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full campaign time - 4/22/2015 2:03:45 PM   
fulcrum28


Posts: 432
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hello,

After playing some small scenarios against PC, I'm considering to play a full campaign against PC controlling the Japanese side.

I have a concern about the time necessary for that huge campaign.

1)Do you recommend me to set up the turn length to 1 day or 2 or 3 days to reduce the playing time?
2)has someone of you finished such a full campaign and if so how long did it take?
3)finally, China front should be omitted (controlled by Pc or playing the full campaign with quiet china option?

Thank you in advance, and look forward to reading the opinion of expert players on the full campaign.

Kind regards
Post #: 1
RE: full campaign time - 4/22/2015 4:01:33 PM   
Feltan


Posts: 1150
Joined: 12/5/2006
From: Kansas
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fulcrum28,

It is all about the journey, and less about the destination.

Be that as it may, I am on my second campaign against the AI -- one turn days.  Your turn rate will vary from mine, but the first one took a little more than 18 months to get into '44 when the Japanese auto-surrendered.

Regards,
Feltan

(in reply to fulcrum28)
Post #: 2
RE: full campaign time - 4/22/2015 8:01:30 PM   
witpaemail

 

Posts: 119
Joined: 3/2/2015
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quote:

ORIGINAL: fulcrum28

hello,

After playing some small scenarios against PC, I'm considering to play a full campaign against PC controlling the Japanese side.

I have a concern about the time necessary for that huge campaign.

1)Do you recommend me to set up the turn length to 1 day or 2 or 3 days to reduce the playing time?
2)has someone of you finished such a full campaign and if so how long did it take?
3)finally, China front should be omitted (controlled by Pc or playing the full campaign with quiet china option?

Thank you in advance, and look forward to reading the opinion of expert players on the full campaign.

Kind regards


The multi-day options dont affect the AI. The AI always plays 1 day turns. You will only be given a chance to change orders every however many days you set it to, but the AI changes every day regardless. Some people use it to handicap themselves against the AI.

(in reply to fulcrum28)
Post #: 3
RE: full campaign time - 4/22/2015 8:15:51 PM   
bomccarthy


Posts: 338
Joined: 9/6/2013
From: L.A.
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Because you're playing the AI, you can vary the turn length. I would suggest starting out on 1 day turns, until the "situation" stabilizes (later in '42). Then, you can switch to 2 day turns, or even 3 day turns if you're feeling confident. But be ready to switch back to 1 day turns for important operations or battles with the KB.

I'm starting Nov '45 in my first campaign game (as Allies, against the AI) -- I started it more almost 4 years ago. My work schedule generally prevents me from playing more than 2-2.5 hours in the evening and 4 hours per day on the weekend. Things really slowed down in '45, with all of the Allied air reinforcements -- a turn now takes at least 4 hours to complete, or two weeknights of real time. I've kept it on 1 day turns since the middle of '44, since I regularly rotate air groups for rest. I achieved auto-vic in Jan '45, but kept playing to see how the final air and land campaign plays out. I played with an active Chinese campaign, which really helps in the final years, since the AI is not very good at ground operations -- it is easy to pocket large Japanese formations when you go on the offensive in Burma in late '43.

I hope this doesn't scare you -- in the early years of the campaign I could sometimes get through two turns in 2 hours. Once you develop a routine for getting through all of the elements of a turn, they can go fairly quickly.

(in reply to Feltan)
Post #: 4
RE: full campaign time - 4/22/2015 9:00:25 PM   
crsutton


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Well, it took Viberpol and I four years to complete our first campaign. And over a year into our second. At least the AI is always ready to return your turn...

< Message edited by crsutton -- 4/22/2015 10:00:54 PM >


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(in reply to bomccarthy)
Post #: 5
RE: full campaign time - 4/23/2015 1:05:47 PM   
wegman58

 

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I started in September and have just gotten to early January 1943. I did Sir Robin early (with the exception of a fruitless stand at Rangoon that wound up killing a LOT of IJA troops and aircraft - more than I lost).

Carrier fleets on both sides are alive and well, and until I get Hellcats my carriers won't be too aggressive.

(in reply to crsutton)
Post #: 6
RE: full campaign time - 4/24/2015 11:54:17 PM   
rustysi


Posts: 5913
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
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I've been playng as Japan in my current AI game for just over one year now, and I'm only in July '42. I prefer one day turns and I'm still in learning mode. I also need to get away from the game every so often, so I'll play something else for about one week.

_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

(in reply to wegman58)
Post #: 7
RE: full campaign time - 4/25/2015 4:26:56 PM   
pbiggar

 

Posts: 48
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From: Winnipeg, Canada
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Typically, how long does it take the average player to complete their input for a turn? I am new to the game but it seems to be over an hour for me playing the allies in 1942 (Grand Campaign)

(in reply to rustysi)
Post #: 8
RE: full campaign time - 4/25/2015 4:27:50 PM   
Numdydar

 

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It took me, with one day turns, 3.5 years to complete a PBEM game as Japan into '45 where an Allied AV occurred. Of course I had already had 'won' the game in '43 with an AV by overrunning China . But we determined a line in China before that occurred and agreed to that no one would do anything in China until '45. Which allowed the game to continue.

We tried to do a turn a day which breaks as needed. On the weekends we could do 2. Our high point was 4 in a day

So if you want to go the full distance, it will be over a year before you are done. Unless you are a) single, b) rich and/or retired, c) you have no other distractions, and d) all you do is play WitP can you do a game in a short period of time. (<6 months). Assuming you give the AI a break and do not push hard in the beginning so the game will last into the late war period.

I've played two full games now as Japan (plus ones that did not go very far) and have moved on to other games. I have not played WitP in 9 months. What can I say. Steam keeps having weekly deals on games I'm interested in lol.

But as you can tell, this game is a way of life, not a game. You can find out more on the background of WitP by reading my 'Queen of the Pacific' article at the Wargammer.

http://www.wargamer.com/Article/3490

(in reply to rustysi)
Post #: 9
RE: full campaign time - 4/26/2015 11:07:25 AM   
pelthunter

 

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I prefer 1 day turns, but I set messages to fastest and skip most bombing action unless it is against naval targets. If you want to give more edge to the AI, use 3 day turns.

Usually it takes me about 10 minutes to process a turn, sometimes a bit quicker with skipping bombings.

What takes long time for me is the initial campaign start. Day or two to set up.

I also use manual sub patrols but I concentrate my subs into groups of four or so in order to save time. Single subs would be too much work imo.

(in reply to Numdydar)
Post #: 10
RE: full campaign time - 4/26/2015 8:06:13 PM   
rustysi


Posts: 5913
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
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quote:

What takes long time for me is the initial campaign start. Day or two to set up.


That's all.

_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

(in reply to pelthunter)
Post #: 11
RE: full campaign time - 4/26/2015 10:29:14 PM   
buncheesy

 

Posts: 34
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New Player here OMG!!!

I knew I was crazy buying this game.

(in reply to rustysi)
Post #: 12
RE: full campaign time - 4/26/2015 10:53:08 PM   
Numdydar

 

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Well you are not crazy until you are into mid '42 and deciding where to attack as the Allies and planning it out on paper (or spreadsheet). Then and only then are you an official member of our little group.

Oh and it has to be a GC too. Not of these piddly scenarios for you

(in reply to buncheesy)
Post #: 13
RE: full campaign time - 4/26/2015 11:03:05 PM   
rustysi


Posts: 5913
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Numdydar

Well you are not crazy until you are into mid '42 and deciding where to attack as the Allies and planning it out on paper (or spreadsheet). Then and only then are you an official member of our little group.

Oh and it has to be a GC too. Not of these piddly scenarios for you


Heresy, heresy... Coming from the guy who hasn't played in 9 months.


_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

(in reply to Numdydar)
Post #: 14
RE: full campaign time - 4/26/2015 11:06:41 PM   
rustysi


Posts: 5913
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: letmein

New Player here OMG!!!

I knew I was crazy buying this game.


I've played these games since forever and this is one of the best. If you can get by the initial shock and enjoy these type games you will have a great time.


_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

(in reply to buncheesy)
Post #: 15
RE: full campaign time - 4/27/2015 1:03:54 AM   
CaptBeefheart


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From: Seoul, Korea
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Against the AI there are a lot of ways to save time, such as automated sub warfare, two-day turns, doing housekeeping such as pilot training just once a month and setting up CS convoys. You can also turn off all animations and combat reports and set all messages to the minimum time. I can usually get it down to 20 minutes a turn after a month or so of game time, with a few longer turns during invasions and the like later on. In other words, think of it as a handicap when playing against the AI if you don't spend a lot of time with each turn. The downside to that is if you switch to PBEM, like I did, you may have some bad habits to shed.

Cheers,
CC

_____________________________

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(in reply to rustysi)
Post #: 16
RE: full campaign time - 4/27/2015 4:20:59 AM   
Numdydar

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi


quote:

ORIGINAL: Numdydar

Well you are not crazy until you are into mid '42 and deciding where to attack as the Allies and planning it out on paper (or spreadsheet). Then and only then are you an official member of our little group.

Oh and it has to be a GC too. Not of these piddly scenarios for you


Heresy, heresy... Coming from the guy who hasn't played in 9 months.



Have you seen my spreadsheets, my Wargamer article? Or how about this little document? http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3329605

Although it is now on page 4 in the War Room so not as prominent as it once was

So even with a 9 month break, I still have the koolaid in my blood. And you know how difficult koolaid stains are to get out

(in reply to rustysi)
Post #: 17
RE: full campaign time - 4/27/2015 5:28:58 AM   
rustysi


Posts: 5913
Joined: 2/21/2012
From: LI, NY
Status: offline
I've read everything of yours that I could find. You are one of my mentors on this site. So when I get my butt kicked in a PBEM... Its all your fault.

_____________________________

It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

(in reply to Numdydar)
Post #: 18
RE: full campaign time - 4/27/2015 8:47:39 AM   
witpaemail

 

Posts: 119
Joined: 3/2/2015
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quote:

ORIGINAL: pbiggar

Typically, how long does it take the average player to complete their input for a turn? I am new to the game but it seems to be over an hour for me playing the allies in 1942 (Grand Campaign)



The first turn takes me 16-20 hours (game time) to get everything set up the way I want it depending on the side. After that about an hour a turn, with some longer ones here and there to double check stuff.

(in reply to pbiggar)
Post #: 19
RE: full campaign time - 4/27/2015 12:31:00 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 17325
Joined: 2/25/2013
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The AI really needs the advantage of 2 day turns, plus it causes you to really think things thru.

I find it takes me a little longer to do a 2 day turn, than a 1 day turn.

Generally, when I play the AI I turn off all combat animations and show combat reports, and set message speed to fastest and walk away. Then I use Combat Reporter to check out the action.

I then really do my turn checking on combat areas, but rotate rear areas to a different one each turn for closer attention. Australia one day, America another, etc, and just keep going around the world that way. Not uncommon to have reinforcements sit for a several days before getting orders.

It is a long war.

You don't have to do monster marathon first turns, but break the work down into smaller sections done over several days or weeks. Especially true for games against the AI.

(in reply to witpaemail)
Post #: 20
RE: full campaign time - 4/27/2015 4:28:47 PM   
Numdydar

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rustysi

I've read everything of yours that I could find. You are one of my mentors on this site. So when I get my butt kicked in a PBEM... Its all your fault.


Well you are in good company as I have always lost my games as Japan . Except against the AI of course.

Thanks so much for the nice comment as well.

(in reply to rustysi)
Post #: 21
RE: full campaign time - 4/27/2015 10:02:27 PM   
buncheesy

 

Posts: 34
Joined: 8/26/2013
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Numdydar

Well you are not crazy until you are into mid '42 and deciding where to attack as the Allies and planning it out on paper (or spreadsheet). Then and only then are you an official member of our little group.

Oh and it has to be a GC too. Not of these piddly scenarios for you


So far
1. Bought game 16 months ago after second child born.
2. Read manual at work in lunchtimes, opened game, freaked, turned off
3. suffered sleep deprivation from baby rearing for 14 months (and played a handful of games)
4. In a random moment of insanity 1 month ago started rereading manual
5. Started coral sea scenario...lost, started again...won and started to itch
6. Started 1000 mile war....now reading forums on bloody everything and the itch is getting worse
7. Am excited and scared but cant wait to launch into a GC...and I really really should get some treatment for that itch!

(in reply to Numdydar)
Post #: 22
RE: full campaign time - 4/27/2015 10:50:47 PM   
Numdydar

 

Posts: 2998
Joined: 2/13/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: fulcrum28

hello,

After playing some small scenarios against PC, I'm considering to play a full campaign against PC controlling the Japanese side.

I have a concern about the time necessary for that huge campaign.

1)Do you recommend me to set up the turn length to 1 day or 2 or 3 days to reduce the playing time?
Since you are playing against the AI (and since the Allied AI is dumber than a brick) you need to play on Hard at a minimum. You also
Use 1 day turns for Japan until the end March '42 as that is when your invade bonus runs out. Then switch to 2 or 3 day turns as you see fit

2)has someone of you finished such a full campaign and if so how long did it take?
Say about a year with regular play to get into '44/'45

3)finally, China front should be omitted (controlled by Pc or playing the full campaign with quiet china option?
China is too important to Japan to be played as Quiet. At a minimum you want a land connection between Indochina and Shanghai. A quiet China will prevent that.
Also there is no AI just for China that will play both sides while the player controls the rest of the map. Either you do nothing, i.e. Quiet or you have to actively take part.


Thank you in advance, and look forward to reading the opinion of expert players on the full campaign.

Kind regards


I put my replies in line above as it did not seem like anyone (including me ) directly answered any of your questions.

< Message edited by Numdydar -- 4/27/2015 11:55:22 PM >

(in reply to fulcrum28)
Post #: 23
RE: full campaign time - 4/28/2015 2:04:31 PM   
wneumann


Posts: 3768
Joined: 11/1/2005
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quote:

Typically, how long does it take the average player to complete their input for a turn? I am new to the game but it seems to be over an hour for me playing the allies in 1942 (Grand Campaign)

That sounds about right, maybe 2 hours of so (in 1942) for orders in a game turn where you're involved in extra activity(ies) involving significant levels of detail - such as pilot training, logistics (transport convoy system), tracking location & movement of opposing LCU and other forces from AAR's and other reports, etc. Much of this extra activity quite tedious and most (if not all of it) manual labor.

In late 1943 and after... Allied game turns get much longer simply due to scale. You have more stuff to keep track of and keep moving to where you want it going - more things and more you have to do with it. All on top of preparing and conducting offensive operations in the front lines. Logistics, intelligence and pilot training doesn't go away either.

(in reply to Numdydar)
Post #: 24
RE: full campaign time - 4/29/2015 3:34:11 PM   
crsutton


Posts: 9586
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
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quote:

ORIGINAL: wneumann

quote:

Typically, how long does it take the average player to complete their input for a turn? I am new to the game but it seems to be over an hour for me playing the allies in 1942 (Grand Campaign)

That sounds about right, maybe 2 hours of so (in 1942) for orders in a game turn where you're involved in extra activity(ies) involving significant levels of detail - such as pilot training, logistics (transport convoy system), tracking location & movement of opposing LCU and other forces from AAR's and other reports, etc. Much of this extra activity quite tedious and most (if not all of it) manual labor.

In late 1943 and after... Allied game turns get much longer simply due to scale. You have more stuff to keep track of and keep moving to where you want it going - more things and more you have to do with it. All on top of preparing and conducting offensive operations in the front lines. Logistics, intelligence and pilot training doesn't go away either.


If you are doing a turn a day then it takes about a hour or so. Even in 1945 the time spent as the Allies was not much longer. You just get into a routine and after four years of play know what to do. I found the late war Allies just as easy to manage. However, take a week vacation and you will need some time to remember where you were....


_____________________________

I am the Holy Roman Emperor and am above grammar.

Sigismund of Luxemburg

(in reply to wneumann)
Post #: 25
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