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OT-Little help tank guys.. - 11/28/2014 1:17:48 PM   
crsutton


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I thought this was a Soviet chassis on this hybrid but can not find anything remotely similar. Does anyone know?




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RE: OT-Little help tank guys.. - 11/28/2014 7:06:48 PM   
btd64


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The word "GAS" is in english on the front fender. Could be an Israeli mod of a russian tank captured from the arabs. Can't make out the image on the turent....GP

Edit; Looks like desert terrian.

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RE: OT-Little help tank guys.. - 11/28/2014 7:49:26 PM   
geofflambert


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I'm pretty sure that's a Soviet KV tank

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RE: OT-Little help tank guys.. - 11/28/2014 7:51:04 PM   
geofflambert


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Look here. If it is it's been modified somewhat.

http://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/ww2/soviet/soviet_KV-1.php

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RE: OT-Little help tank guys.. - 11/28/2014 7:52:49 PM   
geofflambert


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The Russians appropriated many English words especially American English words. Not sure about gasoline.

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RE: OT-Little help tank guys.. - 11/28/2014 7:52:53 PM   
Jim D Burns


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Soldier looks Chinese, his combat belt and jacket appears to be US WWII gear, so perhaps a lend lease equipped unit. Tank appears to be an M26 Pershing to me.

http://www.tanksinworldwar2.com/usa-heavy-tank-m26.php

Jim


< Message edited by Jim D Burns -- 11/28/2014 8:54:16 PM >


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RE: OT-Little help tank guys.. - 11/28/2014 7:56:06 PM   
geofflambert


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Your right it's a Pershing. Look at the symbol on the turret. It's Taiwanese, or Kwomintang if you like. Korean War.

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RE: OT-Little help tank guys.. - 11/28/2014 8:06:40 PM   
geofflambert


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A small number of those made it into action in WWII and killed some Tigers. Chang Kai-Shek wanted badly to get into the Korean War from the start, but we held them back so as not to offend Red China. After Mao sent in troops that was different, we were happy to have the help, even though they weren't in the United Nations.

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RE: OT-Little help tank guys.. - 11/28/2014 8:13:19 PM   
Jim D Burns


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quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

A small number of those made it into action in WWII and killed some Tigers.


Too bad these never made it into combat, they would have been something to see in action. 300 mm max armor and over 4 meters wide!

http://www.tanksinworldwar2.com/usa-heavy-tank-t28.php

Jim

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RE: OT-Little help tank guys.. - 11/28/2014 8:23:53 PM   
cohimbra


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Isn't like this (maybe an asian version of M46 Patton)?




< Message edited by cohimbra -- 11/28/2014 9:26:58 PM >

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RE: OT-Little help tank guys.. - 11/28/2014 8:38:53 PM   
wdolson

 

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The turret and hull look right, but the wheels on the one in the video look odd. I haven't seen a tank after early WW II with spoked wheels.

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RE: OT-Little help tank guys.. - 11/28/2014 8:42:33 PM   
geofflambert


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Nope. That's a Pershing in your pic.




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RE: OT-Little help tank guys.. - 11/28/2014 8:45:44 PM   
geofflambert


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Now I'm confused. I see where you got your pic from.
here's the Wiki pic





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< Message edited by geofflambert -- 11/28/2014 9:46:29 PM >

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RE: OT-Little help tank guys.. - 11/28/2014 8:47:07 PM   
crsutton


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Well, that is a Pershing turret but nothing else about it says Pershing. Does not look like any sort of KV chassis either. The tank is from a Chinese War Movie "Assembly" which is mentioned in another thread here (Watch it! It is good.) and depicts events in the Civil War and Korean War. This is a Chinese tank of some sort with a Pershing turret mated to it. But I can't find any reference to that chassis.

Well, now that I look at it, the hull may be a Pershing as well. However, the running gear is definitely Chinese, I suppose.

Check out the film. The mix of hardware is amazing. Just like you would expect in the Chinese conflict. From mausers and maxim guns to the latest American weapons. One Chinese officer is wearing an old mauser pistol with the wood stock/holster. That is a real collectors item.

< Message edited by crsutton -- 11/28/2014 9:48:39 PM >


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RE: OT-Little help tank guys.. - 11/28/2014 8:49:28 PM   
geofflambert


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The Wiki of course is ridiculous, calling it a medium tank. 88,000 lbs. Pershing was considered our first heavy, at 75,000 pounds.

The Wiki tank has no skirt.

It also doesn't seem to have a muzzle break.

< Message edited by geofflambert -- 11/28/2014 9:51:38 PM >

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RE: OT-Little help tank guys.. - 11/28/2014 9:06:06 PM   
crsutton


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The Pershing was reclassified by the Army as a medium tank sometime during the Korean War or abouts.

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RE: OT-Little help tank guys.. - 11/28/2014 9:24:46 PM   
Jim D Burns


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quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

Well, that is a Pershing turret but nothing else about it says Pershing.


I’m thinking the spoke wheels are some kind of custom mod to reduce weight for increased speed or perhaps a cost savings attempt to reduce production costs.

The Patton tank didn’t go into production until 1952, and the KMT fell in 1949 so this can’t be a Patton if the troops shown are KMT forces.

http://www.militaryfactory.com/armor/detail.asp?armor_id=29

Edit: A movie huh? So its a Hollywood design, forget historical accuracy.

Jim


< Message edited by Jim D Burns -- 11/28/2014 10:26:36 PM >


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RE: OT-Little help tank guys.. - 11/28/2014 9:52:06 PM   
geofflambert


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns

quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

Well, that is a Pershing turret but nothing else about it says Pershing.


I’m thinking the spoke wheels are some kind of custom mod to reduce weight for increased speed or perhaps a cost savings attempt to reduce production costs.

The Patton tank didn’t go into production until 1952, and the KMT fell in 1949 so this can’t be a Patton if the troops shown are KMT forces.

http://www.militaryfactory.com/armor/detail.asp?armor_id=29

Edit: A movie huh? So its a Hollywood design, forget historical accuracy.

Jim



I was thinking they still called themselves that after they occupied Formosa. I could be wrong and often am.


< Message edited by geofflambert -- 11/28/2014 10:53:01 PM >

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RE: OT-Little help tank guys.. - 11/28/2014 10:22:01 PM   
pnzrgnral

 

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The tank chassis is reminiscent of a Soviet T-54 tank; look at the gap between the first & second road wheels - also the construction of the wheels. This may have been a VISMOD (visual modification) to make it appear as an M26 Pershing. Several examples of VISMODs done in the past: Soviet T-34/85s to Tiger I's for "Kelly's Heroes," Panther V's to M-10's for 150th Panzer Brigade (Battle of the Bulge), and M551 Sheridans to Soviet T-72's for both the National Training Center and Joint Readiness Training Center.

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RE: OT-Little help tank guys.. - 11/28/2014 10:27:16 PM   
geofflambert


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I still hold that it is a Nationalist Chinese tank and they had the real thing.

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RE: OT-Little help tank guys.. - 11/28/2014 10:34:17 PM   
pontiouspilot


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Running gear looked T-54 to me too.

Is that what they did for the Tigers in Kelly's Heroes??? Now I have to re-watch that ....I thought those were the real meal deal!

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RE: OT-Little help tank guys.. - 11/28/2014 10:46:18 PM   
wdolson

 

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The Patton tanks are a bit confusing because the name was applied to 4 different tanks. The first one, the M-46 Patton was an evolution of the M-26 and it had similar lines to the M-26. If that movie was made by the communist Chinese in the 1950s, it probably is a Pershing, but the M-46 looks very similar. Neither had wheels like that, so those wheels apparently were some sort of mod.

Bill

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RE: OT-Little help tank guys.. - 11/28/2014 11:34:08 PM   
Jorge_Stanbury


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The movie is Chinese, thus most likely they put an old M-26 turret on some Chinese made available chasis (Type 59 tank?) so it looks realistic.

< Message edited by Jorge_Stanbury -- 11/29/2014 12:34:37 AM >

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RE: OT-Little help tank guys.. - 11/29/2014 1:12:55 AM   
geofflambert


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Just so we're all on the same page. The device on the turret is Nationalist Chinese. I'm talking about the thing painted on the side. If it is communist Chinese it's just been captured or it's been prepared for infiltration, in which case the crew could be executed upon capture.




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RE: OT-Little help tank guys.. - 11/29/2014 1:15:04 AM   
geofflambert


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The undercarriage wheels are strange. Perhaps they are Taiwanese manufactured replacement parts?

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RE: OT-Little help tank guys.. - 11/29/2014 1:27:03 AM   
geofflambert


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This may help us solve this. What is the yellow arrow pointing at? Is that some sort of lubricant distributing thing-a-ma-jig?




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RE: OT-Little help tank guys.. - 11/29/2014 1:45:40 AM   
Jorge_Stanbury


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quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

The undercarriage wheels are strange. Perhaps they are Taiwanese manufactured replacement parts?


No, this is a mainland Chinese movie; I doubt they asked their "rebelious province" friends for hardware

I bet it is not even a tanks underwheel; just something built for the movie using tractor parts

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RE: OT-Little help tank guys.. - 11/29/2014 2:07:46 AM   
geofflambert


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As usual, I didn't pay proper attention and thought this was something historical. A lot of US movies used anachronistically inappropriate tanks, ships and planes. Do not make me mention the film that shall not be mentioned.

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RE: OT-Little help tank guys.. - 11/29/2014 4:05:53 PM   
crsutton


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quote:

ORIGINAL: geofflambert

Just so we're all on the same page. The device on the turret is Nationalist Chinese. I'm talking about the thing painted on the side. If it is communist Chinese it's just been captured or it's been prepared for infiltration, in which case the crew could be executed upon capture.






Now wait a minute and lets put some thought behind this. This movie was made in the past few years. It is a "mainland" Chinese film, and from what I can tell all of the equipment in it is real and not CGI. (that is important). This is a Chinese made movie so this tank existed in this form just a few years ago, and is probably still around. But it is a tank used in a movie so don't put a lot of stock in the markings.

This particular scene in the movie depicts a famous battle in 47-48 during the Chinese Civil War, so obviously the use of the Pershing tank to represent a Nationalist force of this era is inaccurate. There are some other cool tanks in the movie as well. Any Patton tank found in China was probably from captured stock taken during the Korean War. So this has to be a Chinese or North Korean tank. And, this tank my very well have been in service (training or with an auxiliary defense force) for a very long time. It only makes sense that she was a tired old girl and the original running gear needed to be replaced-perhaps in the late 50s or 60s when China was still relatively poor and making do with what they had. The original running gear could have been destroyed in combat. I suspect that this is a local modification of a Pershing tank using bogey wheels and tracks of early post Korean War Chinese design. (read homemade) Cause they just don't fit anything that I have otherwise seen.

One thing for sure, it is a Pershing tank hull and turret and has been in possession of the Chinese for a very long time.

< Message edited by crsutton -- 11/29/2014 7:51:13 PM >


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RE: OT-Little help tank guys.. - 11/29/2014 4:37:05 PM   
geofflambert


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I believe the Soviets received one Pershing in a lend-lease shipment. Could be that one.

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