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Fuel Usage and Depots

 
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Fuel Usage and Depots - 9/3/2014 3:13:56 AM   
Stevechase

 

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As I understand it now fuel depots are simply flavor. Seems I read somewhere fuel usage and depot limitations are to be modeled in a future update. Is this still planned?
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RE: Fuel Usage and Depots - 9/3/2014 12:34:23 PM   
mikmykWS

 

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Honestly we looked at it and thought players would find managing fuel logistics for airbases to be a major pain in the rear.

We're right on that right?

or I hope

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RE: Fuel Usage and Depots - 9/3/2014 2:23:07 PM   
jarraya

 

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My 2c. Unless your scenario is weeks long, it's not even worth thinking about fuel.

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RE: Fuel Usage and Depots - 9/3/2014 2:55:01 PM   
Randomizer


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quote:

We're right on that right?

Absolutely, at least from my perspective. Some are not happy with ready times and movement of A/C around flight decks so the last thing CMANO needs is arguing about things like fuel-transfer rates, bowser availability and on-base pipelines.

-C

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RE: Fuel Usage and Depots - 9/3/2014 2:58:26 PM   
Dobey455

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mikmyk

Honestly we looked at it and thought players would find managing fuel logistics for airbases to be a major pain in the rear.

We're right on that right?

or I hope


You're right.
If you modelled fuel USAGE you would also need to model FUEL REPLENISHMENT via ground logisitics.

Most tanks are filled by tankers or piplines almost as fast as they emptied, so I think we can accept "unlimited fuel" over the course of a 2 - 5 day campaign as an acceptable abstraction.

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RE: Fuel Usage and Depots - 9/3/2014 7:58:16 PM   
Gunner98

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: mikmyk

Honestly we looked at it and thought players would find managing fuel logistics for airbases to be a major pain in the rear.

We're right on that right?

or I hope


100% correct. Many years ago I decided give up accounting to join the army because I didn't want to be 'Professionally dull & boring' (no offence to the accountants out there) - then I spent most of my army life counting stuff! (ammo, rations, people, $$ etc etc). The last think I want to do in retirement is play a game where I need to worry about base fuel consumption....

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RE: Fuel Usage and Depots - 9/3/2014 8:48:49 PM   
dcpollay


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The accountant reporting in here....The time it could be important is when you destroy the tanks to prevent refuelling.

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RE: Fuel Usage and Depots - 9/3/2014 8:49:51 PM   
Randomizer


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Link to suitable Monty Python sketch...

-C

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RE: Fuel Usage and Depots - 9/3/2014 9:06:54 PM   
Gunner98

 

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Although Col Mustard brings up a good point. You should no longer be able to dispnce fuel if your tanks have a bloody big hole in them

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RE: Fuel Usage and Depots - 9/4/2014 3:56:58 PM   
Dobey455

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gunner98



Although Col Mustard brings up a good point. You should no longer be able to dispnce fuel if your tanks have a bloody big hole in them


That's not entirely true.
If tanks are destoyed you can't store fuel, but it is still commming in via trucks or pipline, or whatever.
It would certianly be an invconvienince as you now need to move fuel directly from supply to refueling trucks to jet with no surplus on hand, but it "shouldn't" stop you cold.

How to model that would be a pretty tough ask. In some cases you might end all flight ops, but in many others you would only reduce the tempo.

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RE: Fuel Usage and Depots - 9/4/2014 11:45:52 PM   
dcpollay


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True enough, but I would also suggest that destroying the tanks would also disable the transfer/dispensing mechanisms if not the pipelines themselves. Any tankers containing fuel would have limited quantities and would be a target on the ground. I guess it depends on how much you want to detail and how much to abstract.

_____________________________

"It's all according to how your boogaloo situation stands, you understand."

Formerly known as Colonel Mustard, before I got Slitherine Syndrome.

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RE: Fuel Usage and Depots - 9/5/2014 12:05:06 AM   
Feltan


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Yeah, there might be fuel remaining on base -- but think about the scene. Fuel tanks on fire, thick black smoke everywhere, emergency vehicles rushing to and fro, collateral damage, planes being waved off and diverted, casualties being evacuated .... etc., etc.

I have a hard time thinking that flight operations wouldn't be suspended even if there was fuel available in theory.

My two cents: if an airbase's fuel tanks are all gone, no flight ops. Simple Boolean logic.

Regards,
Feltan

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RE: Fuel Usage and Depots - 9/5/2014 1:36:00 AM   
Randomizer


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quote:

My two cents: if an airbase's fuel tanks are all gone, no flight ops. Simple Boolean logic.

Except that sometimes the tank farms are some distance away from the field, prevailing winds might be favourable for continued flight ops, invisible civilian assets may be available to fight the fires and blah, blah, blah.

There are too many potential variables at work here and no way for the developers to please everybody. The current situation is not broken so it hardly needs a fix, Boolean or otherwise.

$0.02 CAD.

-C

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RE: Fuel Usage and Depots - 9/5/2014 1:49:07 AM   
Feltan


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Randomizer

quote:

My two cents: if an airbase's fuel tanks are all gone, no flight ops. Simple Boolean logic.

Except that sometimes the tank farms are some distance away from the field, prevailing winds might be favourable for continued flight ops, invisible civilian assets may be available to fight the fires and blah, blah, blah.

There are too many potential variables at work here and no way for the developers to please everybody. The current situation is not broken so it hardly needs a fix, Boolean or otherwise.

$0.02 CAD.

-C


The reason I suggested that approach is that the game essentially does that for ammo. If all the ammo storage sites are gone, the planes will not re-arm.

There are a lot of potential variables at work there too, but everyone seems satisfied that blowing up all the ammo storage sites has tangible effect on flight operations.

Regards,
Feltan

(in reply to Randomizer)
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RE: Fuel Usage and Depots - 9/5/2014 11:07:20 AM   
Gunner98

 

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A solution might be to create a new 'Realism Setting' (like detailed gun fire control) where the scenario designer can set it to ON if it is critical to the scenario (still ignorable by players), or the player can set it ON if he feels that its the right thing to do. 

OFF = as we have now; ON = no fuel tanks remaining means newly arriving AC remain with the fuel they arrived with

-this assumes that AC in any state of Ready already have fuel or will get if from residual resources
-Allows AC to depart the base as long as they have enough fuel to get to another (ferry mission perhaps, or mid-air refuel)
-Simplifies the very complex issue described above

B

< Message edited by Gunner98 -- 9/5/2014 12:08:18 PM >

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