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Free mining stations for life? - 8/10/2014 5:55:35 AM   
corwin90

 

Posts: 48
Joined: 7/14/2014
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Am I understanding the separation between the state and private sectors? Is this accurate?

Private Ships - Bought automatically by the Private Sector using Private Sector funds. Upgrades paid for by Private Sector using Private Sector funds. The State gets the money when the Private Sector buys or upgrades ships.

Private Bases (mines) - Bought by the State with State funds. Upgrades are paid using Private funds that go to the State.

Does that sound right?

In my game today, I created stripped down versions of the mining stations and built those using state funds. Then, once they were built, I upgraded them to the full version. My stripped down version might only cost 1,000 each in State money. The upgraded station cost 2,000 total or 1,000 to retrofit. I seemed to notice the State received the 1,000 when I retrofitted them. Thus, it seemed as if I was getting free mining stations. I paid for the basic model. But then the Private Sector essentially refunded my purchase price when I upgraded it to the full-featured model.

Was I seeing things correctly? Was the state really getting the money when I retrofitted the mining stations? It certainly seemed that way to me. This certainly seems like an exploit. Do you agree?



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RE: Free mining stations for life? - 8/10/2014 8:05:52 AM   
DeadlyShoe


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Joined: 6/2/2013
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not really. Civilians will purchase mining stations themselves, you don't need to build them.

there's a few ways of 'extracting' money from the private sector and sometimes it can get kinda sploity but in the end it's money that's been generated, it doesn't come from nowhere, and no amount of money will get you steel when you're logistically bottlenecked.




(in reply to corwin90)
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RE: Free mining stations for life? - 8/10/2014 9:26:53 AM   
Evan85


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I'm pretty sure private sector doesn't build mines on full manual - at least not for me in DW:U v1.9.5.6 b. And it's all cool, I play manual to have control over things like that.

I never checked if the initial construction cost is payed from state or private money, but that's pocket change anyways. Maintenance and retrofitting is indeed payed by the corporations.


Though I wouldn't use the word 'free' in this case. Your Empire still pays for those, just from a pool that not normally available directly. Using heavy mines is one way put that cash in use, but if you cripple your private sector, you'll need to cut their taxes (and your income) so they can get back in business again.

_____________________________

Why can't I make friends? Only my Nuclear Devastator understands me.

(in reply to DeadlyShoe)
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RE: Free mining stations for life? - 8/10/2014 2:49:51 PM   
PsyKoSnake


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Joined: 1/25/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Evan85

I'm pretty sure private sector doesn't build mines on full manual - at least not for me in DW:U v1.9.5.6 b. And it's all cool, I play manual to have control over things like that.

I never checked if the initial construction cost is payed from state or private money, but that's pocket change anyways. Maintenance and retrofitting is indeed payed by the corporations.


Though I wouldn't use the word 'free' in this case. Your Empire still pays for those, just from a pool that not normally available directly. Using heavy mines is one way put that cash in use, but if you cripple your private sector, you'll need to cut their taxes (and your income) so they can get back in business again.


1. You need to have the cash.
2. The civilan sector will pay.

Tips: Usualy when I need cash, I make a new law (Design) for station in the private sector and upgrade them all. But you need to be carefull, I messed up a gasme doing it because I took all the civilian sector cash and you need to have enough ressource to do it.

One trick if you dont want to have super mining station, because you always upgrade them, is to downgrade them and upgrade them again. (Damn the empire always changing law for the civilian sector :P)

(in reply to Evan85)
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RE: Free mining stations for life? - 8/10/2014 4:48:21 PM   
Aeson

 

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Joined: 8/30/2013
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quote:

Private Bases (mines) - Bought by the State with State funds. Upgrades are paid using Private funds that go to the State.

I think that PsyKoSnake and DeadlyShoe addressed this, but just to make certain that it's clear to everyone: the state does not pay a single cent towards the construction of mining and gas mining stations. The private sector pays the construction costs.

In fact, the state's cash on hand actually increases by the cost of the mining or gas mining station every time one of your construction ships begins construction on such a station; as far as I can tell, there is no cost at all to the state at any point in the construction process (starting from ordering the mine all the way to when the mine is finished) beyond the maintenance cost of the construction ship. I also agree with Evan85 that 'free' is a bit misleading, as the private sector does require some amount of cashflow (absorbed by freighter, gas mining station, and mining station maintenance) and cash on hand (used to purchase freighters, mining stations, gas mining stations, and fuel to power the freighters and stations, as well as by resource purchases every time a freighter moves resources from one point to another). Of course, in general the private sector will have significant amounts of money, but you can drive it to bankruptcy through the various tricks that players can use to extract funds from the private sector, by overburdening the private sector with maintenance costs for e.g. size-1500 superfortified mining stations, and by incautious use of smuggling missions, especially if these are combined with high tax rates on most worlds since the private sector's income is whatever colony revenue isn't absorbed by taxes or corruption.

(in reply to PsyKoSnake)
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RE: Free mining stations for life? - 8/10/2014 8:15:33 PM   
Shark7


Posts: 7891
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Evan85

I'm pretty sure private sector doesn't build mines on full manual - at least not for me in DW:U v1.9.5.6 b. And it's all cool, I play manual to have control over things like that.

I never checked if the initial construction cost is payed from state or private money, but that's pocket change anyways. Maintenance and retrofitting is indeed payed by the corporations.


Though I wouldn't use the word 'free' in this case. Your Empire still pays for those, just from a pool that not normally available directly. Using heavy mines is one way put that cash in use, but if you cripple your private sector, you'll need to cut their taxes (and your income) so they can get back in business again.


The state owns the construction ships, so you can order them to do whatever you want. The construction ships will build mining stations automatically based on the needs of the private economy. Basically, the private economy places an order for the station and once built, the state relinquishes control of that station.

Basically the way it works is that all ship building and space construction is nationalized. But only the construction workers are under government control, once built, the stations and ships become part of a free market.

_____________________________

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(in reply to Evan85)
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RE: Free mining stations for life? - 8/10/2014 9:58:20 PM   
corwin90

 

Posts: 48
Joined: 7/14/2014
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Thank you for the posts, everyone! I appreciate the responses. With only a couple of wins, I still have a ton to learn!

In my most recent game, I left the income tax rate on my home world at zero percent until my population was nearly maxed out. Before going negative on money, I built out my starting space port with sufficient labs for a max population home world and then a couple of constructors and scouts. It certainly seemed to me the State had to be in the positive before it would let me build any mining stations. At the time, it certainly seemed like the State was paying the construction costs. But since I was using "deficit spending" the entire time, it is indeed possible I was seeing monthly ship maintenance costs and pirate protection fees deducting from the State each time I built a mining station. Just to reiterate: if the State has no money, it seemed to me like the game would not let me build a mining station. Again, I'm entirely too new to say more than that's what it seemed to this novice player.

Similarly, in certain parts of the user interface, the game did not seem to let me retrofit mining stations when the State was in the red. Some parts of the UI would let me while others would not. That is why I was confused about how this works.

I didn't play this game for a couple of months after I bought it while I figured it out. Even after winning a couple of games, I still cannot say I fully understand the game. That's why I appreciate everyone's responses on the forum. Again, thanks a million for the help!






(in reply to Shark7)
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RE: Free mining stations for life? - 8/11/2014 3:42:55 AM   
Mortimer14

 

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Joined: 7/24/2014
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the private sector doesn't build bases, all it will do is buy mining ships from your spaceport and send them out to get the resources.

private sector will take over a mining base once the state builds it. they will also maintain and upgrade (if set on auto) that base.

I haven't found any way yet to build a mining base without spending something on it. You click on a planet and hit the button to build a mining base there and it tells you how much it will cost. That cost comes from the state coffers not the private sector. Also you could select a construction ship and then right click on a planet to get the build menu. This also tells you how much to spend.

(in reply to corwin90)
Post #: 8
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