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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the West >> Unplayable Page: [1]
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Unplayable - 12/17/2014 8:07:12 PM   


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I LOVE serious wargames, and WITW is arguably the most serious grand scale title ever.

Having said that, buying WITW is what it must feel like to buy a new Porsche, and then have the dealer deliver the car to your driveway in hundreds of little boxes, completely disassembled into all its parts, with a detailed video tutorial explaining how to assemble the wiper-blades and a "manual" which "explains" each of the components like this - "Steering wheel: used to steer the vehicle"; "Gear lever: used to change gears".

Unless you're unemployed, and therefore have the time (read: many months) to reverse-engineer WITW by a process of elimination, or you did so previously with WITE, this game is unassailable, has no starting point and is therefore, imo, unplayable.

Maybe instead of wasting two tutorials on amphib and airborne landings, Grigsby's team could have explained, I dunno, movement, combat and/or supply?

For those of you who have successfully invested the requisite resources into decoding this potentially awesome game - kudos and happy hunting!

Post #: 1
RE: Unplayable - 12/17/2014 8:11:18 PM   

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There is an excellent handbook that is pretty much all you need to start playing. It helps with all the basics. Once you use that you can start to add knowledge by consulting the manual. No reason not to just start playing and moving stuff around and figure it out by trial and error. Thats what Ive done.


"Yeah that I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I shall fear no evil...because I am."

(in reply to Zels)
Post #: 2
RE: Unplayable - 12/17/2014 8:18:42 PM   

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It is difficult. I am not unemployed and do not have all the time in the world, but I try and ask the forum from time to time. And I feel that I learn bit by bit. An one day I might master this game although I doubt. Well, my point is - don't give up!

(in reply to ratprince)
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RE: Unplayable - 12/17/2014 8:23:55 PM   

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To move a unit, click on it and right-click the destination hex. If there's more than one unit in a hex, the right-hand panel will indicate which unit is selected. You can change the selection by left-clicking on the stack or by left-clicking on the right-hand panel.

To initiate combat, left-click your attacker, then hover your mouse cursor over the target hex. You'll see estimated odds. You want at least 2:1. If it looks good, right-click on the target hex. If not, hold down shift and right-click for a "deliberate" attack, which is more likely to succeed but costs more movement points. If you want to attack with more than one unit, hit spacebar to select the whole stack, or click on them in the right-hand panel to select more attackers. Hold down the shift key and move your mouse to an adjacent hex if you want to add attackers from that hex to join in.

For supply, hit N to see your depots and rail networks. Keep units near depots for supply, and keep them from being isolated, as in any other wargame. Longer-term, make new depots on named locations on undamaged rail lines or ports. To create a depot, left click on the location, then left click on the location name in the top-right hand corner, then choose create depot.

The player's manual is quite short and easy to read. Try reading that.

< Message edited by Grotius -- 12/17/2014 9:26:37 PM >


(in reply to ratprince)
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RE: Unplayable - 12/17/2014 8:24:35 PM   


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I wouldn't necessarily think learning this game is impossible. It takes time, sure, but you don't need to spend a college course to learn it. PDF manuals are great. Type in the keyword of what you're scratching your head over and it usually points you to the spot you're looking for. That's what I do.

(in reply to jnpoint)
Post #: 5
RE: Unplayable - 12/17/2014 8:31:44 PM   


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There's an excellent Players Handbook, there are a few video tutorials that enable you to slowly work your way forward from Husky to the medium sized scenarios to the bigger ones. It's much better explained than WITE. Honestly, you should try them first out before declaring the game unplayable unless you are unemployed. That you complain about not being told how to move, how to initiate combat tells me more that you haven't really invested much into the game at this point.

(in reply to ByTheNumbers)
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RE: Unplayable - 12/17/2014 8:49:35 PM   


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You love 'serious wargames' and you don't know how to move a unit? Have you never read a game manual before? You are trolling, right?

(in reply to SigUp)
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RE: Unplayable - 12/17/2014 8:56:06 PM   


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I could not disagree more, as a beginner in the Gary Grigsby's game I find WITW easy to get in, sure there are tons of details that I am far to have assimilated, but there is a huge manual that explain quite well every notions of the game and for a shorter start the manual handbook+the youtube videos helped a lot. There are way more obscure games on the market, WITW make it easy for the player by presenting a very clear information to the player.

(in reply to SigUp)
Post #: 8
RE: Unplayable - 12/17/2014 8:57:09 PM   


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I frankly don't know how much clearer the developers could have been in providing the necessary information for game play. I started with the tutorials, then played "Husky" with the handbook on my PDA. Now, after two weeks, I am managing the grand campaign successfully. I did spend the better part of a day reading the manual and making quick reference notes for my use. The comments/advice found here, by the developers and other gamers, is invaluable.

(in reply to SigUp)
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RE: Unplayable - 12/17/2014 8:57:48 PM   


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ORIGINAL: gerardo

You love 'serious wargames' and you don't know how to move a unit? Have you never read a game manual before? You are trolling, right?

The Troll Killer (Pelton) got baned for a week for collateral damage or he kill this stupid troll.

Off with your head, not that there is anything in it.Just Kidding

< Message edited by Gorforlin -- 12/17/2014 9:58:55 PM >

(in reply to gerardo)
Post #: 10
RE: Unplayable - 12/17/2014 9:11:02 PM   


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It seems to take a lot of time to become a pro racer of the Porsche for sure, but actually very little time to learn to drive well enough to have fun against lower level AI imho (as a total newb).

More and longer video tutorials would be welcome though.

(in reply to Gorforlin)
Post #: 11
RE: Unplayable - 12/17/2014 9:38:12 PM   


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I don't think Pelton is as banned as Pelton likes us all to think he is...

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RE: Unplayable - 12/17/2014 10:29:40 PM   

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Don't give up, some of the fun is in the learning.

"WITW is arguably the most serious grand scale "
That sums it up... will take some time. WITW is very open and there are many ways to play it.

Zels..... name sounds familiar... "Is it safe?" ;)

(in reply to RedBunny)
Post #: 13
RE: Unplayable - 12/17/2014 10:30:21 PM   


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I have more of an issue with the time it takes to process turns and how certain information is displayed or lacking. My only complaint with WitE and WitP:AE really (aside from not being able to build my own units in some capacity(russians don't count for you wise-cracks!) as I do not enjoy watching the details as the turn processes. I do enjoy looking at the information afterwards and analyzing them, but sometimes, particularly for AE its hard to have certain information or see certain things except during this process, so I deal with it.

To the point of the thread, to each their own I guess. Some people need a silver spoon, some people even need it operated for them. However, I for one enjoy learning how to play "serious wargames" and see no distinction between the time I learn to play and actually play a game.

He bought the game, at least it will put a check in the category of how many people are interested in such games, hopefully to allow for the creation/advancement of future titles.

I have spoken, that is all! :)

(in reply to RedBunny)
Post #: 14
RE: Unplayable - 12/17/2014 10:50:36 PM   


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Zels..... name sounds familiar... "Is it safe?" ;)

LOL! Now my teeth hurt.

(in reply to atheory)
Post #: 15
RE: Unplayable - 12/17/2014 11:04:55 PM   

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Another suggestion is to print out the last 13? pages of color reference sheets (print them in color even if you have to go to Kinkos or FedEx - it's worth the small cost). Those reference sheets have lots of "how do I?..... Oh, yeah." information on them. Keep them handy.


Dave A.
"When the Boogeyman goes to sleep he checks his closet for paratroopers"

(in reply to MisterBoats)
Post #: 16
RE: Unplayable - 12/18/2014 1:32:21 AM   

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Not difficult to play but definitely difficult to master!


You can run but you'll die tired!

(in reply to ultradave)
Post #: 17
RE: Unplayable - 12/18/2014 2:35:01 AM   

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ORIGINAL: ultradave

Another suggestion is to print out the last 13? pages of color reference sheets (print them in color even if you have to go to Kinkos or FedEx - it's worth the small cost). Those reference sheets have lots of "how do I?..... Oh, yeah." information on them. Keep them handy.

Print them, Laminate them, get them blown up to poster size, and in your war room hang them!


"We are going to attack all night, and attack tomorrow morning..... If we are not victorious, let no one come back alive!" -- Patton
The Logistics Phase is like Black Magic and Voodoo all rolled into one.

(in reply to ultradave)
Post #: 18
RE: Unplayable - 12/18/2014 3:55:06 AM   


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It's the depth of mastery that makes it fun...entertaining...and yes, educational.

As others have noted, some of the fun comes in finding out how to master the depth. And it's not just for depth or mastery sake. The model is designed to foster an understanding of the deeper intricacies of the war, logistics being one of the critical (but often ignored or overlooked) foundations.

But it's not for everyone. Games have overhead/payoff tradeoffs, and gamers have their limits. The payoff with WiTW is a better understanding of the critical foundations of strategic (and tactical) operations. The overhead is the necessary time and study to figure out how it all connects, both in terms of the model as well as in terms of what the model is attempting to portray. If you want the payoff, you gotta pay the overhead. Again, some find the overhead pay as part of the fun...others do not.

As for time...yes, that too is a factor. I grew up in the board game era, so I'm very happy with the 300 page manual. I'll spend more initial time in the manual than I will in the game. But it's not read like a novel. It's a low duty cycle initial quick run through, followed by targeted pieces. I enjoy the read. All in all, it's a combination of play, reference, and reading...over many weeks...a slow assimilation of the depth.

Not for everyone. In fact, I passed on WiTE because at the time I didn't want to (or desire) to devote the time. For WiTW, I've taken the plunge.

(in reply to Baelfiin)
Post #: 19
RE: Unplayable - 12/18/2014 6:23:29 AM   


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thanks for the feedback fellas, much appreciated.

(in reply to Zels)
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RE: Unplayable - 12/18/2014 6:52:56 PM   

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"We choose to go to the moon this decade and do the other things not because they are easy, but because they are hard." John F Kennedy

Things that are difficult to learn provide an intrinsic worth of their own... i.e. in this case, are more rewarding to play than say, checkers.


Sometimes things said in Nitwit sound very different in English.

(in reply to Zels)
Post #: 21
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