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Attacking across river into Singapore - 4/3/2015 11:17:08 PM   
linrom

 

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I am getting ready(finally) to move on Singapore. I was wondering if I should move ALL my units at the same time or move my 3 large complete divisions first?
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RE: Attacking across river into Singapore - 4/3/2015 11:48:12 PM   
Sauvequipeut

 

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Given that you'll automatically shock attack on arrival, I'd say the more the merrier. Just make sure that smaller units are set to follow large ones so your tank units don't heroically race ahead and try to storm the place single-handed.

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RE: Attacking across river into Singapore - 4/4/2015 4:50:09 AM   
tigercub


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on a move like that I hope you have been bombing the men as much as you can....I don't send the arty in the first wave.

Tigercub

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RE: Attacking across river into Singapore - 4/4/2015 4:59:19 AM   
Jim D Burns


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tigercub
I don't send the arty in the first wave.


This is probably a mistake, artillery causes a lot of the disruption and fatigue in combat resolutions, thus reducing your enemies adjusted AV in the final assault. So by not having it included your guys are getting hammered harder than they would otherwise I'd think.

Jim

< Message edited by Jim D Burns -- 4/4/2015 6:00:19 AM >


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RE: Attacking across river into Singapore - 4/4/2015 5:10:38 AM   
tigercub


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interesting Jim but in a crossing something I never do so they can move and fire!(in combat mode)

Tiger

< Message edited by tigercub -- 4/4/2015 10:55:02 AM >


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RE: Attacking across river into Singapore - 4/4/2015 10:21:20 AM   
Itdepends

 

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Make all your units follow only one infantry division so they arrive together and use combat mode for the final crossing of course.

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RE: Attacking across river into Singapore - 4/4/2015 12:52:51 PM   
Jim D Burns


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tigercub

interesting Jim but in a crossing something I never do so they can move and fire!(in combat mode)

Tiger


The game doesn’t look at whether you moved and fired in a single turn, there is no set up/break down mechanic for artillery in game. All the game does is force the units that cross the river to switch their combat settings line to the shock attack line, so leaving your artillery behind hurts you I’d say. Artillery is the big hammer in game, it used to do massive damage when bombarding, but it was changed so all their damage is now done in the assault combats now, so get them included in the battle if you can.

If your artillery manages to disrupt just a single enemy division to the 30-40 disruption range during the initial bombardment phases of the combat, that can translate to hundreds of your squads being saved from destruction or disablement during the adjusted assault phase of the combat. Disruption is a huge lifesaver and artillery causes most of it.

Jim


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RE: Attacking across river into Singapore - 4/4/2015 2:57:44 PM   
Chickenboy


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OP: You're going to take a disruption hit to your units on the initial crossing. Really no way around it. There are ways to reduce this (identified above).

Once the initial crossing has been made, then you can bring in other support units with AV values less than 1/3 of the size of the force already in the Singapore hex without having them attack. This would be a good opportunity for follow-on forces like engineers, HQ units, base forces, additional artillery, etc.

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RE: Attacking across river into Singapore - 4/6/2015 1:48:50 AM   
rustysi


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Hi linrom, I know from your past posts that you like to play an historic game (or at least that's the impression I got), but you must keep in mind that this is a game. Also keep in mind that all of the following is based on my somewhat limited (3rd game) experience and is of course JMHO.

Three divisions are inadequate to take Singers in a timely fashion. They will take hugh losses and have a long recovery time, and that is precisely what happened to me. From what I've read you need five maybe six to do the job. In my current game I used seven full divisions (probably overkill) and it went rather quickly. I had three armor rgmts invloved and quite a few engr (3 or 4 above the divisional complement) units as well. I held my arty back because in my previous games it just got beat up and I wanted to have it arrive the day after to bombard while my divisions recuperated. I also had my HQ's (25th and Southern) set to arrive the day after. I did this knowing they would help draw supply and replacements and provide support in order for my units to recover more quickly. Also remember to prep all units. They must be at or near 100% to have a chance to get the combat bonuses.

Well as it turned out my assult was very successful as I attained 2:1 odds, which I had read was helpful in a shock attack. The initial attack also brought his forts down two levels. My losses were relatively light. As a result Singers fell in less than a week. Still in my game about a month late, but that was more because I got everything late to the party.

Now will something like this work every time. Based on what I've seen of this game I doubt it, but at least I came loaded for bear. You know with all the die rolls here nothing seems written in stone. BTW since I'm playing the AI I looked at Singers form time to time. The base had enough supply (although I'm sure it dropped quickly) and a fort level of four. At least that is what I recall as both had me concerned. I imagine someone will chime in if I just got lucky.

Anyway that has been my experience FWIW.

< Message edited by rustysi -- 4/6/2015 2:50:34 AM >


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RE: Attacking across river into Singapore - 4/7/2015 1:19:12 AM   
linrom

 

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Rustysi. It is what it is. I am going to use historical forces to invade Singapore, but I am also including 56DIV which did not participate in the Malay campaign. So I'll have 4 plus the assortment of 25th and some Southern Army troops.

I could use 38th and 2nd DIV also but they're prepping for Palembang and Merak in Cam Ranh Bay. I just can't play some fantasy game. Units need to prep for theater of operations. I am also going to pull 48DIV out of Philippines and send it over to Balikpapan to prep for Soerabaja.

I only buy out small support units out of Korea and Manchuko such as some armor that saw action in China and air units and some regiments to go to New Guinea(a bit early)but that's what I am building up.

In China I maintain tight chain of command(except 13th and 11th Army units sometimes operate together. And yes AIR UNITS operate within chain of command of their parent and Army and Navy air support don't mix and of course the NAVY AND ARMY operate independent of each other.

< Message edited by linrom -- 4/7/2015 2:26:34 AM >

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RE: Attacking across river into Singapore - 4/7/2015 1:30:09 AM   
rustysi


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Hi linrom,

I understand your point of view and support it. It'll work fine if you're playing the AI, but I think in a PBEM even with enough house rules to get the desired effect I'm not sure. Anyway, I say play as you like and enjoy. I prefer to play somewhat ahistorically.

< Message edited by rustysi -- 4/7/2015 2:30:54 AM >


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It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once. Hume

In every party there is one member who by his all-too-devout pronouncement of the party principles provokes the others to apostasy. Nietzsche

Cave ab homine unius libri. Ltn Prvb

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RE: Attacking across river into Singapore - 4/7/2015 5:12:03 AM   
Anthropoid


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Related questions:

1. When defending against bombardments, I get the impression that having as much as possible in "reserve" is preferable to defray bombardment costs?

2. When defending, in general, 1/3 of total AV power in combat, 1/3 (along with all support units) in Reserve, 1/3 in Combat and 1/3 in 'elective' (rest if they are badly disrupted or fatigued or reserve if they are not)?

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RE: Attacking across river into Singapore - 4/7/2015 11:43:54 AM   
HansBolter


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You can't go into rest mode when an enemy unit is present in the hex, only reserve.

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RE: Attacking across river into Singapore - 4/7/2015 5:08:00 PM   
Anthropoid


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So 1/3 of AV in combat, 2/3 of AV and support in reserve is a good rule of thumb?

_____________________________

The x-ray is her siren song. My ship cannot resist her long. Nearer to my deadly goal. Until the black hole. Gains control...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkIIlkyZ328&feature=autoplay&list=AL94UKMTqg-9CocLGbd6tpbuQRxyF4FGNr&playnext=3

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RE: Attacking across river into Singapore - 4/7/2015 5:29:39 PM   
Jim D Burns


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Anthropoid
So 1/3 of AV in combat, 2/3 of AV and support in reserve is a good rule of thumb?


No, you want as much stuff in combat mode as possible, it should be disruption and fatigue that decides what you put into reserve mode. Reserve mode is a special mode designed to allow you to help your units recover disruption/disablements/fatigue when there are enemy units in the hex. The down side of reserve mode is they will not be included in combats unless they pass special die rolls during combat execution.

So by putting 2/3rds of your stuff into reserve, there is a chance you will lose the hex and be forced to retreat if a combat occurs. So make sure as much stuff as possible is in combat mode if you want to guarantee your guys fight to full effect. Rear area units don’t generally have to be in combat mode, but they do have a lot of AAA usually, so putting them into reserve mode reduces your available flak.

The only exception I might make would be armor units sitting in combat mode in the face of enemy bombardments. It’s generally a good idea to keep your armor units in reserve and only bring them out for assaults as they suffer horrible casualties to bombardments and will wither away and die eventually. It is also possible this has been addressed and is no longer the case. I’ve gotten into the habit of hiding my armor since release and haven’t tested it to see if its been fixed so this might be old advice.

Edit: Bombardments generally pick one or two units to focus most of the fire upon (usually one of the highest AV units is chosen). If you reduce the number of available targets for the bombarding units to choose from, you will guarantee they focus their fire on one unit turn after turn and it will soon lose its ability to resist due to massive fatigue and disruption piling up. By having multiple high AV units to choose from bombardments will tend to move on to units that were not hit in previous turns since the recent disruption drops the AV of the units hit in past turns. So it helps give those units a chance to recover if there are many targets to help spread out the punishment.

Jim


< Message edited by Jim D Burns -- 4/7/2015 6:39:51 PM >


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RE: Attacking across river into Singapore - 4/7/2015 6:10:49 PM   
HansBolter


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You also can't put more than 25% of your raw Assault Value in reserve in a hex where combat is taking place or the tactical AI will revert some of your LCUs back to combat mode so no more than 25% of your total is in reserve.

< Message edited by HansBolter -- 4/7/2015 7:20:23 PM >


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RE: Attacking across river into Singapore - 4/7/2015 6:50:25 PM   
Malagant

 

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quote:

2. When defending, in general, 1/3 of total AV power in combat, 1/3 (along with all support units) in Reserve, 1/3 in Combat and 1/3 in 'elective' (rest if they are badly disrupted or fatigued or reserve if they are not)?



Wait...isn't that 4/3?

You trying to sneak in some extra combat power somewhere?! No wonder my Midway assault went so poorly!

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RE: Attacking across river into Singapore - 4/7/2015 7:01:13 PM   
jwolf

 

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Heh, I didn't notice that! Some nice creative accounting!

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RE: Attacking across river into Singapore - 4/8/2015 2:42:45 AM   
Anthropoid


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Malagant

quote:

2. When defending, in general, 1/3 of total AV power in combat, 1/3 (along with all support units) in Reserve, 1/3 in Combat and 1/3 in 'elective' (rest if they are badly disrupted or fatigued or reserve if they are not)?



Wait...isn't that 4/3?

You trying to sneak in some extra combat power somewhere?! No wonder my Midway assault went so poorly!


No, no. That was a result of the satellite deployed mines and B-52's that I was able to time-travel in from 1975

Another somewhat related question, well a couple:

Seems reasonable units that have no enemies in the hex into Rest / Train. However:

1. Do Support units in rest mode function normally? Meaning to HQs provide support, Engs provide enginneer action, detection, etc.?

2. If you leave them in Rest mode on the turn right before an approaching enemy enters the hex, is that a very bad thing? Will they get massacred or will they all rever to Combat right before it takes place?

Getting back to Reserve issue: I thought I read in the manual how units in reserve mode have enhanced resistance to bombardment? So if your base is in no danger of being ground assaulted, but IS undergoing air or naval bombardment, I would think that having more stuff in Reserve would give it more resistance to those kinds of stand off bombardment, no?

_____________________________

The x-ray is her siren song. My ship cannot resist her long. Nearer to my deadly goal. Until the black hole. Gains control...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkIIlkyZ328&feature=autoplay&list=AL94UKMTqg-9CocLGbd6tpbuQRxyF4FGNr&playnext=3

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RE: Attacking across river into Singapore - 4/8/2015 4:11:34 AM   
Jim D Burns


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Anthropoid
1. Do Support units in rest mode function normally? Meaning to HQs provide support, Engs provide enginneer action, detection, etc.?


Support does appear to work in rest mode as all it needs to do is be present to have an effect, so it doesn’t appear the stance of the unit matters, though I could be wrong.

Engineers only work if in combat mode, so placing them in rest is a way to turn them off so you don’t have to pay for them to build each turn (very important in China).

quote:

ORIGINAL: Anthropoid
2. If you leave them in Rest mode on the turn right before an approaching enemy enters the hex, is that a very bad thing? Will they get massacred or will they all rever to Combat right before it takes place?


Units in rest mode are automatically placed in combat mode if an enemy unit enters the hex since you aren’t allowed to be in rest if the enemy is in the hex. Whether or not it has any affect on combats for the turn they auto switch out of rest such as amphib assaults or para drops I don’t know.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Anthropoid
Getting back to Reserve issue: I thought I read in the manual how units in reserve mode have enhanced resistance to bombardment? So if your base is in no danger of being ground assaulted, but IS undergoing air or naval bombardment, I would think that having more stuff in Reserve would give it more resistance to those kinds of stand off bombardment, no?


Units in reserve will not auto switch out of that mode if the enemy enters/attacks the hex, so there is a risk that you will automatically lose the hex if no one is available for defense. Other than that hiding in reserve can protect units but then they can’t repair base damage. Generally speaking bases suffer far more from bombardments like that and will need every possible engineer present, so I’d think you’d only do this if you had a tiny battalion or something (very vulnerable to concentrated air attacks due to small size) as the sole target you’d want to hide. Large formations can usually stand up to the damage quite well and their engineers are needed so I doubt you’d want to use this much.

Jim


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RE: Attacking across river into Singapore - 4/8/2015 12:02:17 PM   
Anthropoid


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Thanks Jim!

_____________________________

The x-ray is her siren song. My ship cannot resist her long. Nearer to my deadly goal. Until the black hole. Gains control...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkIIlkyZ328&feature=autoplay&list=AL94UKMTqg-9CocLGbd6tpbuQRxyF4FGNr&playnext=3

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RE: Attacking across river into Singapore - 4/8/2015 1:07:10 PM   
ny59giants


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In places like Singapore or other easily defensible terrain, when you cross over that river and shock attack, many of the LCUs that are still in their at game start components will likely suffer heavily. A general rule of thumb is to attack with full divisions and/or brigades. If not, expect many of your infantry regiments to be almost totally disabled and combat ineffective.

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