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RE: Has Earth reached a Population Tipping Point?

 
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RE: Has Earth reached a Population Tipping Point? - 10/10/2014 2:49:30 PM   
Mobius


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quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin
Mother nature will find away to cut us down eventually. I think the Sun each year provides enough energy for a pop of 2 billion I believe.
It provides a lot more. But getting it is a problem. In 2012 the USA generated 4,047.7 TWh of energy. That would require solar panels about the area of Vermont. Not just taking that land area out of production but the mining of all the rare earth elements for panels that size would be an impossible undertaking. The USA has the American desert so land there isn't used for faming. Europe would have a hard time coming up with land it can spare for solar panels.


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RE: Has Earth reached a Population Tipping Point? - 10/10/2014 2:55:38 PM   
Chijohnaok2


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Max 86

With the spread of Ebola and the Enterovirus here in the US and with Ebola expected in the UK and France in about a month I was wondering if our planet has reached a population tipping point to where Mother Nature steps in and delivers a rather brutal 'population readjustment' with plagues and the likes.

http://news.yahoo.com/high-risk-ebola-could-reach-france-uk-end-113015476.html

As one doctor said, any person can get on a plane and be anywhere else in the world in 24 hrs and that levels the playing field, biologically speaking.

I would like to think we are better prepared to handle a virus versus the black plague back in the day but how well is your area prepared? Are any of us really ready for such an event? Are any of us more prepared that the native Americans were for small pox?

Thoughts anyone?


quote:

I was wondering if our planet has reached a population tipping point to where Mother Nature steps in and delivers a rather brutal 'population readjustment' with plagues and the likes.


People have been predicting this for decades.

Have you ever heard of Paul R. Ehrlich?
In 1968 he wrote the book "The Population Bomb".

Among other things, he predicted:
---The battle to feed all of humanity is over. In the 1970s hundreds of millions of people will starve to death in spite of any crash programs embarked upon now. At this late date nothing can prevent a substantial increase in the world death rate ..
---"I don't see how India could possibly feed two hundred million more people by 1980."[5] This view was widely held at the time, as another statement of his, later in the book: "I have yet to meet anyone familiar with the situation who thinks that India will be self-sufficient in food by 1971."
---“By 1985 enough millions will have died to reduce the earth’s population to some acceptable level, like 1.5 billion people.”
---in a 1969 article, “Eco-Catastrophe!”, he predicted that by the end of the century the population of the US would be under 20 million, and our life expectancy would be around 40 years. A similar prediction of his was that 65 million Americans would die of starvation between 1980-1989 and that by 1999, the US population would decline to 22.6 million.
--- In 1975′s The End of Affluence, Ehrlich predicted cataclysmic food riots in America, leading the President to declare martial law.
---He predicted that by the 1980s most of the world’s important resources would be depleted.

It's now 2014. Hundreds of millions did not die due to famine. India now has over 1.2 billion and is food self sufficient. The world's population did not drop to 1.5 billion. 65 million Americans did not die due to starvation in the 1980s. US life expectancy is now almost 79 years. US population is more than 300 million. There were no cataclysmic food riots in the US leading to a declaration of martial law. And there are still plenty of natural resources around.

Ehrlich is not the only "doom and gloom" prognosticator who has been proven wrong by the passage of time.


< Message edited by chijohnaok -- 10/10/2014 3:58:48 PM >


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RE: Has Earth reached a Population Tipping Point? - 10/10/2014 3:01:00 PM   
t001001001

 

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If Mother Earth is trying to kill us we should try to deorbit her. I don't know how much an explosion it would take to send her spiraling toward the sun, but the effort must be made.

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RE: Has Earth reached a Population Tipping Point? - 10/10/2014 4:12:13 PM   
Zap


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mobius

quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin
Mother nature will find away to cut us down eventually. I think the Sun each year provides enough energy for a pop of 2 billion I believe.
It provides a lot more. But getting it is a problem. In 2012 the USA generated 4,047.7 TWh of energy. That would require solar panels about the area of Vermont. Not just taking that land area out of production but the mining of all the rare earth elements for panels that size would be an impossible undertaking. The USA has the American desert so land there isn't used for faming. Europe would have a hard time coming up with land it can spare for solar panels.



Solar panels and Wind power. How interesting are these!. Environmentalists HAVE BEEN TOUTING THESE as the new way. But these methods have created other environmental results not foreseen. Solar Panels reflect back into the sky(mirror effect) burning to death a significant number of birds. Modern windmills are killing many bats with the rotation of propellers. How many, programs I've watched, in the last ten years have said how important birds and bats are to the well-being of the planet. And here you have the potential (many say will save the planet) of solar power being responsible of wiping out an endangered bird species. But I'm sure, environmental aficionados will be able to rationalize all this and more. To keep the golden calf they idolize on its pedestal!

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RE: Has Earth reached a Population Tipping Point? - 10/10/2014 5:53:56 PM   
Chijohnaok2


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zap


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mobius

quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin
Mother nature will find away to cut us down eventually. I think the Sun each year provides enough energy for a pop of 2 billion I believe.
It provides a lot more. But getting it is a problem. In 2012 the USA generated 4,047.7 TWh of energy. That would require solar panels about the area of Vermont. Not just taking that land area out of production but the mining of all the rare earth elements for panels that size would be an impossible undertaking. The USA has the American desert so land there isn't used for faming. Europe would have a hard time coming up with land it can spare for solar panels.



Solar panels and Wind power. How interesting are these!. Environmentalists HAVE BEEN TOUTING THESE as the new way. But these methods have created other environmental results not foreseen. Solar Panels reflect back into the sky(mirror effect) burning to death a significant number of birds. Modern windmills are killing many bats with the rotation of propellers. How many, programs I've watched, in the last ten years have said how important birds and bats are to the well-being of the planet. And here you have the potential (many say will save the planet) of solar power being responsible of wiping out an endangered bird species. But I'm sure, environmental aficionados will be able to rationalize all this and more. To keep the golden calf they idolize on its pedestal!


Additionally, there is the issue of storage.
Yes, solar and wind can provide a lot of energy, but these sources do not provide a constant/steady stream of energy.
The length of day varies by season and by position of latitude, which affect the amount of electricity produced.
The wind does not always blow at a constant optimal speed. You have to implement ways of storing the energy generated by wind and solar for those times where the implements are not providing sufficient energy. The primary method for energy storage today (for individual circumstances) is batteries--but the use of batteries generates its own environmental concerns. Other methods of storage include the pumping of water to higher levels and then draining that stored water over watermill-type devices. This is also not necessarily practical for use in dry regions or during droughts (See California).

Currently power utilities that utilize wind and solar as a significant source of electricity have to have backup generating plants at the ready to provide power during low generation periods.

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RE: Has Earth reached a Population Tipping Point? - 10/10/2014 6:52:42 PM   
Mobius


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zap
Solar panels and Wind power. How interesting are these!. Environmentalists HAVE BEEN TOUTING THESE as the new way. But these methods have created other environmental results not foreseen. Solar Panels reflect back into the sky(mirror effect) burning to death a significant number of birds. Modern windmills are killing many bats with the rotation of propellers. How many, programs I've watched, in the last ten years have said how important birds and bats are to the well-being of the planet. And here you have the potential (many say will save the planet) of solar power being responsible of wiping out an endangered bird species.
If I had to make a choice I'd take birds and bats over polar bears any day of the week.

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RE: Has Earth reached a Population Tipping Point? - 10/10/2014 6:52:48 PM   
Zap


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Geo-thermal would be good. A constant source from the ground. We just have to move all cities to the zones where it can be found. No thermal power near Chicago! Lol

< Message edited by Zap -- 10/10/2014 7:57:43 PM >


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RE: Has Earth reached a Population Tipping Point? - 10/10/2014 7:04:22 PM   
Chijohnaok2


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zap

Geo-thermal would be good. A constant source from the ground. We just have to move all cities to the zones where it can be found. No thermal power near Chicago! Lol


There is alot of hot air in Chicago but that has more to do with politicians than it does with underground volcanic activity.


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RE: Has Earth reached a Population Tipping Point? - 10/13/2014 6:50:50 PM   
Jeffrey H.


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Latest news on the nurse who treated the first Dallas victim is telling. The virus is able to get around even very cautious protections. The useless hack CDC director blames the victim. Sick.


< Message edited by Jeffrey H. -- 10/13/2014 7:51:52 PM >


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RE: Has Earth reached a Population Tipping Point? - 10/13/2014 10:29:55 PM   
Zap


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Zap

Considering the seriousness of Ebola and I include terrorist threats to need the same action. The US , if it had b#$%s and a sense of protecting its people would stop all incoming flights from the countries of origin.



my previous post has relevance in the face of the development

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RE: Has Earth reached a Population Tipping Point? - 10/13/2014 10:44:39 PM   
Alchenar

 

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Literally every day more people die of malaria just in Nigeria than have died total in this Ebola outbreak.

Ebola is nasty and the current outbreak is sad, but in the grand scheme of things it's nothing at all to be concerned about. There's only a media fuss about it because when a Westerner gets malaria they get a course of cheap pills and recover, but when they get Ebola there's no cure.

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RE: Has Earth reached a Population Tipping Point? - 10/14/2014 7:22:39 PM   
Capt. Harlock


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quote:

Literally every day more people die of malaria just in Nigeria than have died total in this Ebola outbreak.


I believe you're thinking of the global total for malaria, not just in Nigeria. Multiply the current outbreak toll (about 4,000) by the number of days in a year.

Something else to consider is that the death toll from this Ebola outbreak is very likely under-counted at this point. Many of the victims are in remote areas, and some families who don't want to be shunned or quarantined are probably secretly burying bodies.

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RE: Has Earth reached a Population Tipping Point? - 10/15/2014 12:48:25 AM   
bairdlander


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WHO says within 2 months 10,000 people a week will contract the Ebola virus.

< Message edited by bairdlander -- 10/15/2014 1:49:14 AM >

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RE: Has Earth reached a Population Tipping Point? - 10/15/2014 1:43:39 PM   
Max 86


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and another hospital worker in Dallas has tested positive.

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RE: Has Earth reached a Population Tipping Point? - 10/16/2014 6:41:02 PM   
Jeffrey H.


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And the 3rd person, (the second health care worker infected) had recently treated an ebola patient, started running a fever and did what ? GOT ON A PLANE FULL OF PEOPLE ! BRILLIANT !

I'm shaking my head in disbelief. Honestly it's beginning to look like some strange script from a movie. Has it all been intentional to this point ?



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RE: Has Earth reached a Population Tipping Point? - 10/16/2014 6:44:01 PM   
warspite1


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffrey H.

And the 3rd person, (the second health care worker infected) had recently treated an ebola patient, started running a fever and did what ? GOT ON A PLANE FULL OF PEOPLE ! BRILLIANT !

I'm shaking my head in disbelief. Honestly it's beginning to look like some strange script from a movie. Has it all been intentional to this point ?


warspite1

Is that right? Wow, I mean...wow. Isn't that attempted murder?

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RE: Has Earth reached a Population Tipping Point? - 10/16/2014 6:47:49 PM   
Orm


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It all is more or less as expected. People do not behave rationally under such circumstances.

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RE: Has Earth reached a Population Tipping Point? - 10/16/2014 6:49:37 PM   
Jeffrey H.


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quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffrey H.

And the 3rd person, (the second health care worker infected) had recently treated an ebola patient, started running a fever and did what ? GOT ON A PLANE FULL OF PEOPLE ! BRILLIANT !

I'm shaking my head in disbelief. Honestly it's beginning to look like some strange script from a movie. Has it all been intentional to this point ?


warspite1

Is that right? Wow, I mean...wow. Isn't that attempted murder?



It is true, and it gets worse. I have heard that this person called into a health authority before boarding the plane and was advised that it was ok to go on.

It's all just spot on topic really, has it happened ? Is there a group of people behind the scenes guiding the herd into this ? How else could all of this be explained ?

It really is a struggle to now believe that it's anything but intentional. Either that or it's exacly on topic, we have reached it, (the tipping point) and we are now going to fall right into a horrible time of epidemic.




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RE: Has Earth reached a Population Tipping Point? - 10/18/2014 6:21:14 PM   
flanyboy

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffrey H.

Latest news on the nurse who treated the first Dallas victim is telling. The virus is able to get around even very cautious protections. The useless hack CDC director blames the victim. Sick.



To be fair it sounds like no one really knew what protocols to follow when treating him, CDC blamed the nurse the nurses union came out and said they were not told how to handle the patient and were given very poor recommendations for protective gear... in all likely-hood its a comedy of errors not a new form of Ebola.

What I don't understand is why the hospital in Atlanta that has the proper facilities to deal with infectious disease which the Dallas hospital does not has not become the hub where all Ebola patients in the US are sent, why have 3 or 4 different places some without sufficient training and equipment, that makes no sense. Also if it gets out it limits your geographical impact and is more easily isolated.

Regarding the fever and the flight, the nurse acted rationally and reported it the CDC told her it was fine because he fever was not deemed high enough to be considered Ebola or a risk for Ebola, they are now considering lowering the threshold but its not like protocol was violated rather perhaps just poor protocol.

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RE: Has Earth reached a Population Tipping Point? - 10/19/2014 12:37:15 AM   
rhondabrwn


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quote:

ORIGINAL: flanyboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffrey H.

Latest news on the nurse who treated the first Dallas victim is telling. The virus is able to get around even very cautious protections. The useless hack CDC director blames the victim. Sick.



To be fair it sounds like no one really knew what protocols to follow when treating him, CDC blamed the nurse the nurses union came out and said they were not told how to handle the patient and were given very poor recommendations for protective gear... in all likely-hood its a comedy of errors not a new form of Ebola.

What I don't understand is why the hospital in Atlanta that has the proper facilities to deal with infectious disease which the Dallas hospital does not has not become the hub where all Ebola patients in the US are sent, why have 3 or 4 different places some without sufficient training and equipment, that makes no sense. Also if it gets out it limits your geographical impact and is more easily isolated.

Regarding the fever and the flight, the nurse acted rationally and reported it the CDC told her it was fine because he fever was not deemed high enough to be considered Ebola or a risk for Ebola, they are now considering lowering the threshold but its not like protocol was violated rather perhaps just poor protocol.


This is worth watching, best explanation of Ebola and how it works and spreads that I have seen. At the end it touches on the points you made about how the first case was handled in Texas. It's Maddow and I know some of you can't stand her, but this is totally non-political and very well done.

Better to Know

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RE: Has Earth reached a Population Tipping Point? - 10/19/2014 2:29:08 PM   
Jamm


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Nobody panic




Attachment (1)

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RE: Has Earth reached a Population Tipping Point? - 10/22/2014 6:32:20 PM   
Jeffrey H.


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Well, my company has created a travel ban on a few West African countries, (Nigeria excluded). Now the CDC has created a "travel ban light". I have yet to hear any specifics of the strain of Ebola but I have heard a "Ebola 2014" label being talked about. The media in the US has cooled off on the story, some news of passengers from West Africa being sick on planes and getting pulled aside for monitoring.

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RE: Has Earth reached a Population Tipping Point? - 10/22/2014 7:15:14 PM   
gradenko_2000_slith

 

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http://www.vox.com/2014/10/18/6994413/research-travel-bans-ebola-virus-outbreak

Travel bans have am arguably negative, at the minimum neutral, effect on stopping outbreaks because it makes it more difficult to track down an infected person and people they had contact with because they're not going to be listed as coming from an area with a travel ban (because how could they?), while at the same time making it more difficult to ship in aid to the area if the ban is being legally followed.

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RE: Has Earth reached a Population Tipping Point? - 10/24/2014 2:41:38 AM   
Jeffrey H.


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And here we go again. Now it's in New Yawk City.

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RE: Has Earth reached a Population Tipping Point? - 10/24/2014 2:42:58 AM   
Jeffrey H.


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The media are in full blitz mode now after all its hitting home for them.

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RE: Has Earth reached a Population Tipping Point? - 10/24/2014 2:46:59 AM   
parusski


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jamm

Nobody panic





LOL, just what the government is now doing.

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RE: Has Earth reached a Population Tipping Point? - 10/27/2014 2:49:50 AM   
rhondabrwn


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Well, I can guarantee that no one flying into New York or New Jersey is going to admit that they were working with Ebola patients, if they even admit to having been in East Africa. Others will route themselves through Europe and cover their tracks completely.

This isn't the way to keep things under control.

But hey, let PANIC RULE! It's good politics.

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RE: Has Earth reached a Population Tipping Point? - 10/27/2014 2:54:00 AM   
gradenko_2000_slith

 

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quote:

Well, I can guarantee that no one flying into New York or New Jersey is going to admit that they were working with Ebola patients, if they even admit to having been in East Africa. Others will route themselves through Europe and cover their tracks completely.


Agreed. That's precisely why travel bans don't work.

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RE: Has Earth reached a Population Tipping Point? - 10/27/2014 11:53:22 AM   
Orm


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bump

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RE: Has Earth reached a Population Tipping Point? - 10/27/2014 4:07:22 PM   
Chijohnaok2


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quote:


http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/27/nyregion/ebola-quarantine.html?_r=0

Under Pressure, Cuomo Says Ebola Quarantines Can Be Spent at Home

Facing fierce resistance from the White House and medical experts to a strict new mandatory quarantine policy, Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo said on Sunday night that medical workers who had contact with Ebola patients in West Africa but did not show symptoms of the disease would be allowed to remain at home and would receive compensation for lost income.

Mr. Cuomo’s decision capped a frenzied weekend of behind-the-scenes pleas from administration officials, who urged him and Gov. Chris Christie of New Jersey to reconsider the mandatory quarantine they had announced on Friday. Aides to President Obama also asked other governors and mayors to follow a policy based on science, seeking to stem a steady movement toward more stringent measures in recent days at the state level.



AND

quote:


http://www.cbsnews.com/news/ebola-outbreak-u-s-soldiers-returning-from-liberia-placed-in-isolation-in-italy/

U.S. soldiers returning from Liberia are being placed in isolation in Vicenza, Italy out of concern for the Ebola virus, CBS News national security correspondent David Martin reports.

The soldiers being monitored include Maj. Gen. Darryl Williams who was the commander of the U.S. Army in Africa but turned over duties to the 101st Airborne Division over the weekend, Martin reports. There are currently 11 soldiers in isolation.

They apparently were met by Carabinieri in full hazmat suits. If the policy remains in effect, everyone returning from Liberia - several hundred - will be placed in isolation for 21 days. Thirty are expected in today, Martin reports.



So we are being told by the government that mandatory quarantines for those returning from having treated confirmed ebola patients should be reconsidered, and then that same government is placing US soldiers who are returning from the hot zone (but who were not involved in treating ebola patients) that they will be placed in isolation for 21 days.



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