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RE: Unleashed Extended I & II

 
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RE: Unleashed Extended I & II - 4/7/2016 10:29:56 PM   
mordachai


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Not at all! I always hoped that someone would enjoy this enough to make something more out of it. That's what got me into making it in the first place! Plus - that's what got those before me to make what I used :D

I do have an unfinished UEIII that I just resurrected from my old PC. Just went over the changes - fairly minor - but there are a few tech changes and component additions / changes. I suspect that it would break your AI changes (which is one of the primary reasons I stayed away from doing the whole scripted research thing for AIs - sooo fragile the way they built it).

so - I'll either have to dump my changes - or re-integrate them into what you've done - or create a different branch from what you're doing. Or not worry about it at all and just see what you create (I guess that's the dump option) :)

Changes I have:

1. All research stations have 1 slot of all three types of research (I think to help the AI).
2. I gave a tech focus 1 and 2 to Teekans and Zenox.
3. Similarly - updated the policy for Zenox, Teekan, and Hiigaran (mostly to fix the colonization priorities it appears)
4. Various minor fixes / adjustments to components - S2F7 repairbots, hyperdrive, shields, and 3 new final drives? Kaldos II, Phoenix II, and Calista-Dal II HyperDrives
5. Massively increase cost of most facilities (fits UEII's economy better).
6. Naming changes to hyperdrives, some fixes to research, and linking in those new end-game hyper-drive techs.

I guess I'd like to see a complete installable version of your work (when you get there) and I'll either integrate or not at that point.

(in reply to Retreat1970)
Post #: 91
RE: Unleashed Extended I & II - 4/8/2016 4:59:10 PM   
Retreat1970


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Well, maybe you should go ahead with your version 3, and drop what I've got as a 2.5 or something. My main focus was to make it as hard as I could. Not everyone will enjoy a difficult game. I'm just fixing research scripting. I have half to go then I'm done.

Side note: What do you think about gravity weapons? I say they're the weakest weapon by far. Moderate damage, short range, low refire rate, large size footprint. The ability to bypass armor and shields is fine if you can actually hit your target (which varies but it isn't good 50% or less). I'd like your thoughts if something should be done or not.

(in reply to mordachai)
Post #: 92
RE: Unleashed Extended I & II - 4/8/2016 6:31:21 PM   
mordachai


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TBH - because they seemed to be so weak - I've mostly avoided them. So I have very little experience with them. Perhaps there are others with an opinion?!

AFA naming goes - name yours as you wish! I'll do something afterwards - if at all. Just because I have some unfinished work hardly need to divert you. It's the problem with all software - you make something new - that's cool - new features - release it - folks (incl. you) use it - find a few bugs - you notice some short-comings - you fix the bugs & minor stuff - but then it's hard to release that. Feels unfinished and has nothing that's particularly cool to justify releasing it.

But then if you make something new and cool... well, we're back to the start of the cycle. :P

(in reply to Retreat1970)
Post #: 93
RE: Unleashed Extended I & II - 4/8/2016 7:35:21 PM   
Uncle Lumpy


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I had had no experience with gravity weapons until about six games ago. I was at the stage of three colonies and very tiny Destroyers. When suddenly I was swarmed by a pirate fraction with tons of tiny/weak ships. They were crippling my ships with ease. I couldn't figure out what they were using. Then I captured one and found out they had a mass of gravity weapons! Yep, they by-passed all of my shields and armor all right. They were disabling or taking out engines, weapons, command, life support, etc.. And leaving my ships dead in the water and vulnerable to boarding. I was pretty impressed. So I began to incorporate gravity weapons into my ships, too. I have yet to duplicate the success of the pirates!! I know they work, I simply can't get them to work correctly for me.

(in reply to mordachai)
Post #: 94
RE: Unleashed Extended I & II - 4/8/2016 9:07:30 PM   
Bingeling

 

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I seem to remember being rather surprises by what I believe was Haakonish large spaceport. If that is correct, it was probably this layout (without the super weapon, probably):

WeaponSuperBeam ;1
WeaponTorpedo ;20
WeaponTractorBeam ;4
WeaponGravitonBeam ;15
WeaponAreaGravity ;1

It hurt a lot :)

That being said, I typically have run with AI design, so no custom long range spaceport killer fleets, just powerful brute force ones. The 20 torpedo are not special, it must be the gravity stuff that hurt a lot, combined with good survivability. But disabling stuff all over (including reactors and weapons?) should help in that area too.

(in reply to Uncle Lumpy)
Post #: 95
RE: Unleashed Extended I & II - 4/9/2016 2:17:19 AM   
mordachai


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I tried to update the ship designs to be nastier for all AIs, and to be solid enough for my own use (I usually allow the autodesigner to do it's thing until mid-game when I step in for the capital ships). But bases generally are solid with the templates as I updated them, for my games, usually!

I threw in the super weapons and other goodies to make them pretty powerful if you happened to research those things. The tractor beams can be nice on a base - grab enemy ships and hold them for a pounding! :D

But as to gravity weapons - I can see why they have obvious draw-backs to try to balance out the bypass-defenses bit.

You can always design a stand-off fleet, but really, what's the fun in that?! :)

(in reply to Bingeling)
Post #: 96
RE: Unleashed Extended I & II - 4/9/2016 11:21:19 PM   
mordachai


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Just a quick update - I got bit by the modding bug today - always felt that the fighter based races were just better off than the others and frustrated with the lopsidedness of their existence in the game being partial - so I made all races in my current WIP use fighters (plus whatever else they normally do). So everyone should be nastier now :)

EDIT #1:

and !@#$!@#$!@$#

NullReferenceException - in GenertatePirateEmpire(....)

But !!@#$!@#$! no info on which race - nor on which variable is NULL - just a list of a dozen arguments and NO FEEDBACK. :(

Went through with fine-tooth comb and compared to previous version. I can't find a blasted difference of relevance. I deleted a bunch of race\pirate\ files - but then after this error restored them all. So, not that. And they shouldn't have mattered - since the ones deleted were all races that can't be pirates in the first place. :(

Bah humbug!

EDIT #2:

Fixed it... but it doesn't make sense. Had to delete the changes to the pirate design templates. Why? ??? ???? They're literally copies of the non-pirate templates. But that seems to crash the game for reasons I can only guess at.

Anyway - working - playing (erm, I mean testing) now :)

< Message edited by mordachai -- 4/10/2016 4:22:33 AM >

(in reply to mordachai)
Post #: 97
RE: Unleashed Extended I & II - 4/11/2016 12:46:53 PM   
Kimmy

 

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Yaaay it's being continued, eagerly waiting for version III

< Message edited by Kimmy -- 4/11/2016 12:48:07 PM >

(in reply to mordachai)
Post #: 98
RE: Unleashed Extended I & II - 4/15/2016 1:29:50 AM   
Retreat1970


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Mordachai

I have 2.5 finished. How do you want to proceed?

1. Link it here?
2. Link it on my first post here (#2)?
3. Email it to you so you can look at it first?
4. Forget it and just watch NHL playoffs (my favorite option)?

(in reply to Kimmy)
Post #: 99
RE: Unleashed Extended I & II - 4/15/2016 1:56:49 PM   
mordachai


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I would link it in a new thread - named similarly? - call it what you want - my suggestion might be "Unleashed Extended II Moar!" or whatever catches your fancy. Seriously - call it III if you want. (heh - "UE II Never Retreat!")

And definitely don't shirk on your duties to NHL!

If you'd prefer, PM me the link and I'll add it to the OP here with an explanation (preferably you should include whatever blurb you want in the PM).

I'll link your thread in the OP either way as a "Beyond EU II" or whatever you decide to call it. :D

Also - AWESOME!

Lastly - I have been modding and will release something. Whether either of us wants to integrate both efforts is ... well, I can only say I'm not at this exact moment jumping to do so. But... you never know when the modding bug will bite, and maybe I'll integrate them.

What I am most unlikely to do is to deal with the AI research order. I did change the research tree (slightly) so your orders would have to be re-coordinated with my changes - which sounds more tedious that I'm willing to do (again: the reason I avoided writing those lists in the first place). I think I only modified the energy tree - so far... ;)

< Message edited by mordachai -- 4/15/2016 1:58:37 PM >

(in reply to Retreat1970)
Post #: 100
RE: Unleashed Extended I & II - 4/15/2016 2:11:14 PM   
mordachai


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Name ideas (feel free to ignore them all!)

UE II Never Retreat (by Retreat1970)
UE II Moar!
Beyond UE II
UE II and Beyond!
Unleashed Hyper-Extended
Ultimate Unleashed Extended
...

< Message edited by mordachai -- 4/15/2016 2:12:39 PM >

(in reply to mordachai)
Post #: 101
RE: Unleashed Extended I & II - 4/16/2016 7:09:06 PM   
Retreat1970


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At the moment I think I will just post it here. I'm not the best writer or explainer of any idea.

Basically this mod is UE2 with a unique AI improvement mod. It is hard. There is a readme in the mod folder.

Mordachai, if you want to do anything with this, that's fine. I made this mod for me, so I'm not too worried if anyone else plays it.

http://www.mediafire.com/download/1byh8bj91wwciy8/RetreatUE.zip

(in reply to mordachai)
Post #: 102
Armor Research - 4/18/2016 12:41:46 AM   
Padraig Tseng

 

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EDIT Nevermind, found it...I was blind lol

< Message edited by Padraig Tseng -- 4/18/2016 12:44:34 AM >

(in reply to Retreat1970)
Post #: 103
RE: Armor Research - 4/18/2016 5:16:58 PM   
Hattori Hanzo


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From: Okinawa
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quote:

EDIT Nevermind, found it...I was blind lol

?????

< Message edited by Hattori Hanzo -- 4/18/2016 5:19:12 PM >

(in reply to Padraig Tseng)
Post #: 104
RE: Unleashed Extended I & II - 4/19/2016 12:00:21 AM   
Kimmy

 

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Hey Retreat1970

I'm considering starting a new DW game, and I was thinking of doing it with your mod. It's really cool that you gave the AI research orders and such, that must've been a lot of work, thank you! I do have a question: the UEII mod had the problem of the economy being boosted a bit much, making some of the races a bit over the top; have you changed this or left the economy as it was in UEII?

Thanks again for your efforts, both you and Mordachai :)

(in reply to Retreat1970)
Post #: 105
RE: Unleashed Extended I & II - 4/19/2016 1:29:11 AM   
Retreat1970


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I left the UE2 economy alone. This boosts the player way more than the AI. One of the issues with the economy AI is that it doesn't spend money wisely or sufficiently. The AI doesn't boost research, and it doesn't buy more ships. There seems to be a correlation between population amount and total firepower. Fleets seem to be capped somehow. I did however see the value of the AI with excess money just for the safety they have money for building and upgrades.

You can however edit the government txt file, and adjust to how you want to play.

(in reply to Kimmy)
Post #: 106
RE: Unleashed Extended I & II - 4/21/2016 3:51:14 AM   
mordachai


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Indeed! As Retreat indicates - just degrade the governments - that's how I boosted the economy (boosts apply to AI - just AI isn't the brightest). But if you reduce the planetary income values for each government type, then your economy will subside. You can compare the file with the one from vanilla or from UEI. don't use the vanilla or UEI file! UEII adds one or two more government types - so you need to edit that file (I suggest you look at BeyondCompare - it's free for non-commercial use or for a while anyway - and it makes editing & comparing such files a breeze!)

I'm of the "moar is better" camp - or maybe I'm not too bright with this game - whatever the case, I find the boosted economy to make my games go more smoothly - I don't often get runaway wins - usually I'm still struggling vs. the AIs, so it just depends on your play style.

You can always degrade your economy by choosing the least economically successful government type for your game. That will self-nerf you vs. the AIs. Or similarly, don't boost your research, etc. You have choices, is what I'm saying :)

EDIT: Retreat's version of UEII added to OP. Thanks Retreat1970!!!!! :D

< Message edited by mordachai -- 4/21/2016 4:03:33 AM >

(in reply to Retreat1970)
Post #: 107
RE: Unleashed Extended I & II - 4/21/2016 8:25:36 PM   
Kimmy

 

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Alrighty, I'll start tinkering with those government files a little if need be. Also really curious what you come up with for UEIII! Thank you kindly, both of you :)

(in reply to mordachai)
Post #: 108
RE: Unleashed Extended I & II - 4/22/2016 1:50:38 AM   
mordachai


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Here's my notes for III:

Hiigarans correctly have desert world priority / bonuses
Hyperdrives are in the correct order (quick/slow, medium/medium, laggy/fast)
Added Advanced versions of all hyperdrives
Fixed errors in napoar race file (duplicate entries)
There are now three distinct lines of reactors:
Fusion (good capacity, low output rate, good fuel efficiency)
Casalon (decent capacity, decent output rate, decent efficiency)
Helium (okay capacity, great output rate, worst efficiency)
Top-end reactor (quantum) is now hydrogen based, and fantastic efficiency & output & capcity (but an extra tier more expensive)
Many tweaks to balance of hyperdrives and reactors to give a better relationship amongst them
Revamped colonization research & bonuses:
Ocean, Desert, Continental, and Marsh/Jungle all have affinity, with Ice and Volcanic being more difficult to research and produce colonizers on
Ice has affinity with Ocean, Desert, and Continental, with Marsh and Volcanic being more difficult to research and produce colonizers on
Volcanic has affinity with Marsh, Desert, and Continental, with Ocean and Ice being more difficult to research and produce colonizers on
* Overall, colonization research is cheaper - you should be able to expand a bit easier

All races use fighters!
All race policies updated to prioritize the correct techs, below, in addition to fighters,
All race design templates updated to align with the following tech-design priorities:

ackdarian torpedo
atuuk rail gun
banoserit phaser
boskara torpedo (point blank + suicidal)
caleph torpedo (racial fighters)
dhayut rail gun
enton gravitic weapons
gizurean beam + bombard (point blank + suicidal)
haakonish gravitic weapons
hiigaran rail gun
human missile
ikkuro phaser
jintus rail gun
keskudon torpedo + bombard (point blank + suicidal)
ketarov gravitic weapons
kiadian torpedo
lemeresh phaser
lipid phaser + ion + boarding pods
mechanoid beam (point blank)
mortalen missile
napoar missile
naxxilian phaser
ortain rail gun
paratis missile
phaerax beam + bombard (point blank + suicidal)
quameno gravitic weapons
riktoh missile
securan torpedo
shakturi torpedo (racial) (point blank + suicidal) (implicit bombard)
shandar missile
sluken beam + bombard (point blank + suicidal)
tairoshan phaser
tarapin missile
teekan torpedo
ungari phaser
visareen missile
wekkarus beam (racial) (point blank)
xhuman gravitic weapons
yl'ta beam + bombard (point blank + suicidal)
yor phaser (racial)
zenox torpedo

(in reply to Kimmy)
Post #: 109
RE: Unleashed Extended I & II - 4/22/2016 4:50:41 AM   
Kimmy

 

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Loving these changes, tons of new toys to play with!

Especially loving the decision to make all races use fighters, it's fun having to incorporate sufficient flak in your designs :)

(in reply to mordachai)
Post #: 110
RE: Unleashed Extended I & II - 4/22/2016 5:25:36 AM   
mordachai


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I'm working on this mod and another one for Sword of the Stars. Hoping to get them both ready to publish for this weekend. If not, next week for sure.

(in reply to Kimmy)
Post #: 111
RE: Unleashed Extended I & II - 4/22/2016 1:58:22 PM   
Hattori Hanzo


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From: Okinawa
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quote:

...and another one for Sword of the Stars


this one seem very interesting to me

(in reply to mordachai)
Post #: 112
RE: Unleashed Extended I & II - 4/22/2016 2:26:17 PM   
Francoy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mordachai

I'm working on this mod and another one for Sword of the Stars. Hoping to get them both ready to publish for this weekend. If not, next week for sure.


Is this for SOTS 1 or 2 ?

Which one is the better with mods ?

(in reply to mordachai)
Post #: 113
Awesome Sauce! - 4/22/2016 2:35:43 PM   
Twigster

 

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Retreat1970:

I have downloaded RetreatUE and have to say that it is, simply put, top notch!

The scenario is Extreme/Chaos, pre-warp, 1000-star, 10x10, 16 AI, Expensive Research, playing as Hiigaran... I m loving everything about your Mod. Thanks a ton!

< Message edited by Twigster -- 4/22/2016 2:38:59 PM >

(in reply to Francoy)
Post #: 114
RE: Unleashed Extended I & II - 4/22/2016 3:55:28 PM   
mordachai


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The other mod I referred to is "Bastard Sword of the Stars 2.0" for Sots prime (Sots ][ is terrible).

If you're interested, go here.

< Message edited by mordachai -- 4/22/2016 3:57:18 PM >

(in reply to Francoy)
Post #: 115
RE: Awesome Sauce! - 4/22/2016 5:05:54 PM   
Retreat1970


Posts: 717
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From: Wisconsin
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Twigster

Retreat1970:

I have downloaded RetreatUE and have to say that it is, simply put, top notch!

The scenario is Extreme/Chaos, pre-warp, 1000-star, 10x10, 16 AI, Expensive Research, playing as Hiigaran... I m loving everything about your Mod. Thanks a ton!


Thank you.

(in reply to Twigster)
Post #: 116
RE: Unleashed Extended I & II - 4/22/2016 9:45:10 PM   
Radishgast


Posts: 24
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mordachai

I'm working on this mod and another one for Sword of the Stars. Hoping to get them both ready to publish for this weekend. If not, next week for sure.


Looking forward to your update! I adore your mod!

(in reply to mordachai)
Post #: 117
RE: Unleashed Extended I & II - 4/22/2016 10:22:00 PM   
Twigster

 

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And here I thought SotS Prime was long-dead... will give this a try as well, and thanks!

(in reply to mordachai)
Post #: 118
RE: Unleashed Extended I & II - 4/23/2016 10:02:22 PM   
jadelith

 

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are the government income bonuses the only ones the ai gets? I really hate micromanaging, and the game is already a micromanaging fest without giving the ai enough resources to flood the screen with ships. I also end up with bazillions in cash and can't get rid of it even though I crash research everything.

though it was interesting to see lipids attack my colonies with 120 ships each & troops worth ~300k strength.. even though they only had two planets :).

(in reply to Twigster)
Post #: 119
RE: Unleashed Extended I & II - 4/24/2016 1:50:40 AM   
mordachai


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The governments is what I altered, in terms of economy.

This mod massively alters the research costs - I included a couple different files with different cost-slopes in them - the default one is a climb of x3 / increment. However, there is another that is x^1.5, which is a much steeper cost-slope. Take a look in the root of my mod-folder and you'll see research (3x slope).txt and research (x^1.5 slope).txt.

If you prefer the more expensive slope - just backup research.txt, and copy research (x^1.5 slope).txt to research.txt and start a new game.

(in reply to jadelith)
Post #: 120
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