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RE: I give up...again

 
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RE: I give up...again - 12/31/2014 8:31:56 AM   
willbowe

 

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quote:

Doh! Thanks, that the part I was missing. Now alles klar.


I'm pleased to be of help because I was reading your comments with great interest. My gaming diet pretty much begins and ends with WiF, and it was interesting to see how it looked to an experienced gamer when they dived straight in. I'm sure you will master invasions soon enough, but you are coming into contact with a legitimate flaw of the game in that it just doesn't seem logistically possible for Japan to match what it did historically. Or if it is, it requires game play of the very highest standard, which few will ever reach. With that said, I love the game to death, and hope you persevere with it. The rules may appear peculiar at first, but their logic will become apparent soon enough.

(in reply to 76mm)
Post #: 61
RE: I give up...again - 12/31/2014 8:36:52 AM   
willbowe

 

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Suggestion to WiF/ADG/MG: Change the name "shore bombardment modifier" to "sea-box land action penalty".

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Post #: 62
RE: I give up...again - 12/31/2014 10:06:58 AM   
76mm


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Actually, generally I don't have any issues with the game rules other than simply trying to understand them, but that one issue did sort of throw me for a loop, so thanks for explaining it.

Most of the issues that I have with the game seem to involve computer-related issues--forms not appearing, etc.

(in reply to willbowe)
Post #: 63
RE: I give up...again - 12/31/2014 1:00:27 PM   
Centuur


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From: Hoorn (NED).
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I'm still puzzled by the missing forms.

Can we do a Q and A on this, because it's something we have to try to get fixed.

I want to start with the basics. That is the setup of the monitor. Start MWIF, load a saved game and go to the Main Form. Press Interface and make a screenprint. Don't change anything on how the forms pop up. Leave everything as it pops up.

With this screenprint you are giving me, we can check the following:

1. Is the monitor or are the monitors correctly put in place by MWIF
2. Is the Main Form on the same monitor as the detailed map and is it not directly in the upper left corner of this monitor...






Attachment (1)

_____________________________

Peter

(in reply to 76mm)
Post #: 64
RE: I give up...again - 12/31/2014 1:34:40 PM   
brian brian

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: konevau

quote:

Doh! Thanks, that the part I was missing. Now alles klar.


I'm pleased to be of help because I was reading your comments with great interest. My gaming diet pretty much begins and ends with WiF, and it was interesting to see how it looked to an experienced gamer when they dived straight in. I'm sure you will master invasions soon enough, but you are coming into contact with a legitimate flaw of the game in that it just doesn't seem logistically possible for Japan to match what it did historically. Or if it is, it requires game play of the very highest standard, which few will ever reach. With that said, I love the game to death, and hope you persevere with it. The rules may appear peculiar at first, but their logic will become apparent soon enough.


that's interesting to me because once you know all the fine points of operating World in Flames armed forces, the Japanese can really build a big Co-Prosperity Sphere if the Germans are doing well in Russia and the Allied focus has to be on that. The Japanese can overrun most or all of China and have an Empire from Capetown to the Persian Gulf to Pearl Harbor in the game if the Allies have trouble in Europe. In the real war this would have been simply impossible due to Japanese brutality, not enough Japanese men to occupy such a vast portion of the globe, and perhaps the ways Bushido wasn't well suited to managing 20th century military logistics (something I want to study more, but can't in this game). WiF makes logistics super easy compared to history, and Partisans are too weak in the game. Japan could barely maintain it's grip on the pieces of China it did occupy because it struggled to feed it's own occupying troops everywhere; they operated on more of a logistic shoe-string than the Germans. The Japanese had to launch regular Rice Offensives inside the previously conquered territory to seize agricultural yields; this kept them from advancing deeper into China more than the Chinese did, I think.

But if the Germans are hung up on the Dnepr, Russia isn't in much danger and the Allies can simply throw hordes of Infantry in the path of the Japanese, with little concern for replacing them since they are just cardboard or now pixels. Only the Chinese had that option in the real war, but even they were more concerned with the next war than the war with Japan and they too can too easily fight the simplistically supplied WiF Japanese.

(in reply to willbowe)
Post #: 65
RE: I give up...again - 12/31/2014 2:16:30 PM   
76mm


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Centuur, I'm only home for a couple of days between trips and leave again tomorrow for ten days; I'm kinda busy between now and then, so if I don't get a chance to post that stuff tomorrow, I will do so once I'm back.

(in reply to brian brian)
Post #: 66
RE: I give up...again - 12/31/2014 2:58:11 PM   
willbowe

 

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quote:

that's interesting to me because once you know all the fine points of operating World in Flames armed forces, the Japanese can really build a big Co-Prosperity Sphere if the Germans are doing well in Russia and the Allied focus has to be on that. The Japanese can overrun most or all of China and have an Empire from Capetown to the Persian Gulf to Pearl Harbor in the game if the Allies have trouble in Europe. In the real war this would have been simply impossible due to Japanese brutality, not enough Japanese men to occupy such a vast portion of the globe, and perhaps the ways Bushido wasn't well suited to managing 20th century military logistics (something I want to study more, but can't in this game). WiF makes logistics super easy compared to history, and Partisans are too weak in the game. Japan could barely maintain it's grip on the pieces of China it did occupy because it struggled to feed it's own occupying troops everywhere; they operated on more of a logistic shoe-string than the Germans. The Japanese had to launch regular Rice Offensives inside the previously conquered territory to seize agricultural yields; this kept them from advancing deeper into China more than the Chinese did, I think.


Much of this, I'm sure, is your own higher standard of game play talking. But now you put it like this, it could just be that I haven't played a game in which Germany smashed Russia hard enough - or at least, not one against a good opponent. However, I'm surprised by what you say about Chinese partisans, which have tended to develop into a nightmare for the Japanese in my experience. Though this may be peculiar to CWiF, which is how I was playing the game for a very long time.

< Message edited by konevau -- 12/31/2014 3:59:04 PM >

(in reply to 76mm)
Post #: 67
RE: I give up...again - 12/31/2014 3:15:34 PM   
bo

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: konevau

quote:

Doh! Thanks, that the part I was missing. Now alles klar.


I'm pleased to be of help because I was reading your comments with great interest. My gaming diet pretty much begins and ends with WiF, and it was interesting to see how it looked to an experienced gamer when they dived straight in. I'm sure you will master invasions soon enough, but you are coming into contact with a legitimate flaw of the game in that it just doesn't seem logistically possible for Japan to match what it did historically. Or if it is, it requires game play of the very highest standard, which few will ever reach. With that said, I love the game to death, and hope you persevere with it. The rules may appear peculiar at first, but their logic will become apparent soon enough.



I concur with every thing you are saying and we appreciate your insight into the game, I never saw this game in action, board or computer until I became a beta tester for WIF several years ago, [wow time does fly] and you are right some of the rules seem peculiar until you see the outcome of this rule or that rule.

One of the harder rules for me to understand at first was when you place German called up reserves onto the map after the Commonwealth declared war on Germany, it was that these units could not be used in combat right away like in many computer war games, one of the board game players explained to me quite correctly that these units would have to be trained and properly equipped and this could not be done overnight so that is why they came into the game disorganized.

It took awhile for that to sink in [only because I wanted to use them right away] to my foggy brain but it makes perfect sense now as does almost every rule in the game. The game with all its rules is brilliant, IMO

Bo

< Message edited by bo -- 12/31/2014 4:18:33 PM >

(in reply to willbowe)
Post #: 68
RE: I give up...again - 12/31/2014 5:55:19 PM   
Centuur


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From: Hoorn (NED).
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quote:

ORIGINAL: 76mm

Centuur, I'm only home for a couple of days between trips and leave again tomorrow for ten days; I'm kinda busy between now and then, so if I don't get a chance to post that stuff tomorrow, I will do so once I'm back.



I'll see it when you are back.

_____________________________

Peter

(in reply to 76mm)
Post #: 69
RE: I give up...again - 1/18/2015 1:24:00 PM   
76mm


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Centuur, here is the screen shot you requested:



Also, in my current turn ALL of my US convoys came off sentry status, so all of them went back into port. Besides creating lots of production problems, it caused me to violate the treaty with Japan and thus cost me some points there. This is very irritating--most of these convoys have been in place for a long time, and I didn't do anything to change their status.

(in reply to Centuur)
Post #: 70
RE: I give up...again - 1/18/2015 5:55:45 PM   
paulderynck


Posts: 7968
Joined: 3/24/2007
From: Canada
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Quite possibly missing forms are showing up under the right monitor displayable area (the cross-hatch area in the representation below of your available screen space). I don't know if you've done this but you can try putting everything on one monitor and saving the screen layout, and then each time a form listed below appears, put it where you want and save the screen layout. The following forms have locations saved for them in a screen layout file:

Global Map
Units in Hex
Set-up Form
NRD with Checkboxes Axis Power 1
NRD with Checkboxes Axis Power 2
NRD with Checkboxes Axis Power 3
NRD with Checkboxes Axis Power 4
NRD with Checkboxes Allied Power 1
NRD with Checkboxes Allied Power 2
NRD with Checkboxes Allied Power 3
NRD with Checkboxes Allied Power 4
NRD with Checkboxes Allied Power 5
Naval review Summary with many parameters if present
Land combat
Dice display
Chat form
Interactive Tutotrial form
Sequence of Play form
Screen Layout lists present
Screen Layout count and labels
Map Views for:
Axis Power 1
Axis Power 2
Axis Power 3
Axis Power 4
Allied Power 1
Allied Power 2
Allied Power 3
Allied Power 4
Allied Power 5
Selectable units form
Detailed Map count (you can have several Detailed maps if you want - personally, this just confuses me)
Detailed Map List
Detailed map settings (these last 2 repeat as needed)

The key thing I've found, is where is the Main Form? I've had far less problems by keeping it above the Detailed Map and over to the right about the width of the window that appears for selectable air units in various phases. Putting it at the bottom of the screen or on the right when the Detailed map is on the left has been deadly for causing difficulties.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by paulderynck -- 1/18/2015 6:57:16 PM >


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Post #: 71
RE: I give up...again - 1/18/2015 7:47:18 PM   
Centuur


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Well, we at least know that the monitors are correctly displayed in the program. Leaves indeed the question: where is the main form? It isn't visible in your screen layout...

If you are using the latest patch, there is a bug present regarding the convoys. That will be fixed in the next public beta (we hope).

_____________________________

Peter

(in reply to paulderynck)
Post #: 72
RE: I give up...again - 1/19/2015 2:23:34 AM   
76mm


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Guys, thanks for the tips. A couple of responses:

1) The main form is in the top center of the monitor on the right (the secondary monitor). The main monitor is completely dedicated to the detail map, the right monitor has the main form, the global map, and the turn sequence indicator (otherwise I have no idea where I am in the turn). This set up works really well for me, I've tried putting the main form at the top center of the main monitor, but didn't like juggling between the main form and the detailed map...

2) I have not tried creating a single-screen saved set up, but my secondary screen is pretty easy to turn on/off, so one of the first things I'll do is turn off the secondary screen in an attempt to force everything onto the main monitor. Usually this doesn't work, however. I noticed that there is a setting in the interface menu to do the same thing, although you have to exit and re-enter the game for it to take effect.

< Message edited by 76mm -- 1/19/2015 3:25:45 AM >

(in reply to Centuur)
Post #: 73
RE: I give up...again - 1/19/2015 5:47:02 AM   
AxelNL


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From: The Netherlands
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quote:

ORIGINAL: 76mm

Guys, thanks for the tips. A couple of responses:

1) The main form is in the top center of the monitor on the right (the secondary monitor). The main monitor is completely dedicated to the detail map, the right monitor has the main form, the global map, and the turn sequence indicator (otherwise I have no idea where I am in the turn). This set up works really well for me, I've tried putting the main form at the top center of the main monitor, but didn't like juggling between the main form and the detailed map...

2) I have not tried creating a single-screen saved set up, but my secondary screen is pretty easy to turn on/off, so one of the first things I'll do is turn off the secondary screen in an attempt to force everything onto the main monitor. Usually this doesn't work, however. I noticed that there is a setting in the interface menu to do the same thing, although you have to exit and re-enter the game for it to take effect.


Re 1: I have the same setup. Main form a couple of centimeters from the left side on top of the second right monitor. Works fine since I have this. From time to time forms on appearing over the map itself gt behind it, but that is occasional and quickly found by making the map a bit smaller on the left side.

Turning of the right monitor will not help. The PC and MWiF will still act as if it is still there. Better to have that saved extra screen layout (.sly) file.

(in reply to 76mm)
Post #: 74
RE: I give up...again - 1/19/2015 11:26:29 PM   
paulderynck


Posts: 7968
Joined: 3/24/2007
From: Canada
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quote:

ORIGINAL: 76mm

Guys, thanks for the tips. A couple of responses:

1) The main form is in the top center of the monitor on the right (the secondary monitor). The main monitor is completely dedicated to the detail map, the right monitor has the main form, the global map, and the turn sequence indicator (otherwise I have no idea where I am in the turn). This set up works really well for me, I've tried putting the main form at the top center of the main monitor, but didn't like juggling between the main form and the detailed map...

This is exactly what I tried a few years back when beta-testing multiple monitors for the game. I liked the idea of dedicating my entire largest monitor to the Detailed Map and putting all the others to the right on the smaller screen. I had no end of problems - mainly to do with where forms were opening (or not opening, it seemed).

I know AxelNL has said it works OK for him, but my recommendation would still be to live with losing the inch and a half or so at the top above the Detailed Map.

Edit: The other forms are not as finicky as the Main Form.

< Message edited by paulderynck -- 1/20/2015 12:28:46 AM >


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Paul

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Post #: 75
RE: I give up...again - 1/20/2015 1:23:55 PM   
gw15


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multiple monitors work great for me. No problems.

(in reply to paulderynck)
Post #: 76
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