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A-10 Warthogs vs. ISIS

 
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A-10 Warthogs vs. ISIS - 10/7/2014 11:19:32 PM   
Gil R.


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I've been wondering whether A-10 Warthogs would be used in Iraq/Syria, since to me -- someone with no military background -- it seems that they are an incredibly obvious weapon to use there. A Google search tonight revealed that a dozen have been deployed in the past week or so, but in reading about our "airstrikes" in the past day or two at Kobani I see no reference to them, and the reports of large explosions suggest to me strikes by jets. Does anyone know 1) how long it takes a squadron of A-10's that are sent from Indiana to the Middle East to become operational, 2) whether any have been used yet, and 3) how effective they can be if there are no U.S. forces on the ground working with them, but just Kurds and other allied or semi-allied forces.

Please keep this discussion purely tactical -- no need to get into a political debate that gets the thread locked.
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RE: A-10 Warthogs vs. ISIS - 10/7/2014 11:31:17 PM   
Twotribes


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The ISIS has sophisticated anti air assets. The A-10 may be unable to survive the environment.

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RE: A-10 Warthogs vs. ISIS - 10/8/2014 12:00:45 AM   
Walloc

 

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A-10 isnt just A-10s. They come in 2 general version and the A-10A and A-10C with the distinct difference in that the C is capable of dropping smart bombs.
U can use guide weapons as mavericks on the A-10A but not the precision guided actual bombs u would need the A-10C, as i understand it.

Lets assume its A-10C that has been send there.
This makes a difference as Twotribes referes too as IS has taken over a fair number of Man-Pads/ SA-7s.Potentially even more advanced missle systems has been takne over in Syrian base conquests and in the Iraqui army fleeing. Question would be if they had any1 to operate such if they indeed has gotten their hands on such. They clearly using tanks and artillery systems taken from Mosul bases. So while IS now operates tanks and other vehicles and one could think the gun of the A-10 would be perfect for that. The threat of Man-Pad presuambly makes the USAF unwilling to operate below 10k Feet in any large degree.
So if u have to bomb from up high and using precisions bombs well the A-10 isnt necesarrily a choice weapon and u would presumably have to use A-10Cs exclusively.

Not only that i suspect its quite on purpose that IS is for example attacking into Kobani. U get in close to ur opponents and civilians. Which making bombing all teh harder when u wana avoid for those reasons we cant discuss aka friendly fire and collleral damage. Using dumb bombs in this scenario is presumably unthinkble.
Even using smart bombs in those curcumstances would be near impossible. Depending on whether u actually have spotters presuabanly special forces to paint targets. This presumably leaves u attacking targets out side the actual city. Artillery positions, "supply", "units "moving in and out and so on.

Even in the no city situasion u generally through the lack of troops on the ground will have idenfication problems. Making sure you are bombing IS, not its a random vehicles in the desert. Again for teh reason we cant discuss u presumably dont have much in leeway of getting it wrong.
One can ofc speculate in whether US special forces are being used as spotters. Embeded to some degree with kurds, and possibly Iraqi army unit. In teh case of Iraqui army units u might not that i know or not have actual FO/ALOs in support of those.
Or if u rely exclusively on planes and drones for identification purposes.

So in short if u assume that the premise is that you are "forced" to bomb/ from higher altitudes and useing more or less exclusivly precisions bombs and guided weapons for tanks busting and the like, A-10s isnt necesarrily the best choice.


Rasmus

< Message edited by Walloc -- 10/8/2014 1:22:44 AM >

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RE: A-10 Warthogs vs. ISIS - 10/8/2014 8:16:40 AM   
Josh

 

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While the A-10 is an amazing warplane, the biggest fear is seeing downed ad captured pilots dressed in orange dresses. So that may be one of the reasons we don't see them much. Same with Apaches.

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RE: A-10 Warthogs vs. ISIS - 10/8/2014 7:22:11 PM   
Capt. Harlock


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quote:

3) how effective they can be if there are no U.S. forces on the ground working with them, but just Kurds and other allied or semi-allied forces.


If you mean if there are no U.S. ground crews, then clearly the answer is they cannot be effective. This pretty much rules out using them in Syria. If you mean, as I imagine you do, that you will need Kurds or other locals to call in targeting information, then my guess is that A-10's could work fairly well, especially if we could fly drones over the area to confirm the reports from the ground.

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RE: A-10 Warthogs vs. ISIS - 10/9/2014 6:13:35 AM   
Gil R.


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Thanks for the interesting responses.

The A-10 is partly famous for its armor -- but ISIS has missiles that would make that ineffective?

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RE: A-10 Warthogs vs. ISIS - 10/9/2014 6:21:52 AM   
Rising-Sun


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I am pretty sure they have plenty of shoulder launch anti-air missiles and some ground AAA defense.

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RE: A-10 Warthogs vs. ISIS - 10/9/2014 2:49:43 PM   
Josh

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RisingSun

I am pretty sure they have plenty of shoulder launch anti-air missiles and some ground AAA defense.


Yes they have aquired a staggering amount of equipment. My mouth fell wide open a couple of times, where the $@%# did they get that stuff from? Yes I know the answer, but it's still very frustrating.

(in reply to Rising-Sun)
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RE: A-10 Warthogs vs. ISIS - 10/9/2014 3:08:49 PM   
Rising-Sun


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Josh


quote:

ORIGINAL: RisingSun

I am pretty sure they have plenty of shoulder launch anti-air missiles and some ground AAA defense.


Yes they have aquired a staggering amount of equipment. My mouth fell wide open a couple of times, where the $@%# did they get that stuff from? Yes I know the answer, but it's still very frustrating.


Some of it was bought from warlords who sell arms, and warlords get them from Russia. Infact some gotten from raids as well.

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RE: A-10 Warthogs vs. ISIS - 10/9/2014 7:19:06 PM   
Capt. Harlock


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quote:

I am pretty sure they have plenty of shoulder launch anti-air missiles and some ground AAA defense.


Which probably why the F-22 was flown in a combat mission for the first time ever against ISIS. It's our stealthiest fighter (the F-35 is a ways from being operational as yet). However, once sufficient damage has been done to the anti-aircraft equipment in ISIS hands, things like A-10's and Apache helicopters should have a role to play.

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Civil war? What does that mean? Is there any foreign war? Isn't every war fought between men, between brothers?

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RE: A-10 Warthogs vs. ISIS - 10/9/2014 8:43:00 PM   
Hertston


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A risk/reward thing, I guess. The ISIS targets likely to be reliably identified by the locals can safely be taken out from higher up, and unlike the massed Warsaw Pact armour scenario both A-10 and Apache were really designed for there's not a lot they can seek out themselves. The AA threat is relatively low, but more than sufficient to justify staying on the ground unless there is a reasonable chance of a successful strike on a significant target. 'Survivability' may be absolute, but acceptable levels are relative and here the orange jumpsuit scenario must be a major, major concern, as Josh says.

< Message edited by Hertston -- 10/9/2014 9:45:36 PM >

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RE: A-10 Warthogs vs. ISIS - 10/10/2014 6:53:58 AM   
Rising-Sun


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Well they can do it at night with low noise if possible, but not easy to see at night even with night vision. If the satellite pick up something earlier and the targets still there can use that as GPS with guided bombs or missiles. That would be the easiest way to do it. Taken out buildings is no problems, mobile targets is.

< Message edited by RisingSun -- 10/10/2014 7:55:51 AM >


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RE: A-10 Warthogs vs. ISIS - 10/25/2014 10:48:49 AM   
Chijohnaok2


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gil R.

Thanks for the interesting responses.

The A-10 is partly famous for its armor -- but ISIS has missiles that would make that ineffective?


The pilot is protected by armor in the cockpit---in an essentially iron tub. That protects the pilot from bullets and shrapnel.
That armor does nothing about protecting the plane from a missile strike. A manpad launched missile hits the plane, and even if the pilot survives the initial strike, his plane is probably going down. In this situation, (no US ground forces) rescue is not going to be easy.


< Message edited by chijohnaok -- 10/25/2014 2:43:04 PM >


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RE: A-10 Warthogs vs. ISIS - 10/25/2014 11:57:34 AM   
Rising-Sun


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I agreed, rescue over enemy lines wont be easy. If those pilots have no survival skills based on terrains and weathers, then good chance wont make it.

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RE: A-10 Warthogs vs. ISIS - 10/26/2014 3:53:16 AM   
2ndACR


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Try a titanium tub instead of a iron tub.......that is what the A10 pilot sits inside.

The A10 would work, god knows it was designed to operate over Europe during a WW3 style war. It flew over Iraq, even sustained massive damage and brought the pilot home in Desert Storm IIRC.


(in reply to Rising-Sun)
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