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Will anti-torpedo systems save carriers?

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Will anti-torpedo systems save carriers? - 3/7/2015 10:08:41 AM   

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it is painfully obvious how powerful the latest submarines have beome (and i am in part shocked too!):

they have AIP, better torpedos, sub drones, anti-aircraft-missiles, anti-ship-missiles and the best sonar equipment to hunt ships...

in exercise battles the sub almost every time whip the carriers, blow them and their escorts out of the water:


In the second phase of the exercise, the Saphir was integrated with the enemy forces and its mission was to locate the aircraft carrier Theodore Roosevelt and its accompanying warships and prepare to attack the strike group.

While the fictious political situation deteriorated, the Saphir (french nuclear sub) quietly slipped in the heart of the multi-billion-dollar aircraft carrier’s defensive screen, while avoiding detection by ASW assets.

On the morning of the last day, the order to attack was finally given, allowing the Saphir to pretend-sinking the USS Theodore Roosevelt and most of its escort.

there are more flat top kills at training ops:


the german subs scored - U-24 sunk uss enterprise and the newer AIP type 212(A) did well too


swedish gotland class was a killer too ("sunk" USS Reagan), the us navy leased one to try to counter them, but no joy > the little Swedish sub was "so silent it literally
did not exist to our sensors."


in 2007 HMCS Corner Brook, a canadian diesel-electric submarine “sunk” UK’s Illustrious during an exercise in the Atlantic


It happened in 1983, when a Daphne class sub of the Portuguese Navy sunk a carrier.


and in 1998 with another french sub, the casabianca…it managed not only to sink the carrier, but the main part of it's escort too.


American military chiefs have been left dumbstruck by an undetected Chinese Song class diesel-electric submarine popping up at the heart of a recent Pacific exercise and close to the vast U.S.S. Kitty Hawk (2007)


In 1989, naval analyst Norman Polmar wrote in Naval Forces that during NATO s exercise Northern Star, the Dutch submarine Zwaardvis was the only orange (enemy) submarine to successfully stalk and sink a blue (allied) aircraft carrier Ten years later there were reports that the Dutch submarine Walrus had been even more successful in the exercise JTFEX/TMDI99. During this exercise the Walrus penetrates the U.S. screen and sinks many ships, including the U.S. aircraft carrier Theodore Roosevelt CVN-71. The submarine launches two attacks and manages to sneak away. To celebrate the sinking the crew designed a special T- shirt. Fittingly, the T-shirt depicted the USS Theodore Roosevelt impaled on the tusks of a walrus. It was also reported that the Walrus also sank many of the Roosevelt's escorts, including the nuclear submarine USS Boise, a cruiser, several destroyers and frigates, plus the command ship USS Mount Whitney. The Walrus herself survived the exercise with no damage.


During the NATO exercise Ocean Venture 1981, a Canadian Oberon class submarine slipped quietly through a carrier's destroyer screen, and conducted a devastating simulated torpedo attack on the ship. The submarine was never detected, and when the exercise umpire, a U.S. Navy officer, pronounced the carrier dead, his official report was promptly stamped classified to minimize the potential fallout.


Not to be outdone by the Canadians and Dutch, the Australian submarine force has also scored many goals against U.S. Navy carriers and nuclear submarines. On September 24 2003, the Australian newspaper The Age disclosed that Australia's Collins class diesel submarines had taught the U.S. Navy a few lessons during multinational exercises. By the end of the exercises, Australian submarines had destroyed two U.S. Navy nuclear attack submarines and an aircraft carrier. According to the article: The Americans were wide-eyed, Commodore Deeks (Commander of the RAN Submarine Group) said. They realized that another navies knows how to operate submarines.
They were quite impressed.

Falklands War - argentinian sub almost sunk british ships

There are several points here:
1. denial/shock/arrogance: it cannot happen that other navies know how to use subs... we are invincible!
2. political asscovering: since cvbg's cost a lot, reports are classified or denied to get more funding
3. real danger: sink half a cvbg a lot of people die, so effective countermeasures are essential > "wake up call"

that brings us to

Anti-Torpedo Systems


The Surface Ship Torpedo Defense (SSTD) program under development to protect high dollar surface warships — like the Navy’s Nimitz-class (CVN-68) nuclear aircraft carriers — from Soviet developed torpedoes specifically designed to attack large ships like aircraft carriers and large civilian oil tankers.


WASS C303/S (for subs) and C310 (for ships)anti-torpedo countermeasure system

SEA SENTOR™ Surface Ship Torpedo Defense system has been in-service since October 2004

Paket-E/NK Small-Sized Anti-Submarine System with Anti-Torpedo
This system is installed on the Stergushchy class corvette

ATLAS SeaSpider Anti-Torpedo Torpedo (Germany, EU)

Mareecha Anti Torpedo Defence System (India)
rejected? stopped?

Rafael Anti-Submarine Defence System (Israel)

DCNS/Rheinmetall MASS Multi Ammunition Softkill System with ATDS capability (Germany, France)

< Message edited by DirtyFred -- 3/7/2015 11:21:51 AM >


One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.
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RE: Will anti-torpedo systems save carriers? - 3/7/2015 10:27:40 AM   

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Thanks! I was not aware that the Paket system was ATT-capable.


(in reply to DirtyFred)
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RE: Will anti-torpedo systems save carriers? - 3/17/2019 6:01:34 AM   


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The Navy just admitted it's a failure:

(in reply to Dimitris)
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RE: Will anti-torpedo systems save carriers? - 3/17/2019 8:26:45 AM   

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Joined: 6/25/2016
From: St. Petersburg, Russia
Status: offline


ORIGINAL: Dimitris

Thanks! I was not aware that the Paket system was ATT-capable.

Producer states that capability. Moreover, there is special ATT purpose torpedo.

Boikiy, Steregushchy-class corvette, used M-15 for AT defense during drills at September 2015.

(in reply to Dimitris)
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