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RE: 20-21 Nov 44 - 6/11/2020 4:07:33 PM   
Bif1961


Posts: 1938
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From: Phenix City, Alabama
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Well we see what would have happened to Kurita if he had carried the attack all the way out and ran into Halsey as he hurried back to the Taffys as they scramble to run and hide.

(in reply to Jorge_Stanbury)
Post #: 1471
RE: 20-21 Nov 44 - 6/12/2020 6:26:33 AM   
CaptBeefheart


Posts: 2173
Joined: 7/4/2003
From: Seoul, Korea
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury

I don't know the answer, but it would be sloppy if the TF# had a major impact; I mean there should be other more important factors in place
and only if nothing else is left, then go by TF number




I'm in 100% agreement. It shouldn't work that way. Still, the game is what it is.

Cheers,
CB

_____________________________

Beer, because barley makes lousy bread.

(in reply to Jorge_Stanbury)
Post #: 1472
RE: 20-21 Nov 44 - 6/13/2020 3:11:52 AM   
IdahoNYer


Posts: 2495
Joined: 9/6/2009
From: NYer living in Boise, ID
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CaptBeefheart

Although it appears you can shrug off those CVE losses, losing that much CAP could make a closer in landing pretty rough if he still has a lot of kamis.

I've read on this forum that TFs get engaged based on TF number, with the lowest-numbered TF getting engaged first, so I always try to give my surface TFs lower numbers than say my CV, CVE support and amphib TFs. Can you shed any light on whether that was true in your epic battle? Did your cruiser TFs have a higher TF number than the CVEs?

Cheers,
CB




Interesting theory about the taskforce numbering CaptBeefheart, I went back to a save before the carnage and this is what I found; here are the taskforce numbers, in order of engagement in the Kure-jima hex:

1st: IJN CA TF vs. Brit CVE TF#246
2nd: IJN CA TF vs. US CA TF#336
3rd: IJN BB TF vs. US CVE TF#44
4th: IJN CA TF vs. US DD TF#259
5th: IJN CA TF vs. US DD TF#177
6th: IJN BB TF vs. US DD TF#170 - apparently reacted from the adjacent hex to the NE.
7th: IJN BB TF vs. US ASW TF#127 (2DD/DE)
8th: IJN BB TF vs. US ASW TF#180 (DD/DE)
9th: IJN BB TF vs. US PT TF#268
10th IJN BB TF vs. US CVE TF#566
11th IJN BB TF vs. US PT TF#392
12th IJN BB TF vs. Brit Barge TF578 (both TFs evade cmbt)
13th IJN BB TF vs. US Minelaying TF#236
14th IJN BB TF vs. Brit CVE TF#246 again (both TFs evade cmbt)
15th IJN BB TF vs. US Repl TF18 (Repl TF left hex and returned/both TFs evade cmbt)
16th IJN BB TF vs. US PT TF#331 (both TFs evade cmbt)

also 4 small minesweeping TFs were never encountered.

So....what does this show you?

(in reply to CaptBeefheart)
Post #: 1473
RE: 20-21 Nov 44 - 6/13/2020 3:53:01 PM   
BBfanboy


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From: Winnipeg, MB
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It shows that the bad weather in the hex (which you referred to) had more effect than the TF# - as it should.

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(in reply to IdahoNYer)
Post #: 1474
22-23 Nov 44 - 6/13/2020 9:10:58 PM   
IdahoNYer


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From: NYer living in Boise, ID
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22-23 Nov 44

Highlights – IJN take damage heading to home ports; Amami Oshima taken and the battle for Singapore begins.

Jpn ships sunk:
BB: 2 (Haruna, Kongo)
CA: 1 (Mikuma)
DD: 6 (Akigumo, Fujinami, Kishinami, Nowaki, Michishio, Yamagumo)
E: 1
SC: 1
PB: 1
xAK: 1
xAKL: 1

Jpn ships un-sunk:
CA: 1 (Aoba)
DD: 4 (Yugumo, Tamanami, Suzunami, Hagikaze,)

Allied ships sunk:
CVE: 1 (Manila Bay - was on fire, but did get the planes/pilots off!)
DD: 1 (McCalla - scuttled)
YO: 1
LST: 6

Air loss:
Jpn: 93
Allied: 46

Subwar:
Jpn: 0 Attacks, 0 ships hit
Allies: 13 Attacks, 6 ships hit (BB, PB sunk, 3 BB, CA, Dam)

Jpn Amph Inv: None

Allied Amph Inv: None

Bases lost: None

Bases Liberated:
Amami Oshima (SWPAC)

SIGINT/Intel: IJN withdraws towards home from Kume-jima and looked to be very short fuel from the dash as AOs were sighted and engaged just off Kyushu. IJN took a heavy pounding enroute home, no longer a major surface threat. However, Kamikazes remain significant threat off Kyushu. Six IJN CVs reported heading to and sighted at Tokyo, intent unknown.

Strategic Bombing Campaign: Another good effort over Osaka with another effective raids going in both nights, although weather did limit second day’s strikes. Bomber stream consisted of 15 separate raids totaling 171 sorties at 8k ft. CAP was again light, with a max of only 9 Nick fighter bombers, no radar equipped planes. But Flak did better, downing 9 bombers, while 9 Nicks were lost. Bombing was fairly accurate with fires getting to just over 159k. Strat bombing VPs increased from 8528 to 8934 with fires still burning about 15k. B-29s will now need a bit of a rest.



Attachment (1)

< Message edited by IdahoNYer -- 6/13/2020 9:11:15 PM >

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 1475
RE: 22-23 Nov 44 - 6/13/2020 9:11:49 PM   
IdahoNYer


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From: NYer living in Boise, ID
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West Coast/Admin: NSTR.

In NOPAC, NSTR.

In CENPAC, B-29s are used to mine Tokyo and Yokahama to greet the IJN CVs. Will look to use those same Guam based B-29s to execute a port attack next turn, assuming the CVs may disband at Tokyo.

In SOPAC, the IJN continued to return to home port from its sortie to Kume-jima, and the already damaged ships were heavily interdicted by subs and aircraft. And they headed in all compass directions; BB Nagato was reportedly hit by over 20 times by divebombers has she headed north toward Saishu To, just off the Korean peninsula. BB Ise was hit twice by subs and took 10 bomb hits NNE of Daito Shoto. B-25s were again the most effective bomb platform repeatedly striking and hitting withdrawing cruisers and DDs, while once again TBFs refused to fly and deliver torpedoes. Still, the two hex dash NE probably did well for the US CVs, giving that little extra range to hit both Nagato and the surprising find of a small Repl TF off Kuroshima, setting two AOs afire. Limiting the dash to two hexes was also a good idea as Kamikazes flew again, and targets were limited to a half dozen LSTs unloading at Amami - which cost 29 Zeros and 13 Vals as Kamikazes and 15 Petes used as conventional strike aircraft at low level. LRCAP over Amami was limited due to weather, and lost 3 P-47s to the escort of Georges which lost 4 planes. I think the Kamikazes were intended for the US Fleet, not some LSTs as the strike package also included five additional raids which didn’t find targets and returned to base (yes, Kamikazes can return to base!). The Fleet will drop back to its position off Kume-jima next turn, and only limited assets will venture to Amami with the Kamikaze threat - some LCIs bringing in some engineers and a barge TF bringing supplies, both overwatched by a DD TF (3DD), and hopefully some Kume-jima based LRCAP. Another DD TF (3DD) will raid Tokara Retto which looks to have some IJN light forces in and about. I’m very curious to see if Kamikazes strike again, or if they have been shut down until the Fleet makes a closer appearance.

In SWPAC, the ground attack on Amami secures the base in the first attack, and then troops begin to attrit the remaining defenders. After two days, IJA lost over 2300 men to the Allies losing about 750. Amami remains a costly campaign. Still, the base is secure, and construction begins on the AF! Once the airfield is constructed and fighters brought in, Tokunoshima amphib will get the green light. Until then, much of the bombers will rest, while additional B-25s are set to low level naval attack posture. B-25s and B-24s will also strike Tokara-Retto port and airfield - possible refuge for IJN cripples and the AF is reportedly packed with those pesky Pete float planes. On the Formosa front, Oldendorf’s BBs bombard Taihoku with reasonable effect, inflicted over 200 casaulties without incident. Troops may be in position to launch the attack next turn or worst case, the turn after.

In China, NSTR.

In SE Asia, XV Corps makes its shock attack against Singapore! Troops meet level 6 forts, and suffer almost 10k casualties in the two attacks. IJA lose only 2500. However, troops are across the strait, and have reduced forts from 6 to level 2. Other than the poor bloody engineer battalions, most of the Allied losses were disabled squads, and formations, although needing rest, should be able to complete the attack to seize the base within a week. Actually better than I expected since the forts were reduced to level 2! IV Corps will resume its attack to clear the remaining IJA troops at Canton next turn while XXXIII Corps troops shift forces from Foochow toward the Chuhsien area. Recon is showing limited IJA troops south of Hangchow/Shanghai, so it’s only a matter of time before AFs can be secured for 10th Air Force to get their B-24s in range of Kyushu - and fighters in range to support possible landings at Saishu To.



Attachment (1)

< Message edited by IdahoNYer -- 6/13/2020 9:12:34 PM >

(in reply to IdahoNYer)
Post #: 1476
RE: 22-23 Nov 44 - 6/13/2020 9:47:35 PM   
Jorge_Stanbury


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From: Toronto and Lima
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how did they reduce it from 6 to 2?

was it because you play 2-turns?
2 attacks, with engineers reducing 1 level before the attack and one level after the attack times 2 because of the 2-turn play?

or was it something different

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Post #: 1477
RE: 22-23 Nov 44 - 6/13/2020 11:06:47 PM   
IdahoNYer


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From: NYer living in Boise, ID
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury

how did they reduce it from 6 to 2?

was it because you play 2-turns?
2 attacks, with engineers reducing 1 level before the attack and one level after the attack times 2 because of the 2-turn play?

or was it something different


We're playing two day turns, so the first attack reduced forts to level 5, and the second attack reduced them to level 2.

Here's the combat report from the two battles:
quote:

Ground combat at Singapore (50,84)

Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 71636 troops, 1080 guns, 628 vehicles, Assault Value = 2453

Defending force 28351 troops, 238 guns, 112 vehicles, Assault Value = 740

Allied engineers reduce fortifications to 5

Allied adjusted assault: 1832

Japanese adjusted defense: 1111

Allied assault odds: 1 to 1 (fort level 5)

Allied Assault reduces fortifications to 5

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), forts(+), supply(-)
Attacker: shock(+), disruption(-)

Japanese ground losses:
1677 casualties reported
Squads: 8 destroyed, 103 disabled
Non Combat: 4 destroyed, 30 disabled
Engineers: 2 destroyed, 20 disabled
Guns lost 26 (3 destroyed, 23 disabled)
Vehicles lost 6 (2 destroyed, 4 disabled)
Units destroyed 1

Allied ground losses:
7068 casualties reported
Squads: 57 destroyed, 365 disabled
Non Combat: 59 destroyed, 55 disabled
Engineers: 39 destroyed, 105 disabled
Guns lost 72 (6 destroyed, 66 disabled)
Vehicles lost 65 (2 destroyed, 63 disabled)

Assaulting units:
3rd Commando Brigade
26th Indian Division
762nd Tank Battalion
14th Indian Division
209th Cmbt Engineer Battalion
17th Indian Division
81st (West African) Division
82nd (West African) Division
XV Corps Engineer Battalion
7th New Chinese Corps
XV Corps RIASC Base Force
XV Indian Corps
31st Indian Mountain Gun Regiment
602nd Field Artillery Battalion
137/155th Field Regiment
30th Indian Mountain Gun Regiment
5th Field Regiment

Defending units:
55th/C Division
5th/B Division
33rd/B Division
48th/B Division
5th INA Regiment
18th/B Division
29th Army
Maraisha JNAF Base Force
25th Ind. Field Artillery Battalion
2nd Base Force

Ground combat at Singapore (50,84)

Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 67108 troops, 1076 guns, 627 vehicles, Assault Value = 1954

Defending force 26194 troops, 234 guns, 109 vehicles, Assault Value = 536

Allied adjusted assault: 1653

Japanese adjusted defense: 461

Allied assault odds: 3 to 1 (fort level 5)

Allied Assault reduces fortifications to 2

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), forts(+), disruption(-), experience(-)
supply(-)
Attacker: shock(+), disruption(-)

Japanese ground losses:
955 casualties reported
Squads: 58 destroyed, 61 disabled
Non Combat: 2 destroyed, 48 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 10 disabled
Guns lost 30 (7 destroyed, 23 disabled)
Vehicles lost 6 (2 destroyed, 4 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
2614 casualties reported
Squads: 20 destroyed, 234 disabled
Non Combat: 13 destroyed, 34 disabled
Engineers: 29 destroyed, 58 disabled
Guns lost 24 (6 destroyed, 18 disabled)
Vehicles lost 58 (9 destroyed, 49 disabled)
Units destroyed 1

(in reply to Jorge_Stanbury)
Post #: 1478
RE: 22-23 Nov 44 - 6/13/2020 11:08:22 PM   
IdahoNYer


Posts: 2495
Joined: 9/6/2009
From: NYer living in Boise, ID
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quote:

ORIGINAL: IdahoNYer


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury

how did they reduce it from 6 to 2?

was it because you play 2-turns?
2 attacks, with engineers reducing 1 level before the attack and one level after the attack times 2 because of the 2-turn play?

or was it something different


We're playing two day turns, so the first attack reduced forts to level 5, and the second attack reduced them to level 2.

Here's the combat report from the two battles:
quote:

Ground combat at Singapore (50,84)

Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 71636 troops, 1080 guns, 628 vehicles, Assault Value = 2453

Defending force 28351 troops, 238 guns, 112 vehicles, Assault Value = 740

Allied engineers reduce fortifications to 5

Allied adjusted assault: 1832

Japanese adjusted defense: 1111

Allied assault odds: 1 to 1 (fort level 5)

Allied Assault reduces fortifications to 5

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), forts(+), supply(-)
Attacker: shock(+), disruption(-)

Japanese ground losses:
1677 casualties reported
Squads: 8 destroyed, 103 disabled
Non Combat: 4 destroyed, 30 disabled
Engineers: 2 destroyed, 20 disabled
Guns lost 26 (3 destroyed, 23 disabled)
Vehicles lost 6 (2 destroyed, 4 disabled)
Units destroyed 1

Allied ground losses:
7068 casualties reported
Squads: 57 destroyed, 365 disabled
Non Combat: 59 destroyed, 55 disabled
Engineers: 39 destroyed, 105 disabled
Guns lost 72 (6 destroyed, 66 disabled)
Vehicles lost 65 (2 destroyed, 63 disabled)

Assaulting units:
3rd Commando Brigade
26th Indian Division
762nd Tank Battalion
14th Indian Division
209th Cmbt Engineer Battalion
17th Indian Division
81st (West African) Division
82nd (West African) Division
XV Corps Engineer Battalion
7th New Chinese Corps
XV Corps RIASC Base Force
XV Indian Corps
31st Indian Mountain Gun Regiment
602nd Field Artillery Battalion
137/155th Field Regiment
30th Indian Mountain Gun Regiment
5th Field Regiment

Defending units:
55th/C Division
5th/B Division
33rd/B Division
48th/B Division
5th INA Regiment
18th/B Division
29th Army
Maraisha JNAF Base Force
25th Ind. Field Artillery Battalion
2nd Base Force

Ground combat at Singapore (50,84)

Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 67108 troops, 1076 guns, 627 vehicles, Assault Value = 1954

Defending force 26194 troops, 234 guns, 109 vehicles, Assault Value = 536

Allied adjusted assault: 1653

Japanese adjusted defense: 461

Allied assault odds: 3 to 1 (fort level 5)

Allied Assault reduces fortifications to 2

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), forts(+), disruption(-), experience(-)
supply(-)
Attacker: shock(+), disruption(-)

Japanese ground losses:
955 casualties reported
Squads: 58 destroyed, 61 disabled
Non Combat: 2 destroyed, 48 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 10 disabled
Guns lost 30 (7 destroyed, 23 disabled)
Vehicles lost 6 (2 destroyed, 4 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
2614 casualties reported
Squads: 20 destroyed, 234 disabled
Non Combat: 13 destroyed, 34 disabled
Engineers: 29 destroyed, 58 disabled
Guns lost 24 (6 destroyed, 18 disabled)
Vehicles lost 58 (9 destroyed, 49 disabled)
Units destroyed 1



(in reply to IdahoNYer)
Post #: 1479
RE: 22-23 Nov 44 - 6/13/2020 11:17:11 PM   
Jorge_Stanbury


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From: Toronto and Lima
Status: offline
first time I have ever seen a reduction from 5 to 2 in a single combat


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Post #: 1480
RE: 22-23 Nov 44 - 6/14/2020 3:17:30 AM   
IdahoNYer


Posts: 2495
Joined: 9/6/2009
From: NYer living in Boise, ID
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jorge_Stanbury

first time I have ever seen a reduction from 5 to 2 in a single combat



Yeah, that was MOST unexpected - had never seen that kind of fort reduction without taking a base against very light opposition.

With 2 day turns, I'm usually hoping when the first attack doesn't go well, the second attack doesn't go in at all - because if it does, its usually with badly fatigued troops that get mauled. That's what I expected.

(in reply to Jorge_Stanbury)
Post #: 1481
RE: 22-23 Nov 44 - 6/15/2020 12:57:59 AM   
CaptBeefheart


Posts: 2173
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From: Seoul, Korea
Status: offline
Thanks for the feedback on the TF numbers. I'm still trying to figure out this great game after 11 years.

And thanks for the comment on the weather, BBFanboy.

Cheers,
CB

_____________________________

Beer, because barley makes lousy bread.

(in reply to IdahoNYer)
Post #: 1482
24-25 Nov 44 - 6/17/2020 5:06:43 PM   
IdahoNYer


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From: NYer living in Boise, ID
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24-25 Nov 44

Highlights – Much Kamikaze activity against DDs off Amami; US bombers continue to hit and damage the last withdrawing IJN cripples.

Jpn ships sunk:
CA: 1 (Myoko)
SC: 4
TK: 1
xAP: 1
AMc: 1

Allied ships sunk:
DD: 3 (Maddox, DeHaven, Haggard)

Air loss:
Jpn: 294
Allied: 42

Subwar:
Jpn: 0 Attacks, 0 ships hit
Allies: 6 Attacks, 1 ship hit (TK sunk)

Jpn Amph Inv: None

Allied Amph Inv: None

Bases lost:
Beaufort (SWPAC)

Bases Liberated:
Agrihan (CENPAC - flipped)

SIGINT/Intel: Was a bit surprised the mass Kamikazes launch at a small DD TF, either L_S_T has plenty of planes avail or he was expecting something larger. Recon planes find “BBs” at a few ports, so we’ll look to send some heavies - assuming these are damaged BBs taking refuge in the nearest ports.

Strategic Bombing Campaign: Formosa bombers rest, but remaining fires at Osaka increased Strat bombing VPs from 8934 to 9322. Guam based B-29s hit Tokyo port hoping for disbanded carriers and find none, but lose one B-29 to Flak. The incoming B-29 6th Bomb Group will disband, providing 30 brand new planes to fill out existing squadrons over the next few turns. Upgrading to the newest B-29 is taking longer than planned, with each squadron swapping out aircraft taking over 2 weeks to get back to operational status.

West Coast/Admin: NSTR.

In NOPAC, NSTR.

In CENPAC, The dot base of Agrihan, the northern most island in the Mariana chain flips to Allied control, leaving only Saipan and Tinian under Japanese control. Had a few units prepping for an Amphib to seize Agrihan, an will now just shuttle in some engineers. Will look to get some patrol planes based here, but that’s about all we’ll do with the base.

In SOPAC, the DD TF (3DD) sent to hunt targets around Tokara Retto finds and sink 3 SCs, and returns to home waters without issue. The DD TF (3DD) sent to provoke Kamikazes at Amami succeeds in their mission, perhaps too well. Mass waves of Kamikazes strike, eventually sinking the three DDs. Only one hit in the first raid of almost 100 planes, but once the DDs ran out of AA ammo, and the planes kept coming, their fate was sealed. Took 7 raids, but the DDs were sunk, but the cost was very, very high: 234 Zeros of various types, 10 George and 12 Vals. US LRCAP did better claiming over 60 of those to air to air at a loss of 4 P-47s. While I hate losing ships, it was a good exchange. LCIs put ashore more engineers without loss as well. Will again send in reinforcing engineers with LCIs with a PT escort, and another DD TF (2DD) will loiter for possible Kamikazes, overwatched by LRCAP. I’d rather have the Kamis expend themselves on these DDs than the upcoming major engineer convoy to Amami or the upcoming landings at Tokunoshima.

In SWPAC, bombers hit Tokaro Retto with good effect, destroying a reported 20 Petes on the ground and continue to hit withdrawing cripples. No Petes were launched at the ships at Amami which was a good sign. AF construction at Amami is close to a level 1 (98%), so fighters will be avail for CAP next turn. Troops will resume the attack next turn on Amami to clear out remaining defenders. The big ground event will be on Formosa with the first attack on Taihoku which I expect to be costly to both sides. Defense is still estimated at over 50k troops, but bombardments are getting good results, so the 4+ divisions and support should be able to succeed. Lastly, a bypassed IJA element of unknown strength took back the ungarrisoned base of Beaufort on the northwest coast of Borneo. Will need to deal with that in the upcoming days.

In China, NSTR.

In SE Asia, IV Corps eliminates the remaining IJA defenders at Canton with a shock attack, 3500 IJA casualties to just over 500 Allied in the two attacks, the remaining IJA formations being wiped out by attrition. Got lucky; didn’t intend to do a shock attack, but a late arriving construction engineer unit caused the entire Allied corps to go shock attack when it crossed over a river moving into Canton! Now mission complete, IV Corps begins planning for landings on Korea! XXXIII Corps lead elements will recon by bombardment at Chuhsien as the main body continues to move east. In Malaya, XV Corps still needs more rest before continuing the attack at Singers.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by IdahoNYer -- 6/20/2020 1:39:20 AM >

(in reply to CaptBeefheart)
Post #: 1483
RE: 24-25 Nov 44 - 6/17/2020 5:31:16 PM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 16094
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline
Oh no! You lost Maddox! How are you gonna start a war in Vietnam now?

No narrative on the sinking of Myoko or the attack on Oyodo?

_____________________________

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(in reply to IdahoNYer)
Post #: 1484
RE: 24-25 Nov 44 - 6/17/2020 7:05:27 PM   
IdahoNYer


Posts: 2495
Joined: 9/6/2009
From: NYer living in Boise, ID
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Oh no! You lost Maddox! How are you gonna start a war in Vietnam now?

No narrative on the sinking of Myoko or the attack on Oyodo?


That's hilarious on Maddox's loss! Didn't, but should have, connected those dots before you mentioned it!

As for Myoko sinking...might be from an earlier loss, FoW. I was already showing it as sunk on my "blood board", but might have missed it being reported as "unsunk" at some point. The replay showed my planes hitting Mogami along with Oyodo - and I also have Oyodo as sunk already, so it could be the Agano that was being attacked.

I just know that a CA and CL were hit by air....will be a while before the dust settles and my cyber intel analysts tell be exactly which ships were lost.

(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 1485
RE: 24-25 Nov 44 - 6/18/2020 12:58:51 AM   
BBfanboy


Posts: 16094
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From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline
Oyodo is a different class than the Aganos. The former has two X three gun turrets all forward, the latter has twin gun turrets, 2 fore and 1 aft. The animation ship is usually accurate on the class.

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No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to IdahoNYer)
Post #: 1486
RE: 24-25 Nov 44 - 6/18/2020 3:55:35 PM   
IdahoNYer


Posts: 2495
Joined: 9/6/2009
From: NYer living in Boise, ID
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Oyodo is a different class than the Aganos. The former has two X three gun turrets all forward, the latter has twin gun turrets, 2 fore and 1 aft. The animation ship is usually accurate on the class.


True...I'm just going with what my intel analysts (i.e., Tracker) tell me is or isn't sunk.


(in reply to BBfanboy)
Post #: 1487
26-27 Nov 44 - 6/18/2020 4:25:26 PM   
IdahoNYer


Posts: 2495
Joined: 9/6/2009
From: NYer living in Boise, ID
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26-27 Nov 44

Highlights – Taihoku taken in the first attack! Kamikazes strike at DDs at Amami again.

Jpn ships sunk:
CA: 1 (Aoba - replaces Mikuma)
E: 1
SC: 1
xAK: 2
AMc: 1
ACM: 1

Jpn ships un-sunk:
CA: 1 (Mikuma)

Allied ships sunk: None

Air loss:
Jpn: 86
Allied: 35

Subwar:
Jpn: 0 Attacks, 0 ships hit
Allies: 2 Attacks, 1 ship hit (SC sunk)

Jpn Amph Inv: None

Allied Amph Inv: None

Bases lost: None

Bases Liberated:
Taihoku (SWPAC)

SIGINT/Intel: No Kamikazes, but torpedo bombers strike. However, L_S_T seemed to indicate in his turn's email message it wasn’t intentional, so not sure that Amami will trigger a major strike going forward.

Strategic Bombing Campaign: I made the mistake of not grounding the Guam based B-29s, and they hit Tokyo port again for no gain while losing five B-29s to a combination of fighters, Flak and ops. Not good. Formosa bombers continue to rest, while small remaining fires at Osaka increased Strat bombing VPs from 9322 to 9438.

West Coast/Admin: NSTR.

In NOPAC, NSTR.

In CENPAC, NSTR.

In SOPAC, the DD TF (2DD) does draw strikes; two escorted Frances strikes in a conventional torpedo bombing run profile. LRCAP scores well, downing 28 Jacks, 25 Zeros and 8 Frances in exchange for 2 P-47s and Hellcat. The DDs managed to avoid all the torpedoes dropped to top off a good day! Next turn will be the big day if strikes come - the first big engineer convoy will land troops at Amami and hopefully will begin taking troops off. The Fleet will move to support, as well as CA and CVE TFs providing close cover - plus DD TFs and PT squadrons. The big question is whether or not this mission will be contested.

In SWPAC, the big news is Taihoku with its level 5 fort is surprisingly taken in the first assault with a reasonable cost. After two days of attacks, the IJA lost 7000 troops to the Allies’ 2500. Allied troops need to rest before resuming the attack of course, but the base is taken and engineers can be moved in to begin expansion of the AF. Also good news, Amami Oshima AF is at level one, supporting night fighters and P-47s. Should reach level 2 and perhaps level 3 next turn. Ground troops on Amami will resume the attack next turn, and hopefully will eliminate the last IJA defenders so the Allied combat troops can be taken off, and prepare for future operations. With Taihoku secured, most bombers rest in preparation of supporting the landings at Tokunoshima and Okinoerabushima.

In China, NSTR.

In SE Asia, XXXIII Corps troops will launch the attack on Chuhsien next turn as well as the position just to the south - which will hopefully open up the route to Wenchow from the north. The big event will be XV Corps resuming its attack to secure Singapore - really need to secure the port as soon as possible with all those CVEs needing repair.





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< Message edited by IdahoNYer -- 6/18/2020 4:26:19 PM >

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Post #: 1488
RE: 26-27 Nov 44 - 6/21/2020 9:14:21 AM   
saj42


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The use of, and fate, of your destroyers at Amami reminds me of the real life actions of the radar picket destroyers off Okinawa in Mar-May 1945.

https://www.history.navy.mil/research/library/online-reading-room/title-list-alphabetically/b/battle-experience-radar-pickets.html

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Post #: 1489
RE: 26-27 Nov 44 - 6/23/2020 4:39:01 PM   
IdahoNYer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: saj42

The use of, and fate, of your destroyers at Amami reminds me of the real life actions of the radar picket destroyers off Okinawa in Mar-May 1945.



Yep. That's where I got the idea...should have employed them earlier. Might have saved some CVs!

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Post #: 1490
28-29 Nov 44 - 6/23/2020 4:47:26 PM   
IdahoNYer


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28-29 Nov 44

Highlights – Singapore taken! CV Shokaku sighted by sub at sea with a task force.

Jpn ships sunk:
AMc: 2

Allied ships sunk: None

Air loss:
Jpn: 19
Allied: 9

Subwar:
Jpn: 0 Attacks, 0 ships hit
Allies: 3 Attacks, 1 ship hit (AMc sunk; Shokaku missed by SS Snook about 320m ESE of Tokyo)

Jpn Amph Inv: None

Allied Amph Inv: None

Bases lost: None

Bases Liberated:
Singapore (SE Asia)
Chuhsien (SE Asia)

SIGINT/Intel: So…..what is TF Shokaku doing at sea? That’s the big question of course. Likely a more potent CV Rear Area Raid is my guess, or perhaps a strike at US bases/shipping in the Marianas. Also in question is Shokaku just well protected (sighted w/3CS, 3CLAA, 4DD) or did Snook miss other elements of the entire KB?

Strategic Bombing Campaign: Bombers continue to rest, and refit with the B-29-25 model; Strat bombing VPs remain at 9438.

West Coast/Admin: NSTR.

In NOPAC, a number of subs will head south to lay enroute Shokaku if she continues to head east.

In CENPAC, the Shokaku sighting is concerning, and once again shipping lanes are at risk. No immediate threat for a few turns, however should she continue to head into the Pacific waters, that is another story. I sub “trip wire” line has been established in the usual “black gap” between the Aleutians and Midway which should provide the next sighting. This line currently has 24 subs on the line, and will be reinforced by another dozen or so to provide some response/ambush capability should the IJN attempt to head in the North Pacific. The other potential target are the Marianas where a quick strike could possibly catch some soft naval targets running supplies. Naval search out of the Marianas/Midway/Wake should provide warning if she does turn to a more southerly course, and there are a number of subs available in that area as well. Just in case, I’m routing CV Franklin TF (CV, CVL, 2BB, 3CA, CL, CLAA, DDs) heading from Pearl to Naga, a bit further south. I’d rather intercept with either subs or the entire Fleet rather than a single CV or two. Will see what develops - after being sighted early, the IJN may just head back to port as well.

In SOPAC, its pretty calm off Amami for a change. Relative to the previous turns anyway. The DD TF (2DDs) sent to stir things up near Koshiki-jima Retto comes up empty, and the Japanese effort against Amami was limited to two nocturnal raids. The first was 18 Petes coming in at wavetop height under the 28 plane CAP, but missed hitting any of the CVEs targeted, and AA fire claimed eight. The second was aerial mining of Amami by some Helens and Sallys which the AMs and DMSs are currently dealing with. With fighting concluded on the island, the focus is now pulling combat troops off, and pushing more engineers and support troops on Amami; the third and final engineer convoy will begin landing troops next turn as the first combat troops start coming off. With an IJN CV reported at sea, the Allied CVs will shift position to just south of Amami, continuing to provide cover, but a bit closer in case I decide to head to the Central Pacific to hunt down the IJN. Lastly, the Tokunoshima Amph TFs, along with Oldendorf’s BBs and other support will come up from Miyako-jima to stage at Kume-jima.

In SWPAC, fighting ends on Amami Oshima with the last IJA element wiped out at a cost of 5500 men to the dozen or so Allied. The AF reaches level 2 and should hit level 3 next turn. After that, progress will be a tad slower, despite the 75+ engineer vehicles already in support. 3 P-47 squadrons currently make up the CAP, with a squadron of Black Widows providing night the CAP. As mentioned, the combat troops are starting to be loaded to come off Amami, starting with one of the NZ Bdes and some armor and artillery. All the troops will be transported to Aparri on the NE coast of Luzon where they will have time to plan for upcoming landings at Ishigaki and Iriomote, just off the east coast of Formosa. Ishigaki will become a heavy bomber AF and Iriomote more of a support base. The troops earmarked for Okinoerabushima will begin loading onto transports next turn, to quickly follow up on the Tokunoshima landings. This will be primarily an Australian effort, with 3 Aussie Bdes and support troops. Bombers, both heavy and medium, will begin the softening up of both Tokunoshima and Okinoerabushumia next turn. Oki may be the tougher objective - although less defenders reported, it’s a size 2 island which will trigger a shock attack. The goal is to have all four of these bases (Amami and Kume-jime being the other two) basing fighters able to sweep over Kyushu in December.

In China, NSTR.

In SE Asia, saving the best news for last, Singapore is re-taken! It falls in the first attack which was expected since the forts were already reduced to 2. Cost wasn’t light, in the two attacks, the IJA lost about 5000 men to the Allies losing about 1500. But the Allied formations are still in good shape and they will be able to continue attacking next turn. Singapore shipyard is open for business; even down to capability of 32, it’s the best port in the Western Pacific, and the battered CVEs as well as other assorted ships will start arriving next turn to begin repairs. The port will of course be expanded to its full capacity of 70 in the coming weeks. Lastly, XXXIII Corps troops take Chuhsien inflicting about 2000 casualties at a cost of 500. This now allows for a direct drive on Wenchow, as well as opening up the route to Hangchow and Ningpo.




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Post #: 1491
RE: 28-29 Nov 44 - 6/24/2020 3:44:19 AM   
CaptBeefheart


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Whoa, Singapore's yard is at 70 potential capacity? That was nice of your opponent to build it up.

Cheers,
CB

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Post #: 1492
RE: 28-29 Nov 44 - 6/29/2020 11:30:21 PM   
IdahoNYer


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30 Nov-1 Dec 44

Highlights – Fighting ends at Singapore; no contact with Shokaku TF.

Jpn ships sunk: (all old)
DD: 1 (Takanami)
SS: 1 (I-43)
PB: 1
ARD: 1

Allied ships sunk: None

Air loss:
Jpn: 32
Allied: 14

Subwar:
Jpn: 0 Attacks, 0 ships hit
Allies: 1 Attack, 0 ships hit

Jpn Amph Inv: None

Allied Amph Inv: None

Bases lost: None

Bases Liberated: None

SIGINT/Intel: No contact with Shokaku indicates she’s headed back to the barn - had she continued ESE she should have hit the next sub line. Still, will assume she is at sea for another turn or two, just in case.

Strategic Bombing Campaign: Bombers continue to rest while the recon planes start looking for potential targets; Strat bombing VPs remain at 9438.

West Coast/Admin: NSTR.

In NOPAC, NSTR.

In CENPAC, NSTR.

In SOPAC, other than an inconclusive DD engagement at Amami (four against four, 1 hit each), it was pretty quiet naval wise. No air attacks against the large shipping concentration now off Amami where one of the US divisions will be loaded up with the remaining NZ Bde. The Tokunoshima Amph TFs will head to target from Kume-jima next turn, led by Oldendorf’s BBs for bombardment. CV TFs are already in position, just south of Amami, but I don’t think a major Kamikaze effort is in the making. The Okinoerabushima Amph TF has completed loading at Naga, and will head to Itbayat Is to rendezvous with the Amph TF loading up the remaining Aussie Bde.

In SWPAC, Amami Oshima AF reaches level 3 as engineers continue to push toward level 4. Bombers begin softening up both Tokunoshima and Okinoerabushumia with good results so far, indicating reasonable fortifications to deal with. More bombers will hit both targets next turn as bombers are brought in to Taihoku AF from Luzon. On the Formosa ground front, troops resumed the attack against the remaining defenders at Taihoku, and the two attacks went well with over 20k IJA troops lost to about 800 Allied. Those attacks did fatigue the attackers considerably, and they will need some rest before making the next, and hopefully final push.

In China, two Chinese corps begin reducing the remaining IJA defenders that withdrew SE from Chungking, inflicting over 1600 casualties in exchange for about 300. Troops need to restock up on supplies before resuming the attack. The front has somewhat stabilized to the east, and it will take some time before Chinese troops released from Chungking, Chengtu and Canton reach the front.

In SE Asia, fighting ends at Singapore with two final attacks that inflict 12k IJA losses to under 400 Allied. The repair shipyard is already working overtime on the first CVEs to arrive! XV Corps troops have earned a well deserved rest, and will need about a month or so to get back to full strength. Will look to have XV Corps follow and support IV Corps on the Korean Peninsula in ’45. XXXIII Corps begin advancing on Wenchow, and it appears the IJA defensive line southwest of Hangchow has begun collapsing toward the cities of Hangchow/Shanghai.

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Post #: 1493
Nov 44 Summary - 6/30/2020 10:12:22 PM   
IdahoNYer


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Nov 44 Summary

What a month! Significant VP locations secured on land and a major naval engagement guts the IJN which pushed the victory level to “Major”! On the debit side, the cost of gutting the IJN was steep and the strategic bombing campaign sputtered a bit as new improved B-29s are brought into service. The landings at Amami Oshima triggered two significant IJN naval sorties, but only one resulting in a major engagement. While Taihoku on Formosa was secured by US and ANZAC forces, the major land gains were made on the Asian continent by Commonwealth and Chinese forces - Chungking, Honk Kong and Singapore were the highlights. Naval losses for the month were significant for both sides; the IJN reportedly lost 2BB, 2CVE, 7CA, 2CL, 15DD, E, 5SS, and 13 MTB, compared to the Allies losing 10CVE, 2CA, 1CL, 2CLAA, 7DD, 6DE, SS and 18PT. In the air, losses were fairly even: 960 for Jpn to 869 Allied for the month’s tallies.

INTEL: I figured the landings at Amami would trigger a response, and it sure did, although not in a manner I had thought - the IJN counter was a massive all-out effort aimed at engaging the US Fleet, not the Amphib and supporting TFs. While this sortie gutted the IJN surface fleet, leaving only a handful of effective warships, the KB remains intact, believed to be based near Tokyo, and remains a threat, although likely limited by fuel shortages. The lack of a determined more forward defensive line in China has been a major surprise, and not fighting major engagements to hold either Chungking or Hong Kong were welcome. The defensive line the IJA has established in NE China looks to be taking shape, and probably won’t be tested all too much - no major gains to be made. While supply and fuel issues can be expected to limit any major offensive action, I can still expect a tough challenge to gain air superiority over Kyushu, and the threat of Kamikazes and another CV rear area raid are also likely.

Strategic Bombing Campaign: Only four major raids during the month as the B-29-25 comes into service. The raids hit three separate cities; Osaka hit again on two raids. Raids were met by increasing numbers of night fighters, although not all are radar equipped, and effectiveness varied. AA fire remains a major threat, but bombing results were good on three of the four raids, netting about 2000 strategic VPs, bringing the total to 9438. December should see an increase in raids, although weather and refitting squadrons with the newer B-29s may still impact. Either way, will keep the B-29s flying at night. With the new B-29-25 and the AF at Taihoku AF become operational in December, Tokyo is now in normal range and the goal is to have the first massed raid against the capital during the month. Will also look to begin limited B-24 daylight raids over Kyushu beginning in December, largely dependent on the success of the upcoming fighter sweeps from the Ryukyus. With SE Asia forces gaining bases along the SE China coast, Tenth AF B-24s and long range fighters may also enter the campaign over Kyushu before the month is out.

SUBWAR: Even with the blanket of subs covering the approaches to the Ryukyus, the IJN was able to penetrate the sub screen on a major sortie without loss and engage the US Fleet. However, subs were successful in picking off a number of the damaged ships on their return trip. Also, the increased sub pickets did find and engage another CV rear area raid sortie. Will continue to keep subs concentrated off the Ryukyus and the picket line in the “Black Gap” south of the Aleutians, as well as continue to push a limited number of boats into the Yellow Sea and Sea of Japan. Japanese ASW remains lethal, although a bit less effective as the Japanese defensive perimeter continues to shrink.

West Coast/USA/Rear Areas: Fighter production increases to 1268 in Dec as the Russian Yak-9 comes into production, and the British begin receiving the Hellcat II. Pilot pools are in pretty good shape, a little short for US bomber pilots, but manageable. On the naval side, two new Essex class CVs will arrive during Dec.

NOPAC. Still quiet and staying quiet.

CENPAC. By month’s end the CV rear area raid was eliminated and convoy re-routing was just starting to normalize when another raid looked to be beginning. While I think that raid returned to port, the threat of another raid remains, and will rely on over 30 subs deployed in CENPAC to provide warning and engage should it develop. The main body of troops earmarked for the ’45 landings at Hokkaido have arrived in Hawaii, and will take all of Dec if not more to sort them out into objective oriented convoy packages - matching land and amphibious forces required to lift. Troops also still need more time to plan, the earliest embarkation is likely Feb.

SOPAC. So, two major IJN sorites to disrupt the Amami landings, and the first major sortie was a non-event as the IJN blow fell on empty seas as the US Fleet had repositioned - and while air search got wind of an IJN sortie, weather prohibited major counter strikes - and the extent of that first sortie remains largely unknown. The second soritie went in a totally unexpected direction - reaching all the way back to the “safe anchorage” at Kume-jima, missing the CV and Amph TFs, but engaging the CVE TFs awaiting the Amami support troops convoy. I probably couldn’t have had better timing for the entire IJN surface force to sortie - while major surface engagements did maul the CVE TFs and their cruiser/destroyer protectors, the US forces inflicting enough damage to make the return to port for the IJN very challenging, and the US CVs remained very much intact. By the time the last IJN ship limped into port, the mighty IJN was wrecked as a “Fleet in Being”, no longer capable of an all out sortie. With the focus shifting to securing Tokunoshima and Okinoerabushima, I don’t see another major engagement. Once troops are ashore at Okinoerabushima, the Fleet will head to Naga for a much needed rest, which will include gaining newer models of TBFs and Helldivers, as well as upgrading the last F6F-3s to -5s.

SWPAC. Amami Oshima proved to be a tough nut to crack, but most of the excitement was at sea, not on land where sufficient forces were landed at the outset. I expect similar events to unfold at Tokunoshima and Okinoerabushima landings, without the naval fireworks. The ground campaign culminated on Formosa with Taihoku being seized easier than expected. SWPAC will focus on the air campaign in Dec, with the start of a prolonged, attritional fighter campaign over the skies of Kyushu to gain air superiority. An estimated 2000+ fighter are estimated to be in Kyushu, mostly at northern bases. But with the new bases seized in the Ryukyus, single engine fighters are well within range. I expect a brutal, expensive, but ultimately successful air campaign lasting at least a month.

China. Taking Chengtu and Chungking were welcome surprises, and culminated the intended drive north. The eastern drive has found what appears to be a fairly robust defensive line, centered on Changsa. Also helping China is the supply situation which has climbed to over 500k in country. Will take most of December to reposition forces, and will not look until Jan ’45 before making a major Chinese led effort. Dec will focus on maintaining contact with SE Asia’s attack along the coastal ports, and probing the IJA defensive line.

SE Asia. Not one, but two jewels were restored to the Crown in Nov with both Hong Kong and then Singapore being liberated at a much lower cost than expected. With Canton also falling, most of the SE Asia ground forces are now resting and preparing, only XXXIII Corps is currently engaged in clearing coastal bases in order to gain AFs to range Kyushu, which will be the focus in Dec. Also, will look to transit much support base units out of Malaya and the DEI now that the Malayan campaign is over. Goal is that SE Asia forces are prepared to launch a new campaign in Feb ’45 against the Korean Peninsula.




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Post #: 1494
RE: 2-3 Mar 42 - 7/1/2020 1:03:08 AM   
LGKMAS

 

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Been reading this with interest and picking up a few tips.
But one item caught my eye. you say
quote:

but the key will be opening up the land supply route which takes time - and engineers

Is this something specific to the scenario you are playing or have I missed something in the manual? How do you use engrs to improve land supply routes?

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Post #: 1495
RE: 2-3 Mar 42 - 7/1/2020 1:15:45 AM   
RangerJoe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LGKMAS

Been reading this with interest and picking up a few tips.
But one item caught my eye. you say
quote:

but the key will be opening up the land supply route which takes time - and engineers

Is this something specific to the scenario you are playing or have I missed something in the manual? How do you use engrs to improve land supply routes?



When you increase the size of the airfields and any ports, the base can hold more supplies. Those supplies can then be used by units there as well as units in the field.

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Post #: 1496
RE: 2-3 Mar 42 - 7/1/2020 4:22:45 AM   
LGKMAS

 

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Ah, I had hoped it meant the engr units could improve roads etc, thus improving supply routes. I suppose there is no Burma Siam railway in the game, nor a Ledo railroad?

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Post #: 1497
RE: 2-3 Mar 42 - 7/1/2020 5:43:40 AM   
RangerJoe


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Nope.

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Seek peace but keep your gun handy.

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(in reply to LGKMAS)
Post #: 1498
RE: 2-3 Mar 42 - 7/1/2020 8:08:20 AM   
LGKMAS

 

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You could have cushioned the blow a bit. Like " Sorry but your expectations are wildly out of line and are not supported by the Devs so suck it up, snowflake."

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Post #: 1499
RE: 2-3 Mar 42 - 7/1/2020 1:32:08 PM   
BBfanboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LGKMAS

You could have cushioned the blow a bit. Like " Sorry but your expectations are wildly out of line and are not supported by the Devs so suck it up, snowflake."

Some very techie gamers developed a system for allowing rail and road construction or improvements in the game by changing the map data file to improve a particular segment and modifying the map art to correspond.

The change did not require engineers to be on site but was limited to one segment per month for each side, to reflect construction difficulties (terrain, malaria, cold, monsoon, supply, manpower). The players had to select the segment they were improving or building and both sides had to make the same changes to the map data file and artwork.

I never saw much continuing discussion on the idea because it required some technical skills to modify the files and is somewhat cumbersome while not making a huge amount of difference to the way the game plays out.

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