From: Bristol, UK
To extend the discussion for those worried that it is like WitE Germans in 1943-45 (i.e. slow boring push back); so is WitW less or more flexible/varied in outcome/events than WitE?
I would say it is much more varied! In WitE, June 1941, the Germans run amok - huge offensives, huge Soviet losses. But there is one, maybe 2 choices to make for the Germans, and after that it is 'execute the plan - do it right and you might win, do it wrong and you've lost'. The choices are basically 'to Lvov or not to Lvov', and Moscow in late 1941, or hold back, damage Sovs, so its fall in the 1942 offensive is inevitable'. Almost any other choice is a null one.
Most of the debates about balance have been around 'can Germany do enough damage to Russia by late 1941 to carry on and win in 1942?' So: to summarise - to win, Ge goes for Moscow and Leningrad. Do it wrong, or be outplayed and thats game over. Likewise the Russian choices are 'slow the Germans down economically without losing 2m prisoners'. Then build up, and nibble back for 2 years from 1943. The choices are roughly 'which side of the head to punch'. There is little scope for creative planning, its all in the execution for both sides.
Now, I am aware that WitE has been optimsed for years and hence a lot of dead ends have withered away, whilst WitW has not, but I suspect there will always be choices. To pick one... Calais or Normandy. Over time the idea German defence for each will doubtless be identified. But I don't think both will be possible, and thus we will always have the choice - Germany guesses wrong, and will suffer. Thus the best hybrid defence will emerge. But do the Allies need to Invade in the north in May/June 1944? What about reversing Anvil/Dragoon and Overlord? Is it possible to stop southern France being overrun whilst defending the Atlantic wall? Not a clue. I suspect it might be (at the expense of weakening the wall). But weakening the wall opens Allied options. Unless they committed too much south...
What I am trying to say is there is 'one' way to win WitE (for each side) and correct execution is far more important than anything else because the correct plan is a given. I suspect (certainly hope) that there will not be a single plan that works in WitW - I think it will be a case of flexibility, agility and responsiveness that will work - combined with a bit of Lizard-Spock. Convinced your opponent will invade Normandy, and got the courage to secretively weaken PdeC? Go for it, you deserve to win big. The flip side is you will lose big as it should be.
I can not see a WitE German saying 'Leningrad and Moscow are for wimps, I am going to surprise Stalin... 1, 2,3rd PzrG vorwarts to Stalingrad. We will be there for Easter 1942!' Well, I might, but my opponent could only lose if he laughs too much to play properly!
Just my 2p to get this debate somewhere more interesting...
Oh, and this is a completely different game guys, come on in, the water is lovely!
< Message edited by HMSWarspite -- 12/13/2014 2:18:08 PM >
I have a cunning plan, My Lord