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What is the ship on the left - 1/31/2015 5:30:18 PM   
Jorge_Stanbury


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I found this picture of a King George V (the one on the right) with what looks like a Lion class battleship (the one on the left)

Problem is, the Lion class was never completed, and that ship looks almost finished.

My question: is this some kind of mockup version/ doctored picture?
or was there any KG-V built with 3-3-3 turrets?
or was it really as advanced as it looks by the time of its cancellation






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< Message edited by Jorge_Stanbury -- 1/31/2015 6:31:21 PM >
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RE: What is the ship on the left - 1/31/2015 6:27:05 PM   
dr.hal


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None of the ships in the KGV class had triple turrets, they all had ten rifles, two quad and one double turrets.

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RE: What is the ship on the left - 1/31/2015 7:14:04 PM   
warspite1


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Iirc the two ships of the Lion-class that were laid down, were cancelled with work barely started. This must be a doctored picture.

< Message edited by warspite1 -- 1/31/2015 8:15:04 PM >


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RE: What is the ship on the left - 1/31/2015 7:20:05 PM   
Jim D Burns


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The HMS Temeraire was laid down in June of 38 I believe, so it’s possible that is the ship. I couldn’t find an actual image of it, but this model pic looks close to your image.

Jim





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RE: What is the ship on the left - 1/31/2015 7:35:30 PM   
AW1Steve


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While Lion was not scrapped till 1945 , no turrets were ever fitted to her. Temeraire was even less completed. I can't find any reference to any other late model British BB with triple turrets (the last BB, Vanguard , had twin turrets). It's a bit of a mystery. Also notice the date stamp.

Note the JPEG file calls it Lion. So maybe a altered photo?

< Message edited by AW1Steve -- 1/31/2015 8:36:47 PM >


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RE: What is the ship on the left - 1/31/2015 7:36:14 PM   
warspite1


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No it's not - she was no where near complete - not even launched, when she was cancelled.

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RE: What is the ship on the left - 1/31/2015 7:39:54 PM   
Jaroen


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Jim, the reason for not finding a photo of the ship is because there was no ship. Like warspite1 says, production was cancelled very early. Just te keel was laid down and only production on 16" guns continued. Btw, all according to wikipedia which is citing:

Garzke, William H., Jr.; Dulin, Robert O., Jr. (1980). British, Soviet, French, and Dutch Battleships of World War II. London: Jane's. ISBN 0-7106-0078-X.

and

Raven, Alan; Roberts, John (1976). British Battleships of World War Two: The Development and Technical History of the Royal Navy's Battleship and Battlecruisers from 1911 to 1946. Annapolis, Maryland: Naval Institute Press. ISBN 0-87021-817-4.

Pretty genuine I think.

Also, that picture by Jorge_Stanbury can be found here:
http://www.worldaffairsboard.com/battleships-board/58361-king-george-v-class-battleship-1939-a-5.html
Which presents a pretty solid discussion on the KG V class also showing drawings and a 3d model of the Lion next to our picture. All put together, it's all a big what-if . . . but I think it does show what the Lion might have looked like quite well!

PS (edited later):
Checked on the Lion/Temeraire construction with my "Nelson to Vanguard" book. That confirms construction stopped very soon after being laid down and only gun mounts construction continued. Simply put, these ships weren't. Ergo, picture is fake.

< Message edited by Jaroen -- 1/31/2015 8:53:24 PM >

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RE: What is the ship on the left - 1/31/2015 7:42:58 PM   
AW1Steve


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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

No it's not - she was no where near complete - not even launched, when she was cancelled.



No it's not what? The Lion, Temeraire, or an altered photo?

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RE: What is the ship on the left - 1/31/2015 7:47:12 PM   
warspite1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

No it's not - she was no where near complete - not even launched, when she was cancelled.


No it's not what? The Lion, Temeraire, or an altered photo?
warspite1

I was responding to Jim D Burns. It's not a Lion-class - unless its a doctored photo.



< Message edited by warspite1 -- 1/31/2015 8:47:46 PM >


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RE: What is the ship on the left - 1/31/2015 7:48:18 PM   
Jim D Burns


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quote:

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

No it's not what? The Lion, Temeraire, or an altered photo?


Might be a shot of some ship models touched up to look grainy and genuine. I see no people anywhere in the pic. Number on the pic suggest 1954, any post-war Battleships with triple 3's?

Jim

< Message edited by Jim D Burns -- 1/31/2015 8:50:43 PM >


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RE: What is the ship on the left - 1/31/2015 7:54:31 PM   
warspite1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns

quote:

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve

No it's not what? The Lion, Temeraire, or an altered photo?


Might be a shot of some ship models touched up to look grainy and genuine. I see no people anywhere in the pic. Number on the pic suggest 1954, any post-war Battleships with triple 3's?

Jim
warspite1

The last British BB was Vanguard and she was scrapped in 1960. The four surviving KGV's were scrapped in 1957.

We had no BB's with that armament arrangement.


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RE: What is the ship on the left - 1/31/2015 7:57:19 PM   
Jim D Burns


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Then I vote this is a shot of some model ships including a Lion and King George. Too many similarities between the two ships for it to be a battleship of another nation.

JIm

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RE: What is the ship on the left - 1/31/2015 8:00:59 PM   
Jaroen


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Jim, that picture clearly shows a major likeness to the KG V class! Not just some . . . but a lot!
Also, check that link I included with my earlier post! It's from a webforum discussing the KG V and mentions the Lion class.

It's a fake!

For more info on British Battleships:
http://www.battleships-cruisers.co.uk/battleships.htm

There were no 3x3 gun mounts with the Britsh aside from the Rodney/Nelson.
And there were no other battleships anywhere in the world looking 95% like the KG V.

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RE: What is the ship on the left - 1/31/2015 8:05:22 PM   
warspite1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jaroen

Jim, that picture clearly shows a major likeness to the KG V class! Not just some . . . but a lot!
Also, check that link I included with my earlier post! It's from a webforum discussing the KG V and mentions the Lion class.

It's a fake!

For more info on British Battleships:
http://www.battleships-cruisers.co.uk/battleships.htm

There were no 3x3 gun mounts with the Britsh aside from the Rodney/Nelson.
And there were no other battleships anywhere in the world looking 95% like the KG V.
warspite1

Yes, and they had three turrets forward.



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RE: What is the ship on the left - 1/31/2015 9:56:45 PM   
John 3rd


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I vote DOCTORED!


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RE: What is the ship on the left - 1/31/2015 10:05:33 PM   
Jorge_Stanbury


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Maybe the original picture had 2 KGVs, and someone "photoshopped" the turrets

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RE: What is the ship on the left - 1/31/2015 10:45:04 PM   
msieving1


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The ship on the left is Vanguard, photoshopped to show 3 gun turrets.






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RE: What is the ship on the left - 1/31/2015 11:09:04 PM   
Jorge_Stanbury


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RE: What is the ship on the left - 1/31/2015 11:11:15 PM   
Mobeer


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Duke of York and Vanguard \ "a Lion", from:
http://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=327837

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