Matrix Games Forums

Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

CHRIST- I hate the new air system

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the West >> CHRIST- I hate the new air system Page: [1]
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
CHRIST- I hate the new air system - 12/7/2014 9:17:15 PM   
tiger111

 

Posts: 446
Joined: 11/25/2005
Status: offline
I know the air system in WITE was flawed but I hate the new air system in WITW.

I`ve posted queries many times and I thank those who have taken the trouble to reply but honestly I`m still not getting it at all....

Please tell how to create AD`s and implement them, Lots of air units in the details page shows " Air Directive -None.

What is the difference between Air Directive and Doctrine.???

Using Red Lancers settings in his posts a few weeks ago the simplistic air doctrine settingsd just destoyes my aircraft. The worst of it is that I cannot see why things are happening .
Sorry don`t mean to rant
Post #: 1
RE: CHRIST- I hate the new air system - 12/7/2014 9:43:16 PM   
Talon_XBMCX


Posts: 220
Joined: 8/1/2008
Status: offline
I thought the videos showed a good example of how to create AD's and execute them.

(in reply to tiger111)
Post #: 2
RE: CHRIST- I hate the new air system - 12/7/2014 9:57:00 PM   
Belphegor


Posts: 2209
Joined: 5/10/2004
Status: offline
This will take a couple of replies... And I'm not sure if it'll be helpful but I'll narrow it in once you comment.

Once I've set doctrine and set new directives automatically I chose show air directive targets (aircraft with target). Once I see the target boxes I'll shift them over with show directive summary (aircraft with list)

Once the summary comes up I'll click on the link to the directive I want to change (next post)






Attachment (1)

(in reply to tiger111)
Post #: 3
RE: CHRIST- I hate the new air system - 12/7/2014 10:05:26 PM   
Belphegor


Posts: 2209
Joined: 5/10/2004
Status: offline
I want to move the GND attack for Luftflotte 2 over a bit and concentrate on what's going on near messina... big red arrow previous post...

Adjust the target hex, and if I want to add groups I remove the GROUPS item from auto and begin selecting more aircraft.

edit: ooops, changed image slightly.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Belphegor -- 12/7/2014 11:23:47 PM >

(in reply to Belphegor)
Post #: 4
RE: CHRIST- I hate the new air system - 12/7/2014 10:26:23 PM   
Belphegor


Posts: 2209
Joined: 5/10/2004
Status: offline
If you want to manually add another directive, ensure you click the appropriate button on the menu which will allow you to choose a new directive on the screen (new ground attack available in the above screenshot... bottom of current directives for LFLotte2)

(in reply to Belphegor)
Post #: 5
RE: CHRIST- I hate the new air system - 12/8/2014 8:07:08 AM   
RedLancer


Posts: 4312
Joined: 11/16/2005
From: UK
Status: offline
I'll try and go right back to basics. I apologise if this may sound patronising. That is certainly not my intent.

- Air Directives are global orders set by Air HQs. They can be narrow or broad in their scope (time/space/targets). They are big hand, small map statements of intent.

- Air Groups fly missions in line with the Air Directive Orders. You can either specify which groups should fly or leave aon AUTO and allow the system to pick. Most of the allocation is done by the computer.

- Air Doctrine settings are the basic rules for the Air Groups to follow when flying the missions. When a new AD is created then it automatically uses the Air Doctrine default settings. You can amend those settings within the AD and then reverse engineer the default Doctrine from the new AD - but that won't change the other AD settings.

There are two methods of creating ADs - Auto and Manual.

- Auto is by far the easiest. You set rough priorities and the same functionality used by the AI sets the ADs for you.

- Manual leaves it all to you. One Page Guide #6 shows the process and I really can't explain it any better.

The reason that you are seeing Air Groups with AD set as None is that you have probably got all the ADs with AUTO air group selection. This creates a highly organised free for all - when the Air Phase runs the system picks the Air Groups required.

_____________________________

John
WitE2 Asst Producer
WitE & WitW Dev

(in reply to Belphegor)
Post #: 6
RE: CHRIST- I hate the new air system - 12/8/2014 8:55:43 AM   
wosung

 

Posts: 692
Joined: 7/18/2005
Status: offline

Is it possible to define max operational ranges in the air doctrines? This would be really helpful.

As well as an option: *day/night bombing in the same area* for co-ordinating Mighty 8 and Bomber Command.

Are the altitude settings in air doctrines mandatory for air directives? (when I set them to +20k ft for the Bomber Command it seems to me that esp some night missions are flying under 20k ft.)

It would be great if you could get back directly from the planned air mission list to the ai air directive setting (the one which is auto-displayed at the beginning of the air turn).

Edit: I don't hate the new air system. I think HQ centred ROE is exactly the way to go.

< Message edited by wosung -- 12/8/2014 9:57:49 AM >

(in reply to RedLancer)
Post #: 7
RE: CHRIST- I hate the new air system - 12/8/2014 9:36:10 AM   
Peltonx


Posts: 7250
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Augustas

I know the air system in WITE was flawed but I hate the new air system in WITW.

I`ve posted queries many times and I thank those who have taken the trouble to reply but honestly I`m still not getting it at all....

Please tell how to create AD`s and implement them, Lots of air units in the details page shows " Air Directive -None.

What is the difference between Air Directive and Doctrine.???

Using Red Lancers settings in his posts a few weeks ago the simplistic air doctrine settingsd just destoyes my aircraft. The worst of it is that I cannot see why things are happening .
Sorry don`t mean to rant


I really did not care for it at first myself to be honest because I hate learning new systems, as we age old dog new trixs thing (50).

But once I stopped btching its grown on me and it is a huge step up from WitE.

I am still learning it and have a long ways to go before mastering it.

Take you time and keep asking questions and you will get it in time. Once you get hang of it its very good.

P.S I don't thk Jesus cares what you think of it.


< Message edited by Pelton -- 12/8/2014 10:37:29 AM >


_____________________________

Beta Tester WitW & WitE

(in reply to tiger111)
Post #: 8
RE: CHRIST- I hate the new air system - 12/8/2014 9:47:13 AM   
warspite1


Posts: 41329
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pelton

P.S I don't thk Jesus cares what you think of it.

warspite1

I don't think that is true. Jesus cares for all of us. However, I would imagine the Son of God is a little too busy to be looking into the vagaries of the air system in a computer war game. Perhaps the OP would have been better directing his frustration at the developers rather than Jesus?


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to Peltonx)
Post #: 9
RE: CHRIST- I hate the new air system - 12/8/2014 10:47:31 AM   
Helpless


Posts: 15793
Joined: 8/27/2004
Status: offline
quote:

Is it possible to define max operational ranges in the air doctrines?


Theoretically it is possible. We tried to keep doctrine setting at the required minimum at first.

quote:

As well as an option: *day/night bombing in the same area* for co-ordinating Mighty 8 and Bomber Command.


I think this is a setting for the AI. I'm not sure how easy it would be to implement, but for me it sounds logical settings. not sure if AI already doesn't do it by default.

quote:

Are the altitude settings in air doctrines mandatory for air directives? (when I set them to +20k ft for the Bomber Command it seems to me that esp some night missions are flying under 20k ft.)


Altitude setting in doctrine values just define the default when you create one manually. I think AI has it's own logic.

quote:

It would be great if you could get back directly from the planned air mission list to the ai air directive setting (the one which is auto-displayed at the beginning of the air turn).


Iirc, there is text buttons on the top to navigate between two screens.



_____________________________

Pavel Zagzin
WITE/WITW/WITE-2 Development

(in reply to wosung)
Post #: 10
RE: CHRIST- I hate the new air system - 12/8/2014 1:35:08 PM   
LarryP


Posts: 3782
Joined: 5/15/2005
From: Carson City, NV
Status: offline
Reading the forum title I thought this was directed towards Christ?!

(in reply to Helpless)
Post #: 11
RE: CHRIST- I hate the new air system - 12/8/2014 2:08:56 PM   
Kriegsspieler

 

Posts: 205
Joined: 12/3/2006
Status: offline
One last thing to do in addition to everything above: don't forget to push the "confirm" button!
(I'm serious - nothing was showing up from my careful planning until I realized I had to do this)

I think the air system is nicely conceived, but a complete beast to master. Slowly slowly I managing to do so, however.

This is how one spends one's time with a newly released Grigsby game, trying to figure out its intricacies while they get to work on squishing bugs and balancing it.

(in reply to LarryP)
Post #: 12
RE: CHRIST- I hate the new air system - 12/8/2014 3:35:29 PM   
abulbulian


Posts: 1042
Joined: 3/31/2005
Status: offline
Yes, there's a learning curve for the new air system in WitW. People have to understand that in order to design an interface that can offer the detail and complexity that hard core people want as well as a light weight version for people that don't want to get too deep in, you're going to have a learning curve. It's a little steep at first, but with the manual, one-page guides, and forum posts it won't take long to have an understanding to allow one to play as deep as they like.

Know some may struggle a bit in the beginning, but once you get it down you'll really start to appreciate the air system in WitW. Unlike WitE with it's vastness, the air campaign in the western theater was on a decisive scale for the allies. Thus, to not give it the attention and depth would have been a disservice to the game and us gamers.




_____________________________

- Beta Tester WitE and ATG
- Alpha/Beta Tester WitW and WitE2

"Invincibility lies in the defence; the possibility of victory in the attack." - Sun Tzu

(in reply to Kriegsspieler)
Post #: 13
RE: CHRIST- I hate the new air system - 12/8/2014 4:05:11 PM   
abulbulian


Posts: 1042
Joined: 3/31/2005
Status: offline
nm found my answer ...

< Message edited by abulbulian -- 12/8/2014 5:05:53 PM >


_____________________________

- Beta Tester WitE and ATG
- Alpha/Beta Tester WitW and WitE2

"Invincibility lies in the defence; the possibility of victory in the attack." - Sun Tzu

(in reply to Belphegor)
Post #: 14
RE: CHRIST- I hate the new air system - 12/8/2014 4:48:56 PM   
tiger111

 

Posts: 446
Joined: 11/25/2005
Status: offline
From the OP.
Thanks for all your replies and help.
My biggest problem was that I dod not apply the directives on the auto AD panel (top LT). :( !!!!!! I was really tearing my hair out wondering why my air groups were doing nothing and getting smashed on the ground.

By the way what does ! mean next to an on-map airfield? - overcrowding?

Lastly, my irreverent mention of the son of God was in frustration and I was hoping for some divine guidance. ( No I`m not religeous)

(in reply to abulbulian)
Post #: 15
RE: CHRIST- I hate the new air system - 12/8/2014 5:03:39 PM   
Belphegor


Posts: 2209
Joined: 5/10/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Augustas


By the way what does ! mean next to an on-map airfield? - overcrowding?




Yes. (see, I can provide a simple answer )

(in reply to tiger111)
Post #: 16
RE: CHRIST- I hate the new air system - 12/8/2014 5:21:39 PM   
abulbulian


Posts: 1042
Joined: 3/31/2005
Status: offline
Section 8.3.5

Air base load (capacity) percentage is shown in
parentheses on the hex pop-up text for the air base
unit after air base unit size. When the air base unit load
percentage is over 100, an exclamation point will be
added next to the airfield symbol.


_____________________________

- Beta Tester WitE and ATG
- Alpha/Beta Tester WitW and WitE2

"Invincibility lies in the defence; the possibility of victory in the attack." - Sun Tzu

(in reply to Belphegor)
Post #: 17
RE: CHRIST- I hate the new air system - 12/8/2014 6:47:01 PM   
KWG


Posts: 1249
Joined: 9/29/2012
Status: offline
Maybe Jesus is his copilot.



Its a complex and deep game that takes time to learn much less master.... for years I held the mouse and moved the pad around...... yet the tune will come to you at last.

Don't forget "shift o" (oh). Very helpful to see the flak when planning air missions

(in reply to abulbulian)
Post #: 18
RE: CHRIST- I hate the new air system - 12/8/2014 7:40:06 PM   
jnpoint


Posts: 549
Joined: 8/9/2007
From: Holstebro, Denmark
Status: offline
Apart from the heading for this thread, it's a very interesting topic. I'm still learning and also confused, but a thread like this is a good help. Thanks.

(in reply to KWG)
Post #: 19
RE: CHRIST- I hate the new air system - 12/8/2014 9:51:37 PM   
ogre

 

Posts: 33
Joined: 11/29/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Pelton

P.S I don't thk Jesus cares what you think of it.

warspite1

I don't think that is true. Jesus cares for all of us. However, I would imagine the Son of God is a little too busy to be looking into the vagaries of the air system in a computer war game. Perhaps the OP would have been better directing his frustration at the developers rather than Jesus?



Gary Grigsby "is" the grognard god. So metaphorically speaking the OP is directing frustration at the developer...who, by the way...are a trinity.



(in reply to jnpoint)
Post #: 20
RE: CHRIST- I hate the new air system - 12/9/2014 12:19:29 AM   
Numdydar

 

Posts: 3211
Joined: 2/13/2004
Status: offline
If true, makes you wonder which one is the holy ghost ?

(in reply to ogre)
Post #: 21
Page:   [1]
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the West >> CHRIST- I hate the new air system Page: [1]
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.273