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Sweden hunting submarine - 10/17/2014 5:47:29 PM   
bradinggs


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News today of Sweden responding to some news of foreign underwater activity happening.

Here's one of the many articles going around:
Article today

Here's a document from the 90's discussing regular Russian submarines entering Swedish waters. An interesting read and also for any scenario writers. Soviet Submarine operations in Swedish waters
Post #: 1
RE: Sweden hunting submarine - 10/17/2014 5:49:02 PM   
CaptCarnage

 

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There is a Scenario om this.. "in the quiet waters"

(in reply to bradinggs)
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RE: Sweden hunting submarine - 10/17/2014 6:12:34 PM   
bradinggs


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Haven't done that one yet, adding to the list, thanks Skyhigh.

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Post #: 3
RE: Sweden hunting submarine - 10/17/2014 8:31:00 PM   
Pergite!

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Skyhigh

There is a Scenario om this.. "in the quiet waters"


That is a very fictional scenario.

If someone would do a scenario on actual events from the 80´s that would be great. Sweden is one of the few countries that have used live ordnance against sub surface threats during the cold war, not to mention getting own aircrafts downed by Russian fighters on two separate occasions. Then there is the actual events that inspired Clancy to write "The Hunt for the Red October". The Baltic sea is a rather small area but it holds a lot of potential for both historical and realistic "what-if" scenarios.



Confirmed Russian submarine in Swedish waters (and on Swedish rocks) to the left. Notice the characteristic silhouette of a JA-37 Viggen above.

More info on the current story:
http://www.thelocal.se/20141017/sweden-scrambles-against-foreign-activity-off-stockholm

< Message edited by Pergite! -- 10/17/2014 9:40:57 PM >

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Post #: 4
RE: Sweden hunting submarine - 10/18/2014 12:38:33 AM   
CassioM


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The situation involving the nosy soviet whiskey in 1981 is a very interesting theme for a scenario.

I have dozen ideas for submarine operations scenarios. I will study carefully this occasion and add it along my next projects.

Thanks for the photo and the link.

(in reply to Pergite!)
Post #: 5
RE: Sweden hunting submarine - 10/19/2014 9:21:21 AM   
Pergite!

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CassioM

The situation involving the nosy soviet whiskey in 1981 is a very interesting theme for a scenario.

I have dozen ideas for submarine operations scenarios. I will study carefully this occasion and add it along my next projects.

Thanks for the photo and the link.




http://www.aftonbladet.se/nyheter/article19717231.ab



< Message edited by Pergite! -- 10/19/2014 3:06:55 PM >

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Post #: 6
RE: Sweden hunting submarine - 10/19/2014 7:04:45 PM   
Randomizer


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In case you missed it here's a short AAR for Pergite's In the Calmest Waters Swim the Ugliest Fish scenario.

Calm Waters... AAR

-C

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Post #: 7
RE: Sweden hunting submarine - 10/19/2014 7:20:25 PM   
CaptCarnage

 

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http://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/mystery-deepens-over-reported-russian-sub-in-sweden/ar-BB9ZS2x

Apparently a Russian sub has gone missing.
The Swedish say they have received emergency signals on Friday but the Russians havent said much yet on the matter although they have increased naval activity themselves in the area.




< Message edited by Skyhigh -- 10/19/2014 8:22:57 PM >

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Post #: 8
RE: Sweden hunting submarine - 10/19/2014 8:30:24 PM   
bradinggs


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An image has appeared now http://www.businessinsider.com/r-sweden-says-credible-reports-of-foreign-submarine-in-its-waters-2014-10

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Post #: 9
RE: Sweden hunting submarine - 10/20/2014 12:44:26 AM   
Rudd

 

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quote:

... Anders Nordin from the Swedish Maritime Administration said a Russian-owned oil tanker, Concord, which had reportedly been circling near Swedish waters for days, started sailing in a northeasterly direction toward Russia on Sunday morning. But it suddenly turned around and headed back in the direction of Sweden, according to Marine Traffic, a website which monitors vessels in the Baltic Sea...

More info from http://mobile.navytimes.com/article/20141019/NEWS08/310190019

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Post #: 10
RE: Sweden hunting submarine - 10/20/2014 2:03:00 AM   
jtoatoktoe

 

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Maybe Sweden needs its own SOSUS type system.

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Post #: 11
RE: Sweden hunting submarine - 10/20/2014 4:45:17 AM   
DirtyFred


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Interesting story...

Maybe they were spooked by their own sub on exercise? Or maybe it is a PsyOp to justify more defense spending? A hoax to pressure Russia into concessions regarding Ukraine (sweden does as US-Neocons tell them to do)...

If it is a real russian spy mission, then there should be a mothership around, the libanese flagged oil tanker "NS Concord" or the russian science vessel "Professor Logachev"? Here is a civilian source photo of the sub in question:
http://img.welt.de/img/ausland/crop133453418/3360197471-ci3x2l-w780/title.jpg

Supposedly the Russian Navy installed a SOSUS-like network in the waters of Sweden and now this mini sub was sent to upgrade/dismantle the net.

Boooooo! The russians are coming ... Booooooo!

The submarine hunt is an early political test for Stefan Löfven, Sweden’s new prime minister, whose centre-left minority government took office this month. Peter Hultqvist, the defence minister, told Svenska Dagbladet that the government hoped to be more open than its predecessor about military activity.

“What’s been happening in the Baltic Sea, including airspace incursions, shows that we have a new, changed situation,” he said. “Russia has made enormous military investments … with their increased strength they are training more, and that influences the security environment.”

I think its the same bullshit as Rasmussen did since before 2003 - scare the crowd and make nice profits from selling weapons systems.



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Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.

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Post #: 12
RE: Sweden hunting submarine - 10/20/2014 5:20:31 AM   
DirtyFred


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ok now i know it is a PSY OP...

peace reasearch scientist https://wikispooks.com/wiki/Ola_Tunander did some good work on the secret war against sweden...

Quote:
Today, all evidence for Soviet intrusions appears to have been
manipulated, or simply invented. Classified documents point to covert US
and UK activity. Former US secretary of defense Caspar Weinberger stated
that Western submarines operated ‘regularly’ and ‘frequently’ in Swedish
waters in order to ‘test’ the Swedish coastal defences, and former British
navy minister Sir Keith Speed confirms the existence of such operations.
Royal Navy submarine captains admit having carried out top-secret
operations in Swedish waters, and that a member of Cabinet signed
approval for every single operation.
In a new book, The Secret War Against Sweden – US and British
Submarine Deception in the 1980s, published by Frank Cass (Naval Series),
I discuss these problems in detail. I have used a large amount of now
declassified or partly decla ssified documents from the submarine hunt as
well as hundreds of interviews with senior officers and local commanders as
well as interviews with officers and officials in various Western countries.
This article is based on material from this almost 400-page volume, which
also includes maps and excerpts from documents. The maps in this article
are derived from this book.

read here:
http://www.fredsakademiet.dk/library/tunander.pdf

The USA had the NR-1 a nuclear minisub, the smallest nuclear submarine ever put into operation. Today even smaller subs are possible for covert use by powerful nations.

Hope Sweden does'nt expend too much money and vessels on this wild goose chase ...

_____________________________

One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.

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Post #: 13
RE: Sweden hunting submarine - 10/20/2014 8:55:14 AM   
bradinggs


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History does like to repeat itself... could be.

After further search I see mention of the NS CONCORD came from Swedish navy, or so media says. I see it's heading to a Russian port now, Primorsk, not sure if it has been the same destination since Wednesday though, haven't checked.
Here's another link with some more history on the NS CONCORD https://glamcasvaluir.wordpress.com/tag/ns-concord/ along with tracking of some Dutch naval ships.

Tankers and seismic ships in that region aren't new though. Interesting watching this all unfold.






< Message edited by bradinggs -- 10/20/2014 10:12:43 AM >

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Post #: 14
RE: Sweden hunting submarine - 10/20/2014 9:29:34 AM   
bradinggs


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Just looking through the database, would be nice to have some seismic ships in there. I see offshore support (x2), tankers and oil platforms but no seismic commercial shipping.

(in reply to bradinggs)
Post #: 15
RE: Sweden hunting submarine - 10/20/2014 11:06:43 AM   
bradinggs


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Alleged reported US activity to the north a couple months ago. http://news.usni.org/2014/08/11/u-s-denies-attack-submarine-expelled-barents-sea

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Post #: 16
RE: Sweden hunting submarine - 10/20/2014 11:31:48 AM   
DirtyFred


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New twist on mystery sub at stockholm:

its a dutch sub! Cheeeeers!

sweden and the netherlands had a maritime exercise where one task was "to find" the dutch sub - it is a walrus class vessel name "Bruinvis"

http://rt.com/news/197412-sweden-sub-dutch-russia/

this halved my strategic popcorn reserves - oh man what a joke

dunno if bruinwis is AIP fitted but from the size and sub sail silouette on the civvi photo it could be the dutch sub...

how much does a sub hunt like this in coastal waters amount to?

edit:
the dutch sub did not send distress signals and is in Talinn, Estland
http://nos.nl/artikel/711699-gezochte-duikboot-niet-nederlands.html

< Message edited by DirtyFred -- 10/20/2014 12:37:51 PM >


_____________________________

One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.

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Post #: 17
To pass the time for those interested - 10/20/2014 11:55:41 AM   
DirtyFred


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worth reading

enjoy

Quote:

On 1 October 1982, after four years as chief of division at the Swedish
Defence Staff, I entered my new position as Chief of Stockholm
Coastal Defence. I took over responsibility for an ongoing wartime
forces exercise with 4,000 men in the archipelago, including Special
Forces, patrol vessels, mine troops and artillery forces. My first
meeting with my new staff was interrupted by a report of a submarine
periscope deep inside the archipelago at Muskö naval base. I cancelled
the meeting and contacted the regional commander. An intensive
anti-submarine operation began, which went on for two weeks.
This incident influenced Swedish coastal defence activities for the rest
of the 1980s.
We had been anticipating Soviet submarines in connection with an
impressive US naval visit to Stockholm in the last days of September
1982. On earlier occasions, Soviet or Warsaw Pact submarines had followed
our Western visitors below the surface, also in our territory. We
believed the Coastal Defence exercise and our presence in the archipelago
would give us an advantage in our battle with intruding submarines.
After a few days of submarine hunting, we were authorized to use
our heavy mines against the intruder as long as no civilians were in
danger. We detonated mines on 7 and 11 October, in both cases just
after clear indications of a passing submarine. The order was not to
sink but to stop (or damage) the submarine and force it to the surface.
After the 11 October detonation, we received indications of repair
works on a damaged submarine. Two days later, we had indications of
a submarine once again approaching the mine barrage, but despite full
control of the surface, the Commander-in-Chief ordered a ceasefire.
Two hours after the submarine had passed the mine barrage we were
once again authorized to use force.
As Chief of Stockholm Coastal Defence, I mobilized considerable
resources in an attempt to force a submarine to the surface. My task
was to rebuff any intruder within my area of responsibility; the nation
ality of the intruding submarines was not my concern. However, like
the Submarine Defence Commission, I was convinced that the submarines
originated from the Warsaw Pact. Ola Tunander’s research
has provided a new basis for settling the question of the intruder’s
nationality. This is particularly evident for the above incident at the
mine barrages in October 1982. Tunander presents a credible account
for the course of events: a Western submarine was released during a
five-hour ceasefire. Tunander’s research, presented in this book, is
groundbreaking and should lead to a re-evaluation of the conclusions
from earlier analyses.
Brigadier-General Lars Hansson
Former Chief of Stockholm Coastal Defence
June 2003

password is my handle

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.

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Post #: 18
RE: Sweden hunting submarine - 10/20/2014 12:00:18 PM   
bradinggs


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Exercise Northern Archer:

https://twitter.com/hdevreij/status/516690294558183424

"Vessels involved comprise two frigates, an ocean-going patrol vessel, a diesel-electric submarine and a combat support ship"

Flight information service from Tac Air Command
http://www.flv.dk/milais/MIL%20AIP%20SUP/04-14%20Northern%20Archer.pdf

20 October does seem a little way after the exercise began though? If this is an exercise, why did they let it reach a stage where communication with Russia had to be made? Strange. They did say an unnamed Russian official though. I'm always skeptical about media, they generally don't get the facts right.

Adding to speculation, there could always be a nation monitoring, much like China did recently for recent naval exercises for SIGINT etc.

Oh well... at least it provided some good material for a scenario later

(in reply to DirtyFred)
Post #: 19
RE: Sweden hunting submarine - 10/20/2014 12:06:16 PM   
bradinggs


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Looking forward to giving it a read, thanks DirtyFred.

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Post #: 20
RE: Sweden hunting submarine - 10/20/2014 12:52:21 PM   
ckfinite

 

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It should be noted that RT is rather unreliable whenever it comes to anything even remotely involving Russia. I prefer to wait until some other non-Russian source agrees with them from independent sourcing.

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Post #: 21
RE: Sweden hunting submarine - 10/20/2014 1:06:52 PM   
76mm


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ckfinite
It should be noted that RT is rather unreliable whenever it comes to anything even remotely involving Russia.


er, yes, you're quite the diplomat--RT is wholly unreliable.

DirtyFred, thanks for all the fascinating reading about events from thirty years ago. Maybe you can also provide some links to Napoleonic submarine activity? Because it's about as relevant to what is going on right now...

(in reply to ckfinite)
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RE: Sweden hunting submarine - 10/20/2014 2:09:50 PM   
DirtyFred


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quote:

ORIGINAL: 76mm

quote:

ORIGINAL: ckfinite
It should be noted that RT is rather unreliable whenever it comes to anything even remotely involving Russia.


er, yes, you're quite the diplomat--RT is wholly unreliable.

DirtyFred, thanks for all the fascinating reading about events from thirty years ago. Maybe you can also provide some links to Napoleonic submarine activity? Because it's about as relevant to what is going on right now...


some of the events in the 80ies or even the 50ies and 60ies in Sweden coincide with events today - or should i say - history repeats itself

of one fact im fairly sure - it wasnt a russian sub or vessel - if its not a joke by someone it could be a US-Navy Seal or italian navy special forces or uk royal navy sas/sbs vessel on training exercise in swedish waters, german subs are all in port ...

NATO and US naval forces train in this manner to train themself to insert operatives onshore via SDVs or ASDSs - maybe it is a prototype minisub like the NR-1 (nuclear minisub and crawled on bottom left two track marks)

RT is the same as CNN .. part propaganda and part (mis)information

any pro subber would not make the mistake surfacing in daylight and near the shore so what is this? and sweden was traumatized by the sub incursions of the 80ies - so why do this op now? today sweden is very pro-US so why rattle their cage?

btw read the book (attachment1). even most swedish citizens dont know they were psyopped in the 80ies

_____________________________

One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.

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RE: Sweden hunting submarine - 10/20/2014 2:13:23 PM   
DirtyFred


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Joined: 5/22/2014
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quote:

ORIGINAL: bradinggs

Looking forward to giving it a read, thanks DirtyFred.


youre welcome :)



_____________________________

One equal temper of heroic hearts,
Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will
To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.

(in reply to bradinggs)
Post #: 24
RE: Sweden hunting submarine - 10/20/2014 2:43:47 PM   
Tomcat84

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DirtyFred


of one fact im fairly sure - it wasnt a russian sub or vessel -



because ?

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Post #: 25
RE: Sweden hunting submarine - 10/20/2014 2:45:10 PM   
76mm


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DirtyFred
of one fact im fairly sure - it wasnt a russian sub or vessel

Don't see why you're so sure? You might be right, but I am willing to wait for some facts before I make up my mind.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DirtyFred
and sweden was traumatized by the sub incursions of the 80ies - so why do this op now? today sweden is very pro-US so why rattle their cage?

Because maybe, just maybe, the US has nothing to do with this?

quote:

ORIGINAL: DirtyFred
RT is the same as CNN .. part propaganda and part (mis)information

I'm no real fan of CNN but RT is in a totally different league.

(in reply to DirtyFred)
Post #: 26
RE: Sweden hunting submarine - 10/20/2014 3:48:05 PM   
AlmightyTallest

 

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Trying to piece what's actually happening and I found this:

http://twitter.com/rConflictNews/status/523817861438242816/photo/1

quote:

RU survey vessel 'Professor Logachev' appears to be sailing towards the area where a sub is allegedly in distress.


Then later on: http://twitter.com/rConflictNews/status/523819534684532737/photo/1

quote:

The Professor Logachev is being directly shadowed by the Dutch Navy vessel HNLMS Zeeland


http://www.inquisitr.com/1550664/russian-submarine-found-in-sweden-russia-linked-to-photo-of-foreign-vessel/

quote:

Other developments also took place on Sunday, with the presence of Russian-owned, Liberian-flagged oil tanker NS Concord being connected in the local media with the potential Russian submarine. The tanker was seen criss-crossing the seas off Sweden, which seemed odd to reporters, but Anders Nordin at the Swedish Coastguard claims these movement were normal for a tanker. Reports also note that a Russian research vessel, the Professor Logachev, is heading toward Sweden, and it is equipped for underwater search operations.
Read more at http://www.inquisitr.com/1550664/russian-submarine-found-in-sweden-russia-linked-to-photo-of-foreign-vessel/#6lUIzA6XdAllbPYt.99


My guess is a Russian submarine in some distress, or it simply got caught in the act.



< Message edited by AlmightyTallest -- 10/20/2014 4:57:47 PM >

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Post #: 27
RE: Sweden hunting submarine - 10/20/2014 3:56:20 PM   
bradinggs


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I've searched back though and seen that the Professor Logachev vessel has been used for various seismic research for UK and other nations. In a light search I couldn't find any recent universities or governments using it at the moment.

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Post #: 28
RE: Sweden hunting submarine - 10/20/2014 4:00:24 PM   
AlmightyTallest

 

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This all reminded me of this song from the 80's

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x20zau_thomas-dolby-one-of-our-submarines_music

(in reply to bradinggs)
Post #: 29
RE: Sweden hunting submarine - 10/20/2014 6:08:25 PM   
bradinggs


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Expanding the search to outer islands and southwards.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-29686756?ns_mchannel=social&ns_campaign=bbc_breaking&ns_source=twitter&ns_linkname=news_central

Dutch sub possibility being dismissed by navy.

A brief analysis of the NS Concord and the Professor on a tracking site.
http://www.fleetmon.com/newsroom/2014/5213/mystery-russian-submarine-swedish-waters-and-scf-t/

Currently I can't find NS Concord, appears either out of signal range or AIS is off again.

Amazed that NS Concord is already on Wikipedia claiming it's part of the sub hunt... before all the facts are out.



< Message edited by bradinggs -- 10/20/2014 7:27:55 PM >

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