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Totally Lost and Confused - 8/28/2014 1:55:31 PM   
Kim White


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Hi All,
I don't think of myself as a stupid man but after several hours of trying to get to grips with this game I feel lost and confused. I've tried playing the "tutorial". It shows you two moves then sort of says "you are on your own, have a play around".

I don't know what to do or where to go.

I tried loading the campaign game. I cannot even find the main British Fleet and have no idea on how to set anything up. I think the designers are so close to this game that they are assuming WE will just "know" what to do.

If I could, I would let the computer play BOTH sides and just watch, but that choice is not available.

It would even have been good if I could just play the British and let the AI play everything else, until I learned more, but I cannot do that.

So, until AGEOD publishes a PROPER tutorial, if anyone does have a good AAR, please treat us like total idiots and tell us EXACTLY what you did, and how, to play the game.

I don't mind if you do treat me like that, I'm not proud. Just so long as it helps me UNDERSTAND.
Cheers
Kim
Post #: 1
RE: Totally Lost and Confused - 8/28/2014 2:04:24 PM   
zakblood


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this is why i compared the game to Gary Grigsby’s War in the East, looks great, as both do, but easy of play?, well i've only seen a few vids, and tbh it looked way over my head so until some easy lessons come out i think i stay a bit longer on the fence and not make a purchase, fell for you as i'm in the same boat as you, except you have a paddle and bought the game, i'm just sitting and watching and learning with what others have to say, then will make my mind up, might take a few weeks or months im guessing...

on your point, the only real way to learn anything now days, it sit and make some massive mistakes and try and learn from them, if reading the manual doesn't give you the answers, then keep asking, then at least others will also learn and get a reply, as if this site is good for not only games, it great for advice too. good luck, i feel for you

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RE: Totally Lost and Confused - 8/28/2014 4:11:52 PM   
ReviewGameX27

 

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This game really needs more tool tips ingame that explain and show vital information. Right now u can only guess most important frontage of armies...

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RE: Totally Lost and Confused - 8/28/2014 5:16:44 PM   
Rekm41


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Very nice AAR here

http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?36769-Decisive-Moments-a-To-End-All-Wars-After-Action-Report&p=323627#post323627

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RE: Totally Lost and Confused - 8/28/2014 5:21:35 PM   
NotOneStepBack


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Yes unfortunately our niche of gaming rarely has ease of play walkthroughs. I was able to figure out war in the east with only the manual and many hours of playing around, so it should be doable.

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RE: Totally Lost and Confused - 8/28/2014 5:23:05 PM   
Rekm41


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And an episode version of EAW here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fj9kz94FML4



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RE: Totally Lost and Confused - 8/28/2014 6:03:31 PM   
wosung

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kim White

Hi All,
I don't think of myself as a stupid man but after several hours of trying to get to grips with this game I feel lost and confused. I've tried playing the "tutorial". It shows you two moves then sort of says "you are on your own, have a play around".

I don't know what to do or where to go.

I tried loading the campaign game. I cannot even find the main British Fleet and have no idea on how to set anything up. I think the designers are so close to this game that they are assuming WE will just "know" what to do.

If I could, I would let the computer play BOTH sides and just watch, but that choice is not available.

It would even have been good if I could just play the British and let the AI play everything else, until I learned more, but I cannot do that.

So, until AGEOD publishes a PROPER tutorial, if anyone does have a good AAR, please treat us like total idiots and tell us EXACTLY what you did, and how, to play the game.

I don't mind if you do treat me like that, I'm not proud. Just so long as it helps me UNDERSTAND.
Cheers
Kim


1. There are 2 campaign games: Historical campaign (Aug 1914-1919) and Grand campaign (July 1914-1919). Click on them and read the description, choose one, then press ok. In the former the war plans (troop disposition, declarations of war) for all are already choosen, the historical ones (like Schlieffen plan: Schwerpunkt in the West, Belgium is declared war on by ze Huns). In the latter one, in the first turn all you can do is choose alternative war plans: F3, Click on the pen to read the description, choose one & press ok.

2. Major parts of the Royal Navy are in Scapa Flow. For handling them (just like other forces) click on the base of the structure (city, fortress) in a region.

Some other hints:

3. Main screen/Options/media: I'd recommend to have regroup armies on and masked battle animation. The former will enforce proper counter stacks on map. The second one will reduce battle resolution time w/o interfering with the battle planner.

4. over-all on-map situation: play around with the map overlays (the globe above the minimap). They contain lots of useful infos. Arguably the supply mode is rather important: It shows the vital depots (supply production centres and relais)

5. F1-F12 contain additional screens with tons of infos, functions & options. So do the 3 circle like buttons on the top left. The regional decisions (dice symbol) have to be moved partly on map regions, partly on the diplomatic interface (the box in the upper right corner of the map)

6. You can move armies (3 star counters) together with corps (2 star counters) simultanious by: clicking on the army counter/toolbar/leftmost yellow icon/synchro movement (the 4 legs). This will move also the corps. But be aware. If you wanna move all stacks in a region by train, you'll have to acticate the move by rail icon (train) in the same toolbar for each counter.




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RE: Totally Lost and Confused - 8/29/2014 12:03:59 AM   
KurtC


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Hi all! I'm starting a new AAR for us players who aren't necessarily the experts of the Ageod system. This AAR will be very interactive as in, if you have a question, ask! I know what buttons to push and the minimal things, strategy? Hey, your guess is as good as mine. I'll go with the strategy of "Try not to let the other guy do what he wants to do, and I'll also try to do some of the stuff I want to."

It will be called the "AAR for us, the unknowing, "ungood" players!"

http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.php?36936-To-End-All-Wars-AAR-Western-Entente-against-the-AI-of-Central-Powers!&p=324721#post324721

< Message edited by H Gilmer -- 8/29/2014 1:04:42 AM >


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RE: Totally Lost and Confused - 8/29/2014 1:28:07 AM   
Werewolf13

 

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One wonders if anyone that is confused has actually read the manual?

That said: I don't have EAW yet but am strongly considering getting it. I do have Civil War 2 though and have since a few months after its release. I have read the manual from cover to cover and I'm still learning things about the game - which I guess - makes me confused too.

Hmmmm...

Never mind. Please return to your regularly scheduled programming.

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RE: Totally Lost and Confused - 8/29/2014 12:59:51 PM   
Tac2i


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As one who has never played an ageod game I'm currently reading the manual for this one. For someone who has no ageod game experience, this is a must I believe. Otherwise you'll be dazed and confused or put more simply: totally lost.

< Message edited by Webizen -- 8/29/2014 5:03:33 PM >


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RE: Totally Lost and Confused - 8/29/2014 5:23:07 PM   
freeboy

 

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One wonders if anyone that is confused has actually read the manual?

That said: I don't have EAW yet but am strongly considering getting it. I do have Civil War 2 though and have since a few months after its release. I have read the manual from cover to cover and I'm still learning things about the game - which I guess - makes me confused too.

Hmmmm...

Never mind. Please return to your regularly scheduled programming.


Seriously?
Blame the user? I read the frickin manuel four times looking for info on supply... ITs just too much game to cover without either writing a huge volume, or actually creating web based tutorials... not complex by our grog standards just intricate.. lots of moving parts...


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RE: Totally Lost and Confused - 8/29/2014 8:19:30 PM   
Aurelian

 

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The manual talked about Army Groups. I thought "Finally!!! A WW1 game that has the Russian Army Groups." Nope..... Ah well.....


France

The French Army formed a number of Groupe D'Armees during the First World War. The first of these was Army Group North, formed on a provision basis in October 1914. Army Group East and Army Group Centre both followed in 1915 while Army Group Reserve was established in 1917. A Franco-Belgian Army Group Flanders also existed briefly in 1918, under the command of Albert I of Belgium.

Germany

The German Army formed its first two Heeresgruppen in 1915, to control forces on the eastern front. A total of eight Army Groups would ultimately be raised; four for service on each front, with one of the eastern front Army Groups being a multinational German and Austro-Hungarian formation. Originally the Imperial German Army Groups were not separate formations, but instead additional responsibilities granted to certain Army commanders. Crown Prince Wilhelm for instance, was simultaneously commander of the 5th Army and Army Group German Crown Prince from August 1915 to November 1916.

All eight German Army Groups were named after their commanders.


< Message edited by Aurelian -- 8/29/2014 9:26:02 PM >


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RE: Totally Lost and Confused - 8/30/2014 9:56:38 AM   
zakblood


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how to make it easier or harder








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< Message edited by zakblood -- 8/30/2014 10:56:59 AM >

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RE: Totally Lost and Confused - 8/30/2014 9:57:28 AM   
zakblood


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another one,






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< Message edited by zakblood -- 8/30/2014 10:59:16 AM >

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RE: Totally Lost and Confused - 8/30/2014 10:02:19 AM   
zakblood


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seems it may be more of my cup of tea now, as i had no idea it had this level of customizability in it, now i do :)

this was shared by a friend, the screenshots that is, now i'll buy it

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RE: Totally Lost and Confused - 8/30/2014 6:03:46 PM   
henri51


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The game ( I have it) clearly supposes that the player has played Civil War II (I have not, but I have played Alea jacta est, another AGEOD game and watched some CWII videos). Some critical parts of the manual are more or less unclear, in particular the parts about organizing armies, synchronizing attacks and other things, and the tutorial is much too short(at the end of the tutorial it says that there are more tutorial hints in the campaigns, but this is no excuse), and the manual was written by someone with a limited knowledge of English (my first language is French too, but that is another story). There is a lot to learn by reading the manual anyway.Knowing something about WW1 helps a bit too, but don't expect most new players to be familiar with the Schlieffen Plan or the abilities of the Austro-Hungarians vs the Serbians (they will have to find out the hard way...).

This is really too bad, because it looks like a very good game. There are a few very good video AARs on Youtube, one by The Historical Gamer and one by Pewpewchewchew, but they are not tutorials, and sometimes the players clearly don't know what they are doing, which is fun for a video, but not for learning the game.

There is an urgent need for a series of tutorial videos and/or AARs explaining the mechanics of the game.

What I did (and recommend) is to keep playing after the end of the tutorial, since the area of operations and forces are limited, just to learn some new angles. Beginners should avoid starting with the Central Forces, since they will have to fight a 3-front war against multiple enemies right from the start.

As far as complexity goes, it is my impression that this game is harder to get into than the most complex wargames(WiTE, WitPAE and HOI3), but that is just my own impression.

Henri


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RE: Totally Lost and Confused - 8/30/2014 11:48:54 PM   
KNKnight

 

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People, first know your history of WW 1. Second, read the manual. Third, repeat the first and second again.


BTW, "I tried loading the campaign game. I cannot even find the main British Fleet and have no idea on how to set anything up. I think the designers are so close to this game that they are assuming WE will just "know" what to do." CLICK SCAPA FLOW, you find most of the British fleet there!

and .... please have FUNS.

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RE: Totally Lost and Confused - 8/31/2014 1:07:33 AM   
ceyan

 

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If you have a basic understanding of WWI (basic being anything beyond what you'd find in a school text book) then you should be able to work out the key concerns of the game to focus on. From there read the manual once and jump in. It just isn't feasible to build a tutorial that can really break down a game (note, it is possible; the problem comes down to time and money) of this scale and understanding the game to the level needed to enjoy it actually comes pretty quick once you sit down for an hour to actually execute some turns with the manual on hand for reference. Much like other games in the same league (even beyond AGEOD games) you pick up the basics fairly quickly after actually doing some turns although going to the next level is often the actual difficult part once you actually get into the game.

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RE: Totally Lost and Confused - 8/31/2014 4:41:03 PM   
henri51


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It IS possible (Charles Cummings[spelling?] did a tutorial series for Civil War II on Youtube): for example, videos on the menus, and creating armies and corps, videos on combat, videos on recruitment, and so on. It is "simply" a matter of breaking up the game into pieces. When you begin to learn Physics, even at the University level, you don't begin with General Relativity and Quantum Mechanics.

And BTW, the manual clearly says that there will (or should) be more scenarios and tutorials, which is a tacit admission that there are not enough. And also, after looking through the manual again, it is not so bad. Although there may be a few required improvements, it is well-organized and has over 150 pages. As an example of fuzzy explanation, in the section on organizing armies it says that armies can be spread out to improve defence or attack, and on the same page it warns that if an army is split into different areas, it loses its army status. It probably means that DIFFERENT armies can be spread out to improve attack or defence, but I understood that the sentence applied to a SINGLE army, which is wrong.Fortunately spotting a clear contradiction on the same page warned me that something was wrong, and after reading the section a couple of times, I finally caught the intended meaning (I think).In any case, the question of army , corps and GHQ organization is so subtle that it needs to be explained with examples.

One thing that I find particularly confusing is synchronization:does one have to press the synchronize button for each unit, or do all units in the same army synchronize if the button is pressed and an attack is launched. How about other armies and units in the same stack? Another one: the tutorial shows how to recon with the air unit by moving it to a nearly enemy unit, but the manual says that air reconnaissance is carried out automatically. When I tried to recon by moving the air unit onto an enemy unit later in the tutorial, it was captured by the enemy...

Henri

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RE: Totally Lost and Confused - 8/31/2014 5:06:38 PM   
zakblood


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ah need to read the manual

i see now where i'm going wrong


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RE: Totally Lost and Confused - 9/3/2014 12:41:35 PM   
mrfeizhu


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Its Like riding a bike very easy to do once you know how to do, i got the game yesterday, and if this were a bike i be on the ground all the time, but the game seems very good, the map and every thing is great. This will be a very good game once i learn how to play.

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RE: Totally Lost and Confused - 9/3/2014 1:02:15 PM   
vonRocko

 

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You can try the manual, but you won't learn much. They have the worse manuals ever written.They use the same one for every game and much information either isn't there or it is obsolete.

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RE: Totally Lost and Confused - 9/3/2014 3:18:59 PM   
awbergs

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: henri51
Another one: the tutorial shows how to recon with the air unit by moving it to a nearly enemy unit, but the manual says that air reconnaissance is carried out automatically. When I tried to recon by moving the air unit onto an enemy unit later in the tutorial, it was captured by the enemy...


IIRC, in the tutorial you actually move it closer to the front line, I think maybe one territory behind it. Then recon missions are performed in the area automatically by the game. From what I've seen, the manual is correct (in this instance). All you do is position your airbases close to your lines and the game handles the rest. And when you moved it to an actual stack, yeah, it just got captured.

But yeah, it's difficult to trust what's being presented to you between the manual and the tooltips. For instance, 2-star generals can't form armies, only 3-stars. And the manual says the number of "ribbons" (chevrons) on the unit card tell you the number of elements in it (but not really, it's actually 1 chevron = 2 elements), and the color of the chevrons tells you the experience level (but I have not seen the "bronze, silver, and gold" colors the manual says).

The best thing you can do is like you said though, just play that tutorial and the Tannenberg mission over and over again. Or dive into the main campaign like me, because I'm an idiot, and will probably make a massive mistake on Turn 20 that will kill me on Turn 80 because I was misled by some tooltip or whatnot. But those 79 turns will be a blast.

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RE: Totally Lost and Confused - 9/6/2014 5:47:19 AM   
Once Joey


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Thank You zakblood, that is extremely helpful... I am wondering how you also might have the AI setup?



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RE: Totally Lost and Confused - 9/7/2014 11:06:35 PM   
CheerfullyInsane

 

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It's not as bad as all that, certainly not any worse than WitE (or WitP:AE which in my opinion isn't a game but a second job).

Granted, the AGE engine takes some getting used to, and there's a lot going on under the hood but you don't need all the information in order to play well.
You can certainly optimize e.g. army organization by looking at every possible factor, but it's not necessary.
A little logic thought with a twist of historical knowledge will give you an idea of what you need.

But as others have mentioned, the best way is to simply jump in and see what happens.
The Tannenberg scenario is a must, and when you feel comfortable enough with the mechanics start a campaign as Russia, it's by far the easiest nation to get to grips with.
Only one front (albeit a very long one), and no navy to speak of.
In the end, acknowledge that you won't win anything in the first few games. Look at it as a learning experience.
Those of us who started strategy gaming with chess didn't win anything for a good long while (or is that just me? ), while we learned how all the parts work together.
Same thing here, except there's a lot more moving parts.

If you're coming from Civil War 2 or Napoleons Campaigns, the biggest difference is probably the command structure.
It's a lot looser, with army corps not being attached to any particular army, but simply attaches to whatever HQ is nearest.
In that respect it's closer to Pride of Nations.
If you're completely new to the AGE engine, C&C and leaders is everything in this game.
Yes, having a bigger army obviously helps, but it won't be much use if the commanding officer is out hunting deer in the nearby woods.
That, and your special-use units such as siege artillery and event cards. Those two are essential for the German player to get past the Belgian forts for example.

However, having said that I will agree that the documentation is...*ahem*...sorta lacking.
Not anything particularly new with the AGE series, I'm sorry to say.
Then again, since AGE does a very good job of patching up their games, odds are the manual wouldn't be accurate in a few months anyway (much like WitE).
The good news is that the mechanics in all the AGE games are if not the same, then similar enough for one to easily grasp the differences once the basics are down.

Trying to learn the system with something as huge as EaW is a little like trying to drink from a water-hose going full blast.
There's simply too much information to get assimilated in a single sitting.
What I do is split it up into parts, playing the start of the game 5-6 times.
First run is nothing but the ground units.
Second run, I'll add event cards.
Third, diplomacy gets added, etc.

If you have money to spare, a good intro to the system is Espana.
Much, much smaller scope and unit count, making it far more accessible.
(Not trying to sell anyone anything, just saying. )

@henri51.
Synchronization is done by pressing the Synch-button, then moving the HQ. All Corps in the area will then synch movement with the HQ.
Mind you, if you have two HQs and several Corps in one area, synching one HQ will mean that ALL the Corps will synch. You'll have to undo the movement for the Corps you want to keep with the other HQ.




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RE: Totally Lost and Confused - 9/17/2014 11:36:37 PM   
KurtC


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quote:

ORIGINAL: henri51

The game ( I have it) clearly supposes that the player has played Civil War II (I have not, but I have played Alea jacta est, another AGEOD game and watched some CWII videos). Some critical parts of the manual are more or less unclear, in particular the parts about organizing armies, synchronizing attacks and other things, and the tutorial is much too short(at the end of the tutorial it says that there are more tutorial hints in the campaigns, but this is no excuse), and the manual was written by someone with a limited knowledge of English (my first language is French too, but that is another story). There is a lot to learn by reading the manual anyway.Knowing something about WW1 helps a bit too, but don't expect most new players to be familiar with the Schlieffen Plan or the abilities of the Austro-Hungarians vs the Serbians (they will have to find out the hard way...).

This is really too bad, because it looks like a very good game. There are a few very good video AARs on Youtube, one by The Historical Gamer and one by Pewpewchewchew, but they are not tutorials, and sometimes the players clearly don't know what they are doing, which is fun for a video, but not for learning the game.

There is an urgent need for a series of tutorial videos and/or AARs explaining the mechanics of the game.

What I did (and recommend) is to keep playing after the end of the tutorial, since the area of operations and forces are limited, just to learn some new angles. Beginners should avoid starting with the Central Forces, since they will have to fight a 3-front war against multiple enemies right from the start.

As far as complexity goes, it is my impression that this game is harder to get into than the most complex wargames(WiTE, WitPAE and HOI3), but that is just my own impression.

Henri




I agree about the manual. There were things that I was hazy on and went and looked at the manual and could not find it, and I have a lot of the Ageod games, probably all but 2 of them - the two are The Spanish Civil War and the Birth of Rome. I think a lot of it could be spelled out a whole lot better.

I did an AAR but did not really touch on the button clicks and I know that could definitely be useful. I'm willing to help anyone out who has questions about what to do.

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Post #: 26
RE: Totally Lost and Confused - 9/17/2014 11:38:37 PM   
KurtC


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One huge thing to know is the letters "E" "R" "T" and "Y" I believe. The first set I believe cycles back and forth through land units and the second set (t and y) cycle through naval forces.

That way you can find anything you need to find. I didn't find the Grand Fleet for several turns!!!

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Post #: 27
RE: Totally Lost and Confused - 9/17/2014 11:40:54 PM   
KurtC


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quote:

ORIGINAL: henri51

It IS possible (Charles Cummings[spelling?] did a tutorial series for Civil War II on Youtube): for example, videos on the menus, and creating armies and corps, videos on combat, videos on recruitment, and so on. It is "simply" a matter of breaking up the game into pieces. When you begin to learn Physics, even at the University level, you don't begin with General Relativity and Quantum Mechanics.

And BTW, the manual clearly says that there will (or should) be more scenarios and tutorials, which is a tacit admission that there are not enough. And also, after looking through the manual again, it is not so bad. Although there may be a few required improvements, it is well-organized and has over 150 pages. As an example of fuzzy explanation, in the section on organizing armies it says that armies can be spread out to improve defence or attack, and on the same page it warns that if an army is split into different areas, it loses its army status. It probably means that DIFFERENT armies can be spread out to improve attack or defence, but I understood that the sentence applied to a SINGLE army, which is wrong.Fortunately spotting a clear contradiction on the same page warned me that something was wrong, and after reading the section a couple of times, I finally caught the intended meaning (I think).In any case, the question of army , corps and GHQ organization is so subtle that it needs to be explained with examples.

One thing that I find particularly confusing is synchronization:does one have to press the synchronize button for each unit, or do all units in the same army synchronize if the button is pressed and an attack is launched. How about other armies and units in the same stack? Another one: the tutorial shows how to recon with the air unit by moving it to a nearly enemy unit, but the manual says that air reconnaissance is carried out automatically. When I tried to recon by moving the air unit onto an enemy unit later in the tutorial, it was captured by the enemy...

Henri


I have not really figured out if they all need synch button depressed, but I HAVE figured out, it does not matter many times and that even different nationalities will attack in synch. Corps especially. Sometimes 2 different armies won't synch but 12 different corps will synch no matter what army.

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(in reply to henri51)
Post #: 28
RE: Totally Lost and Confused - 9/17/2014 11:46:45 PM   
KurtC


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From the manual... on air battles. The manual basically said that air units need to be close to the front and that they perform actions on their own. Per turn they gain initiative points from 1-9. If they are in full supply and they are fully repaired and at full cohesion they will get from 6 to 9 points.

During the turn they will perform activities based on how many points they have. And how far they are from the front. If they are late war designs they can move up to 3 regions to perform an action. Earlier war, their range is as small as 1 and can go to 2.

In action this is how it works. Most people are keeping air units in the regions with their armies, and the air units automatically fly actions, mostly reconnaissance at first. Later, when you have fighters, they'll sortie to attack opposing recon planes. I really did not look to see if they were bombing to support land attacks, but in theory they should if they are sufficiently researched to be that advanced.

Once the initiative points are used up for that turn, they stop performing actions, so they could theoretically, if they have 9 points, could be, in late war 3 regions away from the front and perform 3 attacks on recon planes or 3 recon missions.

_____________________________

My known forum name is H Gilmer

He that has a mind to fight, let him fight, for now is the time. - Anacreon
"There are no modern Nazis. The real Nazis in Hell laugh at the notion." - Gilmer, descendant of Poles.

(in reply to KurtC)
Post #: 29
RE: Totally Lost and Confused - 9/17/2014 11:51:07 PM   
KurtC


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Status: offline
Most people think the air part could be fleshed out, because all you do with them is build them then keep them close to the front. Then they fly missions on their own within their own parameters. The only thing you do is move them with armies, and sometimes pull them off the front to replenish, resupply, and repair.

The air battle reports leave a lot to be desired. They don;t really tell much except how many planes started and finished and experience of the planes participating.

_____________________________

My known forum name is H Gilmer

He that has a mind to fight, let him fight, for now is the time. - Anacreon
"There are no modern Nazis. The real Nazis in Hell laugh at the notion." - Gilmer, descendant of Poles.

(in reply to KurtC)
Post #: 30
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