Matrix Games Forums

Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

Storms

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Norm Koger's The Operational Art Of War III >> Scenario Design >> Storms Page: [1]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
Storms - 1/7/2015 9:59:15 PM   
ogar

 

Posts: 297
Joined: 9/6/2009
Status: offline
I have a few questions about using Storms as an Event effect in a scenario :

1. As I understand it, Storms effect lasts only one turn. Correct ? So, if I want to have 3 consecutive turns with Storms, then I need to have events fire Storms for each of those turns, right ?

2. What exactly does Storms do ? The manual mentions changes to movement and combat, but it's the usual hand-wavium, cloudius-mysterium-malarkium. Any specifics ?

3. I've read (Evil Ed...) that it is wise to add separate effects to Storms to get special effects desired. Such as Air and/or Ground Shock, Refugees (to clog the roads), etc. What have other designers found out by employing these ?

Thanks.
Post #: 1
RE: Storms - 1/8/2015 9:19:38 AM   
Oberst_Klink

 

Posts: 4280
Joined: 2/10/2008
From: Germany
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ogar

I have a few questions about using Storms as an Event effect in a scenario :

1. As I understand it, Storms effect lasts only one turn. Correct ? So, if I want to have 3 consecutive turns with Storms, then I need to have events fire Storms for each of those turns, right ?

2. What exactly does Storms do ? The manual mentions changes to movement and combat, but it's the usual hand-wavium, cloudius-mysterium-malarkium. Any specifics ?

3. I've read (Evil Ed...) that it is wise to add separate effects to Storms to get special effects desired. Such as Air and/or Ground Shock, Refugees (to clog the roads), etc. What have other designers found out by employing these ?

Thanks.

Ogar,

the best bet is to have a look at Last Stand in Africa... there the storm, mud, etc. phase is in my opinion perfectly modelled.

Klink, Oberst

_____________________________

My Blog & on Twitter.
Visit CS Legion on Twitter & Facebook for updates.

(in reply to ogar)
Post #: 2
RE: Storms - 1/9/2015 9:36:39 PM   
ogar

 

Posts: 297
Joined: 9/6/2009
Status: offline
Thanks, Oberst ! will do.

(in reply to Oberst_Klink)
Post #: 3
RE: Storms - 1/9/2015 10:49:53 PM   
golden delicious


Posts: 4870
Joined: 9/5/2000
From: London, Surrey, United Kingdom
Status: offline
What storms does is produce rainy weather, which in turn produces mud in non-arid hexes. Hot, dry weather causes the mud to clear, but this can take several turns.

So although the direct effect of the storm may only be on one turn, the results on the map may last longer.

Mud for its part slows movement except on improved roads so that is covered. The clouds that go with rain also reduce the effectiveness of air attacks, though arguably not enough.

_____________________________

"What did you read at university?"
"War Studies"
"War? Huh. What is it good for?"
"Absolutely nothing."

(in reply to ogar)
Post #: 4
RE: Storms - 1/11/2015 5:15:52 PM   
ogar

 

Posts: 297
Joined: 9/6/2009
Status: offline
Thanks for the response, GD. I've been running some tests in a simple WWII scenario, but it greatly helps to know what others think is supposed to happen (vs. what I happen to notice). Up till now I had not seen any mud effects on MP, foot/mixed/motorized; but maybe I need to run the scenario longer and/or more carefully watch the weather after storms.

Thanks again.

(in reply to golden delicious)
Post #: 5
RE: Storms - 1/13/2015 1:06:36 AM   
governato

 

Posts: 886
Joined: 5/6/2011
From: Seattle, WA
Status: offline
I used storm events produce snow in cold weather zones (East Front 41-45). It seems like several consecutive storm events are needed to create significant snow coverage on the ground. 'snow' conditions will turn into mud and then disappear when the weather warms up (temperature is set by separate cold/warm front events, which also freeze marshes and rivers)

< Message edited by governato -- 1/13/2015 2:07:19 AM >

(in reply to ogar)
Post #: 6
RE: Storms - 1/18/2015 5:15:19 PM   
ogar

 

Posts: 297
Joined: 9/6/2009
Status: offline
Thanks to Golden Delicious and to Governato for explaining what effects they've found using Storms events.

One thing I found out while reading their thoughts, was that scale (10 km/half-week vs 2.5 km/whole day vs 25 km/week), and scope (just how *&^%$ big is that map ?!) and duration (25 turns, 60 turns, 180 turns) all likely have effects on the impact of Storms events. I also suspect that year (1943 vs 1988 vs 1914) of scenario will affect the effects.

I did some brief simple tests (2.5 km and 5 km maps, whole day turns, 1943). Tests done using standard 3.4.0.202; mods limited to some of Telumar's graphic tiles. Here's some of what I noticed using a Storms event :

Storms do have an impact on the visible weather -- graphics show clearly that storms are going on. This effect may linger into the turn following a Storms event.

Storms seem to reduce the availability of air units (whether AS CS or I). The units show up in support about 2/3 as often under Storms. When they do show up, it appears they are as effective as in clear weather.

I did not see any reduction in the availability or effectiveness of artillery units in support. (Only a few such units in my tests, so Storms may reduce artillery as well; I just did not see such effects in the tests.)

I did not find any changes to movement of ground units. This was a big surprise to me. Whether terrain = Open or Road/Open or Road/Hills or Hills or Light Forest or Bocage or Mud... the MPs required to cross the hex was the same in the Storms turn, in the clear weather turn preceding and in the turns following Storms.

I did not see any effect under Storms or following to movement in or through ZOCs.

I did not see any effect in combat results in Storms turns or following turns. (I wondered if there was a reduction in losses inflicted/taken during Storms.) Losses in combat closely resembled losses in turns preceding Storms.

I did not see any reduction to Supply availability in Storms turns or following.

So, just adding what I've found out in response to my original question. I hope if anyone else has the same question as me, that these responses will help out.

(in reply to governato)
Post #: 7
RE: Storms - 1/19/2015 6:25:42 AM   
Oberst_Klink

 

Posts: 4280
Joined: 2/10/2008
From: Germany
Status: offline
I think what was done in LSiA was, in conjunction with the storm events to adjust the movement bias and reducing the supply level until the storm event was cancelled. I also run tests and well, MP=1 for movement on primary roads... which shouldn't be the case.

Klink, Oberst

_____________________________

My Blog & on Twitter.
Visit CS Legion on Twitter & Facebook for updates.

(in reply to ogar)
Post #: 8
Page:   [1]
All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Norm Koger's The Operational Art Of War III >> Scenario Design >> Storms Page: [1]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.133