09 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 14464
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		Thanks

yes the dots are designed to help the AI by allowing it to be better directed and by putting a large barrier right across burma with low supply thresholds making it harder to supply big stacks in upper burma

I would also like to add a few more to Australia especially small coastal dots on the Kalgoorlie to Adeilade line and maybe a few more in North Australia before I finalise the AI but not sure of which ones to add as my Australian maps are all modern ones.

By adding more dots I can make supply harder to transport and give more options for base building

Andy

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Post #: 17
RE: New Scenario - 5/11/2015 1:36:27 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 14464
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		While I am still rebuilding the AI now is the time I want to add an other bases to the list so I am looking at India/Australia a SE Asia to try and check if I need more bases

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RE: New Scenario - 5/11/2015 2:06:59 PM   
US87891

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac
While I am still rebuilding the AI now is the time I want to add an other bases to the list so I am looking at India/Australia a SE Asia to try and check if I need more bases

Hello,
John added many new bases to Australia and New Zealand for the small map scenarios. If you go here, https://sites.google.com/site/dababeswitpae/5-small-scenarios/operation-sf grab the preview, and look at the locations file, most of the new things start at 1600. They include the 10 NW India bases that Andrew added, but which can be omitted. Might be worth a look.
Matt


< Message edited by US87891 -- 5/11/2015 3:07:38 PM >

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Post #: 19
RE: New Scenario - 5/11/2015 5:20:46 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 14464
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		Thanks Matt will take a look I dont want to get too deep into the AI re write before I finish adding the new bases I need as its a PITA to go back and add after you have the AI working

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Post #: 20
RE: New Scenario - 5/12/2015 3:54:08 AM   
Big B

 

Posts: 4855
Joined: 6/1/2005
From: Old Los Angeles pre-1960
Status: offline 		Go Andy, Go
I have had players email me and tell me that the PH bug renders playing against the AI unplayable... a good riddance to this bug would greatly benefit numerous players I am guessing.
It could make playing the AI much more pleasing ...

B

quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

Missed a PH bugger will need to keep looking



< Message edited by Big B -- 5/12/2015 4:55:20 AM >

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RE: New Scenario - 5/12/2015 7:10:09 AM   
JeffroK


Posts: 6306
Joined: 1/26/2005
Status: offline 		Re PH, in my turn KB retired on Day 2.

Andy, any AI behaviors you want checked out?

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RE: New Scenario - 5/12/2015 8:56:54 AM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 14464
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		I am specifically looking out for any remaining instances of

1. The PH bug
2. AI wasting assets for this core scen1 AI I want the AI to be methodical and not waste assets

I know that a good player will take advantage of the methodical nature of this AI so there are a few places that the AI will probably struggle but thats ok because this is the new core module so I can build on it.

Basically this is an AI suitable for a new player so I want it to be carefull witrh assets

Later on I will build up Scen 2/ Ironman/ Ironman Nasty where the AI can take more losses but for now I want to walk before I try to run.

So the AI is to not waste assets not take mad risks and try to take all of the 10 key bases

(Singapore, Clark Field, Hong Kong, Bataan, Manila, Soerbaja, Palembang, Rangoon, Rabaul, Lunga)

I will add variants to cover Midway, PM, deep strikes raids etc etc but what I have now is hopefulkly a bug free base line AI that does the historic Japanese expansion roughly on timescale with minimum losses

Andy
Andy

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RE: New Scenario - 5/12/2015 9:06:01 AM   
chemkid

 

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< Message edited by chemkid -- 4/25/2018 11:35:22 AM >

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RE: New Scenario - 5/12/2015 9:15:13 AM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 14464
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		Its so much easier now that Michael has added which script LCU's Air and TF's are following you are never flying as blind as when I first did the AI

Have to say it is soooo much more straight forward.

Doing the AI now is less trial and error and more planning.

Andy

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RE: New Scenario - 5/12/2015 3:22:14 PM   
US87891

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac
Thanks Matt will take a look I dont want to get too deep into the AI re write before I finish adding the new bases I need as its a PITA to go back and add after you have the AI working

Hello,

Once you have your new bases would you send them to us, please? I think you have John's email you can get mine using Matrix pm contact. We are very interested in this and will adapt BabesLite, and as moch of Big Babes as we can to use the new scripts. Obviously, we need to know your base list

Thanks much in advance. Matt

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Post #: 26
RE: New Scenario - 5/12/2015 5:01:34 PM   
drw61


Posts: 893
Joined: 6/30/2004
From: South Carolina
Status: offline 		Andy, Thanks for doing this. Your continuing support is very much appreciated! I'll add this one to the Scenarios Available link.

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Post #: 27
RE: New Scenario - 5/12/2015 5:03:22 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 14464
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		Ok will do.

Most of the bases will be in Burma and Malaya to make the AI operate more effectivelly in those two locations.

I will be adding a few in Australia probbaly not as many as you have added and mostly in the West and North primarily dot bases to allow for AI staging if its trying to fight back.

The scripted AI as opposed to the exe AI is poor at defences that happen outside of base hexes so I want to add some more dot's primarily at choke points like Sittang Bridge to help me steer the AI and let it see those bases and hexes as valid objectives.

I think it probably goes back to Pac War where all combat happened in base hexes.

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Post #: 28
RE: New Scenario - 5/12/2015 5:06:50 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 14464
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		drw61 this is very much still in beta so its a test bed only for now.

The big decisions I need to make are

1. Air Groups the AI is poor at withdrawal even when a replacement group is waiting to arrive so do I reconfigure some or all of them via aircraft upgrades and size changes rather than having wholesale withdrawals and replacement by a new sqn a few weeks later

2. Air Group upgrade paths some of them are historical but the AI thinks a fighter is a fighter so it uses Nates until 44 do I reconfigure to add in at least and Oscar upgrade not sure its the PDU v non PDU argument.

3. Extent of new bases to many makes it harder but some new ones are needed to help steer the AI especially in the much fought over portions of the map

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Post #: 29
RE: New Scenario - 5/12/2015 7:24:45 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 14464
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		Are there any material bases that people believe should be added I am not promising to include them but before I get too deep into the re write I thought I would ask ?

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Post #: 30
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