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Dev Diary #8 - 3D Unit Bases

 
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Dev Diary #8 - 3D Unit Bases - 2/28/2015 4:22:41 PM   
Crossroads


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To do a quick follow up on 2D Counters in Middle East and beyond, here's how the new 3D Unit Bases will work out.

So using the same example:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Crossroads

So Syrians vs Israelis it is, in Carentan'54. What's that 1970's WW II movie, filmed in the mountains of Spain. A Bulge movie, or Patton movie? Patton in Bulge? All I remember was the hot and dry mountains of Ardennes together with M-48s for both sides

So this is what I did. Here's a snippet of the Syrian Platoon data:

quote:

Platoon26.oob

P263001 6 0 6 35 0 0 45 9 0 2 6 3 0 0 0 0 33 67 P263001 3 48 0 0 0 0 48 1 85 12 0 0 0 Army HQ , Army HQ ,
P263002 5 0 5 35 0 0 45 9 0 2 5 3 0 0 0 0 34 68 P263001 2 48 0 0 0 0 48 1 85 12 0 0 0 Corps HQ , Corps HQ ,
P263003 4 0 4 35 0 0 45 9 0 2 4 3 0 0 0 0 35 69 P263001 2 48 0 0 0 0 48 1 85 12 0 0 0 Divisional HQ , Division HQ ,
P263004 3 0 3 35 0 0 45 9 0 2 3 3 0 0 0 0 36 70 P263001 2 48 0 0 0 0 48 1 85 12 0 0 0 Brigade HQ , Brigade HQ ,
P263009 3 0 3 35 50 50 10 5 0 2 3 0 0 23 7 0 379 163 P243009 2 2 131 0 0 0 48 1 85 12 0 0 0 Afrika Korps HQ (foot) , DAK HQ (foot) ,
P263005 3 0 3 35 0 0 45 9 0 2 2 3 0 0 0 0 37 71 P263001 2 48 0 0 0 0 48 1 85 12 0 0 0 Regimental HQ , Regiment HQ ,
P263006 2 0 2 35 0 0 60 15 0 2 1 3 0 47 9 0 38 72 P263001 2 48 0 0 0 0 48 1 85 12 0 0 0 SS Battalion HQ (mot.) , SS Battalion HQ ,
P263007 2 0 2 35 50 50 10 5 0 2 1 0 0 35 5 0 374 164 P263009 2 2 131 0 0 0 48 1 85 12 0 0 0 Fallschirmjäger Battalion HQ (foot) , FS Battalion HQ ,
P264001 1 0 1 0 10 10 10 5 0 1 0 0 0 22 7 0 40 73 P264001 2 2 3 0 0 0 48 1 85 12 0 0 0 Afrika Korps Commander 1 , DAK Commander 1 ,
P264002 2 0 1 0 10 10 10 5 0 1 0 0 0 34 5 0 40 73 P264001 1 2 3 0 0 0 48 1 85 12 0 0 0 Fallschirmjäger Commander 2 , FS Commander 2 ,
P264003 3 0 1 0 10 10 10 5 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 40 73 P264001 1 2 3 0 0 0 48 1 85 12 0 0 0 Commander 3 , Commander 3 ,


I've put an bold emphasis on the previously unused parameter #15, now named as -countercell2d.

So what you see is Afrika Korps HQ points to counter cell 23, and Afrika Korps Commander points to counter cell 22.

If you look at the data carefully (and who of you wouldn't ), you will notice there's one more parameter in the data compared to legacy. That's the new parameter #16, -basecell3d. Something I will cover in my next Dev Diary for 3D Unit bases.

So what I've done then, with Syrian Counters7d26.bmp (and in its' downscaled versions), is something like what you see in the picture below. I've kept the Standard Counters basic, while I've added the Heer, DAK, Luftwaffe and SS symbols to Alternative counters.





Then, to get an outcome like this:



< Message edited by Crossroads -- 2/28/2015 5:36:42 PM >


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RE: Dev Diary #8 - 3D Unit Bases - 2/28/2015 4:30:29 PM   
Crossroads


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Crossroads

Then, to get an outcome like this:



The same Syrian Platoon data example, this time with bold emphasis on the new 16th parameter, -basecell3d:

quote:

Platoon26.oob

P263001 6 0 6 35 0 0 45 9 0 2 6 3 0 0 0 0 33 67 P263001 3 48 0 0 0 0 48 1 85 12 0 0 0 Army HQ , Army HQ ,
P263002 5 0 5 35 0 0 45 9 0 2 5 3 0 0 0 0 34 68 P263001 2 48 0 0 0 0 48 1 85 12 0 0 0 Corps HQ , Corps HQ ,
P263003 4 0 4 35 0 0 45 9 0 2 4 3 0 0 0 0 35 69 P263001 2 48 0 0 0 0 48 1 85 12 0 0 0 Divisional HQ , Division HQ ,
P263004 3 0 3 35 0 0 45 9 0 2 3 3 0 0 0 0 36 70 P263001 2 48 0 0 0 0 48 1 85 12 0 0 0 Brigade HQ , Brigade HQ ,
P263009 3 0 3 35 50 50 10 5 0 2 3 0 0 23 7 0 379 163 P243009 2 2 131 0 0 0 48 1 85 12 0 0 0 Afrika Korps HQ (foot) , DAK HQ (foot) ,
P263005 3 0 3 35 0 0 45 9 0 2 2 3 0 0 0 0 37 71 P263001 2 48 0 0 0 0 48 1 85 12 0 0 0 Regimental HQ , Regiment HQ ,
P263006 2 0 2 35 0 0 60 15 0 2 1 3 0 47 9 0 38 72 P263001 2 48 0 0 0 0 48 1 85 12 0 0 0 SS Battalion HQ (mot.) , SS Battalion HQ ,
P263007 2 0 2 35 50 50 10 5 0 2 1 0 0 35 5 0 374 164 P263009 2 2 131 0 0 0 48 1 85 12 0 0 0 Fallschirmjäger Battalion HQ (foot) , FS Battalion HQ ,
P264001 1 0 1 0 10 10 10 5 0 1 0 0 0 22 7 0 40 73 P264001 2 2 3 0 0 0 48 1 85 12 0 0 0 Afrika Korps Commander 1 , DAK Commander 1 ,
P264002 2 0 1 0 10 10 10 5 0 1 0 0 0 345 0 40 73 P264001 1 2 3 0 0 0 48 1 85 12 0 0 0 Fallschirmjäger Commander 2 , FS Commander 2 ,
P264003 3 0 1 0 10 10 10 5 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 40 73 P264001 1 2 3 0 0 0 48 1 85 12 0 0 0 Commander 3 , Commander 3 ,


This time around, the Bases[]d[].bmp got the complete facelift, with each nation ultimately ending up with their own Bases graphics file.

Here's the Syrian Bases3d26.bmp. Three rows, each with 12 cells:

- national insignia in the first row (only first cell used, I put the other ones aside here so I can swap them around)
- selected bases on the second row
- unselected based on the third row.

And that's it. No need for highlighted versions of the two. There's separate BaseHighlights[3,4,5]d.bmp for that.

Showing here are all XLVIII Pz Korp's German bases mods he posted in the "Mods and Scenarios" subforum a while ago. I combined them all into this one file so we get to see them in all their glory:




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Crossroads -- 2/28/2015 5:58:51 PM >


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RE: Dev Diary #8 - 3D Unit Bases - 2/28/2015 4:35:23 PM   
Crossroads


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quote:

Platoon26.oob

P264001 1 0 1 0 10 10 10 5 0 1 0 0 0 22 7 0 40 73 P264001 2 2 3 0 0 0 48 1 85 12 0 0 0 Afrika Korps Commander 1 , DAK Commander 1 ,


Afrika Korps bases are the eight base, but as numbering starts from 0, they are pointed by -basecell3d value "7".

Again, platoon level data points to army branches, but nothing stops you making versions with unit insignia as well. With JSGME, so easy to plug in and then remove after done with the scenario

And that's it. One of my shorted diaries, this one. Any questions let me know. I am really looking forward to seeing all those mods out there!

< Message edited by Crossroads -- 2/28/2015 5:51:47 PM >


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RE: Dev Diary #8 - 3D Unit Bases - 2/28/2015 4:45:45 PM   
Crossroads


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Crossroads
And that's it.


Of course, there's at least two significant new things still coming out with "Middle East" we've not talked about yet.

The first item is something you can observe from Platoon data presented here (can you spot it?), while the second item is something I am not telling as still some tweaks and tests being performed on it as we speak.

Both something Berto can perhaps shed some light in days and weeks to come with those Coder Diaries of his

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RE: Dev Diary #8 - 3D Unit Bases - 2/28/2015 6:36:31 PM   
XLVIIIPzKorp


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This is really exciting stuff! Amazing what you guys are accomplishing!

Petri I don't think you have all of my base files. Can you confirm you have the Allies; Marines, Guards, Japanese Army, and SNLF?

I played with a few designs for Poland this morning. I was never very happy with the originals.

Going along with your coin vs. button analogy the last example uses the original bases with insignia modification and a bit of color tweaking. The camo scheme is based off a print I've seen of the camo used on a Polish 7TP light tank.



Including a few pics of map appearance. Selected units top left corner.






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RE: Dev Diary #8 - 3D Unit Bases - 2/28/2015 6:44:26 PM   
berto


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quote:

ORIGINAL: XLVIII Pz. Korp

Going along with your coin vs. button analogy...

I think I prefer "coins" to "buttons".

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RE: Dev Diary #8 - 3D Unit Bases - 2/28/2015 6:44:35 PM   
Warhorse


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Oooohhhh

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RE: Dev Diary #8 - 3D Unit Bases - 2/28/2015 7:02:42 PM   
XLVIIIPzKorp


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quote:

ORIGINAL: berto


I think I prefer "coins" to "buttons".


Another "coin" vote. Looks like that's the way I'll go.

Thanks for the input.

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RE: Dev Diary #8 - 3D Unit Bases - 3/1/2015 2:07:35 PM   
Crossroads


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quote:

ORIGINAL: XLVIII Pz. Korp

This is really exciting stuff! Amazing what you guys are accomplishing!

Petri I don't think you have all of my base files. Can you confirm you have the Allies; Marines, Guards, Japanese Army, and SNLF?

I played with a few designs for Poland this morning. I was never very happy with the originals.

Going along with your coin vs. button analogy the last example uses the original bases with insignia modification and a bit of color tweaking. The camo scheme is based off a print I've seen of the camo used on a Polish 7TP light tank.


Cheers, I think I have them. I am really liking your Poland bases!

The green one looks really nice, I like how much lighter shade of green you're using with unselected ones, and how the selected bases stand out.

I agree with your earlier post, I prefer the unit bases not to stand out in the map.

As for the Polish camo pattern, really nice as well! Have you tried to make the unselected one a lighter shade? Similar to your Japanese bases, where the unselected camos are clearly lighter and blend into the background.

Other thing with darker camos is that if they are really dark then the units themselves are not distinguishable anymore, at least to my old and weary eyes. So my 0.02 goes to having them done like the Japanese bases are. Great stuff, keep up the good work



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RE: Dev Diary #8 - 3D Unit Bases - 3/1/2015 3:02:57 PM   
XLVIIIPzKorp


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Crossroads



As for the Polish camo pattern, really nice as well! Have you tried to make the unselected one a lighter shade? Similar to your Japanese bases, where the unselected camos are clearly lighter and blend into the background.

Other thing with darker camos is that if they are really dark then the units themselves are not distinguishable anymore, at least to my old and weary eyes. So my 0.02 goes to having them done like the Japanese bases are. Great stuff, keep up the good work





Yep, something I'm working on. Check your email later today Petri.

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RE: Dev Diary #8 - 3D Unit Bases - 3/31/2015 12:51:01 AM   
XLVIIIPzKorp


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Have spent some time cleaning up the original bases used above. I've tried to have more subtlety to the colors and less contrast for unselected units. This actually is way more time consuming than I originally thought it would be.
Things that look great as an image on a pink field more often than not appear horrible on a game map. Revised Axis bases are below. Now have a revised Afrika Korp also, and of course something for the FJ divisions.



An example has the Wehrmacht and Waffen SS in an early war scheme.



I have started tinkering with the rest of the EF gang and present the following. With Petri's permission two schemes for the Finns, a couple for the Poles, and some new Russians. Besides Guards, now have NKVD, Marines, and a winter scheme.



In the image below you can see the political officer motivating the Marines to continue the fight as Red Army tanks attempt relief from the north. Three base types in this shot.



So many nationalities.........

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RE: Dev Diary #8 - 3D Unit Bases - 3/31/2015 4:33:39 PM   
Crossroads


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They look really nice! Well done with the non-selected bases, it must be tough to get them right, but I really like how they do not stand out from the map, but instead blend very nicely with the terrain colors.

And no, I don't have exclusive rights to any nations, you or no one else needs permissions to this kind of stuff

I would like to see a basic Winter variant for Finns though, for Winter War scenarios. Something similar to Wehrmach winter bases perhaps. Tri-color camo looks great by the way!

Well done!

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RE: Dev Diary #8 - 3D Unit Bases - 5/28/2019 6:28:04 PM   
LittleBen


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Really those 3D bases are splendid !!! Really awesome…

Perhaps it could be a good idea to put the men or vehicule, not at the center, but a little more north, so that those great bases are more visible… it must should be quite easy to do for a programmer ?

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RE: Dev Diary #8 - 3D Unit Bases - 5/28/2019 6:43:06 PM   
Crossroads


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LittleBen

Really those 3D bases are splendid !!! Really awesome…

Perhaps it could be a good idea to put the men or vehicule, not at the center, but a little more north, so that those great bases are more visible… it must should be quite easy to do for a programmer ?

I believe it would be possible to mod the 3D Base graphics in a manner the bases would be moved a few pixels down for the same effect, without any code effects. I'll give it a try later on, maybe over the weekend.

Or if you have the time, go ahead and try and post here how it worked

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RE: Dev Diary #8 - 3D Unit Bases - 5/28/2019 7:48:37 PM   
LittleBen


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The fact is..I have ideas, I know a little how things go, but I'm not so able when it touch to graphisms or programmation, even if I could see what's it should do..

About graphisms, sometimes like here, I found some really beautiful, and I look at them...I zoom over them to see the pixel, and when I got there, I ask myself how something so ugly could give such a beautiful picture !! That's not the inside beauty...

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RE: Dev Diary #8 - 3D Unit Bases - 5/29/2019 5:06:06 PM   
Crossroads


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Fair enough

I will try to post a sample as how to do just that in this thread, this weekend. That's what these blog posts are about, right, to talk how to mod various features available in the game!

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RE: Dev Diary #8 - 3D Unit Bases - 6/5/2019 8:03:04 AM   
LittleBen


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Really those diaries are wonderful, and what you have done to allow moding and modifications is just superb !!

There's something that I don't understand, it's the fact that there are too many duplicates, and makes things a little strange… I will try to explain: take a PzKw V (panther), german made tank, you have Id for 5,4,3,2 SP, and Jason had a good idea to have different ones for Heer, SS, Luftwaffe… but other countries use them too, if they capture them for example… so for the same Panther tank you have 4(SP)*5(country branches)*4(different country) = 80 différents IDs for the same basic tank. But what changes from one to the other...the SP value, the 2D counter, the bmp file, the 3D base and the country, so my question is, wouldn't it be easier to have just one Panther with his inherent caracteristics in the platoon oob, and to give the 5 variable later, for example in the org file (you don't put P####, but P#### followed by the variables number).


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RE: Dev Diary #8 - 3D Unit Bases - 6/5/2019 4:23:38 PM   
Jason Petho


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We're far past redoing how the data is developed.


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RE: Dev Diary #8 - 3D Unit Bases - 6/5/2019 5:30:13 PM   
Crossroads


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That having been said, there's several instances where the legacy data model is far from optimum. I worked as a Database Administtrator among other things on my software development days, and the data model here could really use with a lot of optimization. So much of the stuff is duplicated. But here we are, and as Jason pointed, not a priority at the moment.

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RE: Dev Diary #8 - 3D Unit Bases - 6/5/2019 8:31:15 PM   
LittleBen


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Yes I perfectly see the problem, once a choice has been made it's not always easy to change it…

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