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Brawl : The First Team, 1991

 
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Brawl : The First Team, 1991 - 4/3/2015 9:01:26 PM   
jun5896

 

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U.S. Seventh Fleet vs. Soviet Red Banner Pacific Fleet


Date/Time: 14th June, 1991 / 23:00:00 Zulu

Location: North Pacific

Playable Sides: US



Background



This scenario depicts USS Midway's air group attacking a powerful Soviet Carrier Battle Group (CVBG) in the Pacific. If the Soviet ships can get into launch position, they will conduct a coordinated strike with two regiments of Backfires flying from the Kamchatka Peninsula. The US commander must cripple the CVBG (Almost SAG) before it gets within launch rage, And prepare for Soviet submarines attack.



This scenario demonstrates both how the US Navy planned to deal with a Soviet CVBG and how the Soviets planned to use layered defenses on their warships to defend against air attack.





This is ASW / ASuW / AAW scenario with a duration of two days.

I got inspiration from one of WW3 part scenario in harpoon 3, Player DB.
Have a good time and feedback, results, bug reports are welcome.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by jun5896 -- 4/6/2015 2:05:47 AM >
Post #: 1
RE: Brawl : The First Team, 1991 - 4/5/2015 4:45:36 AM   
Grackle

 

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Jun,

First off, thanks for creating a scenario that has the Forward Deployed Naval Forces (FDNF) included, and the Mighty MIDWAY. I served on MIDWAY from 1988-1991 as a part of VA-115 Attack Squadron and also stood watch in the CTF=70 Task Force Command Center. As far as the scenario goes, The air wing and Soviet forces look spot on, but I wanted to let you know that the surface forces for Battle Group Alpha are not as realistic as they could be. MIDWAY had independent CGs and DESRON 15 as part of her escort forces. In June 1991, these ships were:
Cruisers:

USS Mobile Bay Ticonderoga class (CG-53)
USS Bunker Hill Ticonderoga Class(CG-52)

DESRON 15

USS Fife Spruance Class w/ VLS upgrade (DD-991)
USS Oldendorf Spruance Class (no VLS) (DD-972)
USS Cochrane Adams Class (DDG-21)
USS Towers Adams class(DDG-9)
USS Curts O.H. Perry Class (FFG-38)
USS Rodney M. Davis O.H. Perry class (FFG-60)

Battle Group Alpha would always deploy with some subset of the above ships. It would be far more likely that we would work with these ships rather than 3rd Fleet assets at the outset of a war - since it takes a while for ships to deploy from CONUS. Again, thanks for making this scenario. Off to play it now.

Thanks,

Mark



_____________________________

System Specs: Intel(R) Core (TM) i7 CPU 960@3.20 GHZ; 12 GB RAM, AMD RADEON 6800 Series video card, Primary resolution 1920 X 1080, Direct X10

(in reply to jun5896)
Post #: 2
RE: Brawl : The First Team, 1991 - 4/5/2015 5:57:21 AM   
jun5896

 

Posts: 173
Joined: 1/17/2015
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: markadmiral

Jun,

First off, thanks for creating a scenario that has the Forward Deployed Naval Forces (FDNF) included, and the Mighty MIDWAY. I served on MIDWAY from 1988-1991 as a part of VA-115 Attack Squadron and also stood watch in the CTF=70 Task Force Command Center. As far as the scenario goes, The air wing and Soviet forces look spot on, but I wanted to let you know that the surface forces for Battle Group Alpha are not as realistic as they could be. MIDWAY had independent CGs and DESRON 15 as part of her escort forces. In June 1991, these ships were:
Cruisers:

USS Mobile Bay Ticonderoga class (CG-53)
USS Bunker Hill Ticonderoga Class(CG-52)

DESRON 15

USS Fife Spruance Class w/ VLS upgrade (DD-991)
USS Oldendorf Spruance Class (no VLS) (DD-972)
USS Cochrane Adams Class (DDG-21)
USS Towers Adams class(DDG-9)
USS Curts O.H. Perry Class (FFG-38)
USS Rodney M. Davis O.H. Perry class (FFG-60)

Battle Group Alpha would always deploy with some subset of the above ships. It would be far more likely that we would work with these ships rather than 3rd Fleet assets at the outset of a war - since it takes a while for ships to deploy from CONUS. Again, thanks for making this scenario. Off to play it now.

Thanks,

Mark






Thank you for Good information, I update to restructure Carrier Battle Group. And give Soviet one SSGN (Echo II) for balance.

(in reply to Grackle)
Post #: 3
RE: Brawl : The First Team, 1991 - 4/5/2015 6:08:08 AM   
magi

 

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Thank you guys... I will try this tomorrow....

(in reply to jun5896)
Post #: 4
RE: Brawl : The First Team, 1991 - 4/5/2015 8:04:58 AM   
Grackle

 

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Jun,

I was researching on the internet and was surprised by how many of the SS-N-12/P-500-equipped ECHO II SSGN's were in the PAC: K-23, K-56, K-57, K-94, K-175, K-184, K-189 (according to various websites). A big improvement over the SS-N-3. Depending on how many and how capable escorts you add (some ships are usually in maintenance and upkeep),you might need more than one SSGN for balance if you use one or more of the Aegis CG's. Looks like they had a bunch in the SOVPACFLT--so no worries...

For us, our biggest concern was TU-22M/Backfires, as we did not have the F-14. However, our optempo and training was high and we were good at launching interceptors quickly. We were able to easily and repeatedly beat more modern carriers such as the USS NIMITZ during War at Sea drills. Our ships were underway almost 2/3 of the time and always ready, unlike stateside ships or Soviet ships. Nevertheless, because we were so outnumbered, we did not not expect to last long in a war with the Soviets. Our hollow joke was that "Remember the MIDWAY" would be the rallying cry of WWIII. Battlegroup Alpha had just returned from DESERT STORM and was at a peak of proficiency at this time, especially the Air Wing. We expected that if war began, we would punch above our weight and give the Soviets a real bloody nose - but were less optimistic on our long term survival. Who knows what would have really happened - your scenario might give us some good clues. Good thing for all that it never came to open warfare.

Mark



_____________________________

System Specs: Intel(R) Core (TM) i7 CPU 960@3.20 GHZ; 12 GB RAM, AMD RADEON 6800 Series video card, Primary resolution 1920 X 1080, Direct X10

(in reply to magi)
Post #: 5
RE: Brawl : The First Team, 1991 - 4/5/2015 8:24:25 AM   
jun5896

 

Posts: 173
Joined: 1/17/2015
Status: online
http://russianships.info/eng/submarines/project_675.htm

Here is my source. K-10 submarine was attached to Pacific Fleet. And Why I choose it, because it was upgraded 675MKV(It equipped new Sandbox missile P-1000) , but not completed. However it is fiction and hypothetical situation.

haha.. I see thanks feedback and your experience. Yeah this scenario takes the focus 'ambush' when soviet know US carrier group, USS Midway deal them a blow.

< Message edited by jun5896 -- 4/5/2015 9:31:11 AM >

(in reply to Grackle)
Post #: 6
RE: Brawl : The First Team, 1991 - 4/5/2015 3:29:54 PM   
tk208

 

Posts: 137
Joined: 11/6/2006
From: Australia
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: markadmiral

Jun,

I was researching on the internet and was surprised by how many of the SS-N-12/P-500-equipped ECHO II SSGN's were in the PAC: K-23, K-56, K-57, K-94, K-175, K-184, K-189 (according to various websites). A big improvement over the SS-N-3. Depending on how many and how capable escorts you add (some ships are usually in maintenance and upkeep),you might need more than one SSGN for balance if you use one or more of the Aegis CG's. Looks like they had a bunch in the SOVPACFLT--so no worries...

For us, our biggest concern was TU-22M/Backfires, as we did not have the F-14. However, our optempo and training was high and we were good at launching interceptors quickly. We were able to easily and repeatedly beat more modern carriers such as the USS NIMITZ during War at Sea drills. Our ships were underway almost 2/3 of the time and always ready, unlike stateside ships or Soviet ships. Nevertheless, because we were so outnumbered, we did not not expect to last long in a war with the Soviets. Our hollow joke was that "Remember the MIDWAY" would be the rallying cry of WWIII. Battlegroup Alpha had just returned from DESERT STORM and was at a peak of proficiency at this time, especially the Air Wing. We expected that if war began, we would punch above our weight and give the Soviets a real bloody nose - but were less optimistic on our long term survival. Who knows what would have really happened - your scenario might give us some good clues. Good thing for all that it never came to open warfare.

Mark




Thanks for the comment Mark, interesting to hear about these kinds of things from the pro's perspective.

Cheers,

Tim

< Message edited by tk208 -- 4/5/2015 4:54:47 PM >

(in reply to Grackle)
Post #: 7
RE: Brawl : The First Team, 1991 - 4/5/2015 3:31:00 PM   
magi

 

Posts: 1414
Joined: 2/1/2014
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: markadmiral

Jun,

I was researching on the internet and was surprised by how many of the SS-N-12/P-500-equipped ECHO II SSGN's were in the PAC: K-23, K-56, K-57, K-94, K-175, K-184, K-189 (according to various websites). A big improvement over the SS-N-3. Depending on how many and how capable escorts you add (some ships are usually in maintenance and upkeep),you might need more than one SSGN for balance if you use one or more of the Aegis CG's. Looks like they had a bunch in the SOVPACFLT--so no worries...

For us, our biggest concern was TU-22M/Backfires, as we did not have the F-14. However, our optempo and training was high and we were good at launching interceptors quickly. We were able to easily and repeatedly beat more modern carriers such as the USS NIMITZ during War at Sea drills. Our ships were underway almost 2/3 of the time and always ready, unlike stateside ships or Soviet ships. Nevertheless, because we were so outnumbered, we did not not expect to last long in a war with the Soviets. Our hollow joke was that "Remember the MIDWAY" would be the rallying cry of WWIII. Battlegroup Alpha had just returned from DESERT STORM and was at a peak of proficiency at this time, especially the Air Wing. We expected that if war began, we would punch above our weight and give the Soviets a real bloody nose - but were less optimistic on our long term survival. Who knows what would have really happened - your scenario might give us some good clues. Good thing for all that it never came to open warfare.

Mark



very interesting and very insightful.... thank you mark...

(in reply to Grackle)
Post #: 8
RE: Brawl : The First Team, 1991 - 4/5/2015 3:49:29 PM   
magi

 

Posts: 1414
Joined: 2/1/2014
Status: online
what is the locked box about....?? how silly is this... you take away the ability to use space and maneuver as a tactical and operational asset... why dont you just park everybody next to each other and let them shoot it out and see whos left.....

(in reply to magi)
Post #: 9
RE: Brawl : The First Team, 1991 - 4/5/2015 3:54:31 PM   
magi

 

Posts: 1414
Joined: 2/1/2014
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i fixed it.... much better now....

(in reply to magi)
Post #: 10
RE: Brawl : The First Team, 1991 - 4/5/2015 4:45:30 PM   
Grackle

 

Posts: 144
Joined: 9/2/2007
Status: offline
"Here is my source. K-10 submarine was attached to Pacific Fleet. And Why I choose it, because it was upgraded 675MKV(It equipped new Sandbox missile P-1000) , but not completed. However it is fiction and hypothetical situation"

Great idea. What you suggest is not at all implausible and a good reason to incorporate a unique and powerful platform. Looking forward to the update.

Best,

Mark

_____________________________

System Specs: Intel(R) Core (TM) i7 CPU 960@3.20 GHZ; 12 GB RAM, AMD RADEON 6800 Series video card, Primary resolution 1920 X 1080, Direct X10

(in reply to magi)
Post #: 11
RE: Brawl : The First Team, 1991 - 4/5/2015 5:57:46 PM   
jun5896

 

Posts: 173
Joined: 1/17/2015
Status: online
quote:

ORIGINAL: magi

what is the locked box about....?? how silly is this... you take away the ability to use space and maneuver as a tactical and operational asset... why dont you just park everybody next to each other and let them shoot it out and see whos left.....



I attempt to imitate on Harpoon 3 warfare, It's like map size. In a word, handle the crisis in the restricted space on 2 days. This scenario motive is rapid maneuver when encounter the enemy on the sea.

< Message edited by jun5896 -- 4/5/2015 7:03:03 PM >

(in reply to magi)
Post #: 12
RE: Brawl : The First Team, 1991 - 4/5/2015 6:00:26 PM   
jun5896

 

Posts: 173
Joined: 1/17/2015
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: markadmiral

"Here is my source. K-10 submarine was attached to Pacific Fleet. And Why I choose it, because it was upgraded 675MKV(It equipped new Sandbox missile P-1000) , but not completed. However it is fiction and hypothetical situation"

Great idea. What you suggest is not at all implausible and a good reason to incorporate a unique and powerful platform. Looking forward to the update.

Best,

Mark


Sorry, I have mistake. your opinion is right. K-10 was decommissioned on 1989, Thanks I try fix next update

(in reply to Grackle)
Post #: 13
RE: Brawl : The First Team, 1991 - 4/5/2015 8:32:13 PM   
Dimitris


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quote:

ORIGINAL: jun5896
I got inspiration from one of WW3 part scenario in harpoon 3, Player DB.


....which itself is a copy of the existing "The First Team" scenario in High Tide.

_____________________________


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RE: Brawl : The First Team, 1991 - 4/6/2015 1:04:41 AM   
jun5896

 

Posts: 173
Joined: 1/17/2015
Status: online

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sunburn

quote:

ORIGINAL: jun5896
I got inspiration from one of WW3 part scenario in harpoon 3, Player DB.


....which itself is a copy of the existing "The First Team" scenario in High Tide.



Yes. But I add some of ships and submarines, that is not High Tide, Battle of the Third World War - Larry Bond, 1987 Battleset. It is a remake of a Player DB scenario.

(in reply to Dimitris)
Post #: 15
RE: Brawl : The First Team, 1991 - 4/6/2015 1:14:07 AM   
jun5896

 

Posts: 173
Joined: 1/17/2015
Status: online
I update new version. Thanks all feedbacks.

(in reply to jun5896)
Post #: 16
RE: Brawl : The First Team, 1991 - 4/6/2015 2:05:56 AM   
Gunner98

 

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From: The Great White North!
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I'll give this one a try.

B

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RE: Brawl : The First Team, 1991 - 4/6/2015 6:28:43 AM   
magi

 

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the KA-25T Hormones are operatting at 1500 ft and that is severely restricting effectiveness of their radar....

< Message edited by magi -- 4/6/2015 7:32:29 AM >

(in reply to Gunner98)
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RE: Brawl : The First Team, 1991 - 4/6/2015 1:59:17 PM   
Gunner98

 

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Very nice so far:

1st strike complete, Minsk, 1x Udaloy and 1x Sovremmeny sunk. SEAD/TLAD strike was disappointing, think it knocked out one radar and the TLADs proved very ineffective at attracting missiles. On the good side the two escorts feeding the fish has left a barn door open for my SSN, that and the loss of ASW Helos with the Minsk should allow me to slip in. Unfortunately the other SSN played tag with a Sov SSN ending in a tie - ouch.

Only comment so far is that the US formation starts very tight, think it would probably be a bit looser to take advantage of the sonars and SAMs etc.

Will go back in later in the day.

B

(in reply to magi)
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RE: Brawl : The First Team, 1991 - 4/7/2015 12:13:55 AM   
Gunner98

 

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Minor victory 510 pts

Cleaned up the SAG with a second strike at night, harpoons only, the last missile finally got through to the last Udaloy and took her down, about 16 hours into the game. Had a bunch of Intruders ready with Walleyes at dawn if needed. Was expecting the air attack with all 36 Hornets loaded and ready, but no go.

Lost both SSNs which killed my points. The 4 intruders were knocked down in the first strike, for some reason they followed their missiles in, I didn't notice until too late. The Prowlers and the Tanker ran out of fuel in the landing pattern, did not manage that well they could have been offset from the returning strike.

Good game. That Bear/Backfire strike would have been nice for dawn on day two. Also, a Tu-16 Jammer and another Recon bird would make it more of a challenge, especially if they are outside the players OP Box. Nice primer for CV ops, not too difficult but has all the bits.

B


SIDE: US
===========================================================

LOSSES:
-------------------------------
1x SSN 688 Los Angeles [Flight I]
4x A-6E Intruder
1x SSN 719 Providence [Los Angeles Class, Flight II, VLS]
2x EA-6B Prowler ICAP II Block 82
1x KA-6D Intruder


SIDE: USSR
===========================================================

LOSSES:
-------------------------------
12x Yak-38 Forger A
4x Ka-25Ts Hormone B
1x PLA-971 Akula I [Shchuka-B]
1x PLA-671RTM Victor III [Shchuka]
20x Ka-27PL Helix A
2x BPK Udaloy I [Pr.1155]
2x EM Sovremenny I [Pr.956]
1x TAKR Minsk [Pr.1143 Krechyet]
1x RKR Frunze [Pr.1144 Orlan]
1x RKR Slava [Pr.1164 Atlant]
1x VT Altay [Pr.160]



(in reply to Gunner98)
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RE: Brawl : The First Team, 1991 - 4/7/2015 8:23:58 PM   
AlexGGGG

 

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In the briefing, it says

The subsurface and aerial threat is believed to be minimal at this time. Expect threat of submarines.

Something is not quite right. Subsurface threat minimal and at the same time expect submarines?

(in reply to Gunner98)
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RE: Brawl : The First Team, 1991 - 4/7/2015 9:45:19 PM   
AlexGGGG

 

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830 Triumph. Sank everything on the surface plus two subs at a loss of one Hornet to SAMs.

Generally smooth and easy. Soviet should have some kind of air recon or other sensors for more challenge.

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RE: Brawl : The First Team, 1991 - 4/8/2015 4:28:51 AM   
jun5896

 

Posts: 173
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Status: online
sorry that's my fault. I will fix them. And I think this is tutorial of Strike SAG Group. I will make more difficult scenario. Thanks feedback.

(in reply to AlexGGGG)
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RE: Brawl : The First Team, 1991 - 8/13/2015 7:57:47 AM   
Dimitris


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Is there any block for releasing this?

_____________________________


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