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RE: [WIP] DW - Starfall - version 1.0

 
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RE: [WIP] DW - Starfall - version 1.0 - 5/31/2015 6:34:48 PM   
danymatrix

 

Posts: 61
Joined: 6/26/2014
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Here is savegame
SAVE
Look pirate ship with XL design, and other frigate private independent. Tkz.

About your research txt, we need start a new game to apply this fix? Tkz in advance Friend!

(in reply to fierceking)
Post #: 211
RE: [WIP] DW - Starfall - version 1.0 - 5/31/2015 9:02:54 PM   
RiftHick

 

Posts: 54
Joined: 2/23/2015
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I'm currently into year 35 of a game using you most recent release 1.01. I have not seen any troll ships from any independent (there are 32 in my game) and not a single one from the dozen or so pirate factions (some big enough to have 200+ ships). I'll keep playing but I already experienced save corruption due to the games inherent memory leak issue (this is why it's year 35 and not 48 lol) so I may or may not get to take this current match all that further.

Danymatrix, yes you will likely need to start a new match for the changes done to be applied seems to be the case for most changes at least based on my own tinkerings with various mod-able parts of the game.

(in reply to danymatrix)
Post #: 212
RE: [WIP] DW - Starfall - version 1.01 - 6/1/2015 11:38:47 AM   
MaxRebo


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Registered just to inform you of this, as I can't believe no one noticed it before:
Completely normal, already built ships and bases are being turned into troll ships randomly whenever certain processing is done by the game. They are NOT erroneous AI designs, and they happen to the player too, even with all designs completely on manual.
So far, the only game event which I was able to pin-point with 100% certainty to cause the bug is when research gets finished. A portion of all existing ships (presumably only from the faction that had a research project completed) have random superweapons added to them. This all sounds like a game engine bug to me, probably related to the 256+ components issue.

Potentially, the number of empires+pirates in the game influence how bad it becomes. I'm playing with 19 AI empires so maybe I'm seeing this much more frequently than others here. Also, the game generated 25 pirate factions even though I had the slider on "few" (1400 Stars, 10x10 sectors).

I can provide a save if necessary, but it should be easy enough to reproduce. And someone else reproducing it on their install on a fresh game would rule out me having done something to mine that messes things up (which I don't think I did though).

(in reply to RiftHick)
Post #: 213
RE: [WIP] DW - Starfall - version 1.01 - 6/1/2015 1:30:48 PM   
Bingeling

 

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I would think a save with an easy demo of this would be very interesting for Elliot. If they randomly morph into different designs, it looks very much like a game engine bug.

Look at the tech forum and the sticky "Where to upload save files". Include info about any mod needed to run it, and where to get that from.

(in reply to MaxRebo)
Post #: 214
RE: [WIP] DW - Starfall - version 1.0 - 6/1/2015 3:52:00 PM   
MaxRebo


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I was kinda reluctant to open a tech support thread, this is a bug caused by a mod after all. I never had any issues with Vanilla DW.

But since I can't post links, I didn't really have a choice. If fierceking wants to take a look too, the save is named [MaxRebo]_DWU-v1.9.5.12_Starfall-v1.01_ShipMorphBug.dwg on the Matrix Games tech support FTP server.
Just wait a few in-game days until Target Tracking finishes researching, and all hell breaks lose.

< Message edited by MaxRebo -- 6/1/2015 5:35:19 PM >

(in reply to fierceking)
Post #: 215
RE: [WIP] DW - Starfall - version 1.0 - 6/1/2015 8:19:15 PM   
fierceking

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: MaxRebo

I was kinda reluctant to open a tech support thread, this is a bug caused by a mod after all. I never had any issues with Vanilla DW.

But since I can't post links, I didn't really have a choice. If fierceking wants to take a look too, the save is named [MaxRebo]_DWU-v1.9.5.12_Starfall-v1.01_ShipMorphBug.dwg on the Matrix Games tech support FTP server.
Just wait a few in-game days until Target Tracking finishes researching, and all hell breaks lose.

Thanx for reporting the bug and uploading the file.

I did take a look and I was surprised by how clear the bug shows what is happening. It looks like every base and ship lost their shield in one instant and gained some type of superweapon. The medium spaceport had like 1 million firepower and even transport ships gained 30k in firepower while losing all their shield. There was no upgrade taking place. Just an instant change from normal to insane XL size of everything.

I hope they get around to fixing this since soon.

(in reply to MaxRebo)
Post #: 216
RE: [WIP] DW - Starfall - version 1.0 - 6/1/2015 8:28:37 PM   
danymatrix

 

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Joined: 6/26/2014
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It's good that you were able to view the event.I take this opportunity to let you know that the ships when they are in the state 'no mission' are trembling, something that not happened in pre-1.0 versions. Perhaps it has something to do with this, or maybe not. I hope it can be resolved soon. I can not wait to start a new era with these improvements. tnk guys

< Message edited by danymatrix -- 6/1/2015 9:31:36 PM >

(in reply to fierceking)
Post #: 217
RE: [WIP] DW - Starfall - version 1.0 - 6/1/2015 8:50:22 PM   
MaxRebo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: fierceking

Thanx for reporting the bug and uploading the file.


No prob. Hopefully they'll consider it important enough to do a hotfix release.

In the meantime, I've started a small game with 700 stars / 6x6 sectors and 6 AI empires, and sure enough, the bug still hits as hard as ever (and not only at completed research projects). So the magnitude of the game probably has next to no influence. Which begs the question, why has no one else ever had this happen to their Starfall games in such an obvious way? What am I doing differently?

(in reply to fierceking)
Post #: 218
RE: [WIP] DW - Starfall - version 1.0 - 6/2/2015 5:49:13 AM   
RiftHick

 

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I got my fresh game to year 97 with only a handful of troll ships in the end, the only troll ships where in one way or another linked with pirates. The only troll ships any standard empire had where ships they've boarded from the pirates (easy enough since they don't have shields, engines, warp or the ability to do anything) I knew they where boarded ships as the ships had the pirate tile-set not the races who had control of it. I suppose I should commend the AI for not nuking the ships as that would destroy anything else nearby in a chain reaction but can't help but rage at the fact they aren't able to determine that the ships are useless and should be scrapped along with their handful of pre-warp ships that are somewhere in the vacuum of deep-space. Something else I noticed it was only certain pirate factions that where having this happen, keeping in mind that I disabled all generic races from being pirates so that the only pirates are "PirateX", the few factions suffering this issue where not anywhere near the weakest or strongest factions. One pirate faction was so old (the only surviving original pirate faction) and powerful it was tech level 7 (the majority of other factions where tl 5 at best) and had 700+ ships but not one was a troll ship. I shall temporarily modify the pirate only tech on my end to give vanilla components of comparable effectiveness and start another fresh game, I'll let you know what I find out. If this does turn out to be something linked to the 256 component thing then I guess a temporary solution would be to prevent the newer components from being researched and merely make their respective tech lines boost the existing proven to be working components. This shouldn't require any changes to the pre-determined tech progress lists that each race as though it will throw the resources out of whack a bit as now there will be increased draw on some and less on others. If it comes to that I'll take the plunge and do it on my end and then let you know what I find out Fierce.

Edit:

No go in the latest game, while there no more pirates with huge ships (big because of super weapons) there where a handful of independents still making them periodically. For the first time in 3 fresh games I noticed my own designs being changed from under me. What was effected in cases on my end seem to be the more recently added components and not the older things. I'll take a backup of my tech file and then begin work on what is hopefully only a temporary fix of making all research linked with techs above #256 improve earlier components. I'll begin work on it either later today or sometime tomorrow then if after another fresh 100 year long game things don't venture yet again into the realm of high strangeness then I am willing to give you the modified file Fierce. Once the problem is fixed then it'll be a simple revert of going back to using the current research file.

< Message edited by RiftHick -- 6/2/2015 4:43:09 PM >

(in reply to MaxRebo)
Post #: 219
RE: [WIP] DW - Starfall - version 1.0 - 6/2/2015 9:46:43 PM   
danymatrix

 

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YEAH!

(in reply to RiftHick)
Post #: 220
RE: [WIP] DW - Starfall - version 1.0 - 6/2/2015 10:55:39 PM   
fierceking

 

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Joined: 7/24/2010
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What's strange is that I've never come across XL ships in any of my game. I can check easily enough by opening the Diplomacy screen and look the firepower of all the pirates. current game at year 2155 with highest pirate firepower is at 19k.

I don't know why only some people see the bug. I'll wait till the devs fix this somehow.

Removing all the components 257+ is just too much work involved. There are some components that are easy enough to change. The ones that just upgrade are easy to change but the others that are in a new techline would require a lot of rework.

The new techs are incorporated into the WeaponsResearchProjectOrder and EnergyResearchProjectOrder. Rearranging those numbers is going to be a lot of work. So for now I'll just put the mod on hold and maybe wait for a fix.

I'll probably put out one last update since I added victory conditions to all the new races and then wait for a fix. I don't want to keep adding stuff if it will just cause more problems.

(in reply to danymatrix)
Post #: 221
RE: [WIP] DW - Starfall - version 1.0 - 6/2/2015 11:09:41 PM   
tylerblue10

 

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hello all, just wanted to log in (don't often, but am a frequent visitor to the forums as I adore DW) to comment about the giant ships.

After implementing Fieceking's suggestion to the research.txt I have not seen a single xl ship by any faction. The mod is incredibly stable and works amazingly well.

Before implementing that research.txt change I did see the occasional xxl ship, which I just deleted with the in-game editor as I came across them. I did also see the instant transformation to xxl ships as well.

I guess I just wanted to say that it was not a major issue for me, and since the research.txt change I've been playing most of today without a single issue. I'm not sure if everyone else has implemented that suggested change? I'm not saying others are not having issues, but it does not appear to be universal - which is weird.

Anyway, my deepest thanks for this incredible mod. Between this and the Picard Era mod I feel very spoilt.

(in reply to fierceking)
Post #: 222
RE: [WIP] DW - Starfall - version 1.0 - 6/3/2015 1:53:01 AM   
danymatrix

 

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Joined: 6/26/2014
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people, maybe you can help me, not whether if be related to the mod. It happens that the exploration ships in automatic mode do not explore the galaxy and are left with no mission state. To some you think so? thanks

(in reply to tylerblue10)
Post #: 223
RE: [WIP] DW - Starfall - version 1.0 - 6/3/2015 4:19:09 AM   
RiftHick

 

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Joined: 2/23/2015
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Fair enough, though as I said the race files wouldn't need to be touched as they only tell the race what tech projects to try to research it as no bearing on what they actually get from the projects themselves, It's sort of like your troop tech lines or the earlier part of (first 3 or so tiers) of your initial DRC lines in that they change the same thing but in different ways. So it'd just purely be a research.txt change and thus no changes would need to be done to "race".txt or even components.txt, but I guess I'll go take a break. But I will say again that from my experience what components you get back are not entirely random but a uniform change say you have 5 Solaris reactors once it occurs you'll get 5 Impact Assault Blasters in their place, I can not say however if what the various effected components specifically become is the same for everyone. Hopefully better understanding will be revealed soon and take as much of a break as you need Fierce I can understand your frustrations.

Danny, do your explorer ships actually have anything system/ body wise they can explore? once an explorer ship runs out of these they go and sit idle (they tend to congregate in a few clusters when this happens as they head for a final refuel before realising there is nothing for them to do) that is off-cause until war is declared then depending on settings they may or may not make their way to the enemy colonies in some last second forward scouting effort.

(in reply to danymatrix)
Post #: 224
RE: [WIP] DW - Starfall - version 1.0 - 6/3/2015 11:05:26 AM   
MaxRebo


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This is very interesting. I had a feeling there had to be some kind of algebraic regularity to the component changes (something like (mod 256), just a bit more complex), but I didn't really want to spend time investigating this when I could just play vanilla DW instead Some alone time for quality 4X gaming is a rare blessing for me these days.

This might actually be easier to fix engine-wise then it seems. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem like the devs care that much.

(in reply to RiftHick)
Post #: 225
RE: [WIP] DW - Starfall - version 1.0 - 6/3/2015 3:29:09 PM   
mordachai


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Try not to disparage the devs. They've done a lot to keep improving this game, and throwing gravel their way doesn't grease any wheels.

Plus - think of this from their POV: their responsibility is to the gamers that play the game they wrote and sell. Making the game open for modders and supporting modders is a kindness that sometimes brings extra support issues and headaches. Rewarding their willingness to go above & beyond by whining at them when there is a glitch that is only present in a mod isn't very grateful, and it doesn't encourage devs to keep designing open games. Why should they bother if everyone is going to scream at them for making something imperfect?

Code is always imperfect: if you're going to mod, you're going to have to deal with working in the guts of the beast, and it ain't always pretty, and they ain't always going to have time to address your niche concerns.

(in reply to MaxRebo)
Post #: 226
RE: [WIP] DW - Starfall - version 1.0 - 6/3/2015 5:14:48 PM   
ehsumrell1


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From: The Briar Patch Nebula
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Although hopefully not taken the wrong way, very well said mordachai!



_____________________________

Shields are useless in "The Briar Patch"...

(in reply to mordachai)
Post #: 227
RE: [WIP] DW - Starfall - version 1.0 - 6/3/2015 5:24:20 PM   
MaxRebo


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Joined: 6/1/2015
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quote:

ORIGINAL: mordachai

Rewarding their willingness to go above & beyond by whining at them

I'm not whining at anyone. Don't preach to me like that, it was me who didn't even want to file a bug report in the first place for the very reason you're running your mouth at me. I only even bothered because a veteran member encouraged me, saying they'd be interested.

Being a developer myself, I find the indifference at having a dormant bug in your core technology pointed out strange, is all. A simple "we'll look into it, can't promise we'll fix it though" kind of response would've been more than enough.

Oh, and supporting openness and extensibility is not an act of mere kindness. It pays back big time in product attractiveness and longevity, i.e. cold hard cash. Just look at Skyrim.

< Message edited by MaxRebo -- 6/3/2015 6:33:39 PM >

(in reply to mordachai)
Post #: 228
RE: [WIP] DW - Starfall - version 1.0 - 6/3/2015 5:30:01 PM   
MaxRebo


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[double post, sorry about that.]

< Message edited by MaxRebo -- 6/3/2015 6:31:39 PM >

(in reply to mordachai)
Post #: 229
RE: [WIP] DW - Starfall - version 1.01 - 6/7/2015 9:24:27 PM   
Unreal2004

 

Posts: 27
Joined: 8/20/2014
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MaxRebo

Registered just to inform you of this, as I can't believe no one noticed it before:
Completely normal, already built ships and bases are being turned into troll ships randomly whenever certain processing is done by the game. They are NOT erroneous AI designs, and they happen to the player too, even with all designs completely on manual.
So far, the only game event which I was able to pin-point with 100% certainty to cause the bug is when research gets finished. A portion of all existing ships (presumably only from the faction that had a research project completed) have random superweapons added to them. This all sounds like a game engine bug to me, probably related to the 256+ components issue.

Potentially, the number of empires+pirates in the game influence how bad it becomes. I'm playing with 19 AI empires so maybe I'm seeing this much more frequently than others here. Also, the game generated 25 pirate factions even though I had the slider on "few" (1400 Stars, 10x10 sectors).

I can provide a save if necessary, but it should be easy enough to reproduce. And someone else reproducing it on their install on a fresh game would rule out me having done something to mine that messes things up (which I don't think I did though).



I am also having a XXL ship size problem, mine seems to happen once a ship receives critical damage, the ship INSTANTLY gains over 1000 in ship size and usually ends up crippled in orbit. This also happened to my mining station just before it was destroyed, it bloated to over 4k size. This does not seem to change the hitpoints of the ships/stations though since they are still super easy to destroy.

(in reply to MaxRebo)
Post #: 230
RE: [WIP] DW - Starfall - version 0.4 - 6/7/2015 9:31:42 PM   
danymatrix

 

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I also noticed a problem. And although I always put 30 races it generates 45 races. someone else has happened to him?

(in reply to fierceking)
Post #: 231
RE: [WIP] DW - Starfall - version 0.4 - 6/8/2015 7:47:51 PM   
MaxRebo


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^ You sure it's all empires and not 30 empires + 15 pirates? The mod does result in ridiculous amounts of pirates being generated for me no matter what the pirate slider is set to (except "none"), and not all of them are always easily recognizable as pirates at a glance...

(in reply to danymatrix)
Post #: 232
RE: [WIP] DW - Starfall - version 0.4 - 6/8/2015 8:00:52 PM   
danymatrix

 

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yeah, sure. 45 empires + 25 pirates ...

(in reply to MaxRebo)
Post #: 233
RE: [WIP] DW - Starfall - version 0.4 - 6/8/2015 8:43:30 PM   
MaxRebo


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Ok... as I don't use the fully autogen empires function because I insist on having certain races present, I didn't notice this yet. Will try when I have a chance and report back here, but I see no reason why it wouldn't be there for everyone else.

(in reply to danymatrix)
Post #: 234
RE: [WIP] DW - Starfall - version 1.01 - 6/10/2015 9:57:00 AM   
MaxRebo


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Hmm... nope, tried a few times, always got exactly 30 empires + Ancient Guardians + 20~30 pirates.
Strange how all these issues vary wildly in form and severity for people. I guess at least this bug's not a game stopper like your entire fleet being turned into troll ships...

(in reply to danymatrix)
Post #: 235
RE: [WIP] DW - Starfall - version 1.01 - 6/12/2015 8:58:10 AM   
IDoY

 

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Does anyone have v0.9 download link? I want play this mod once again but this huge ships makes me sad.

(in reply to MaxRebo)
Post #: 236
RE: [WIP] DW - Starfall - version 1.01 - 6/12/2015 10:27:48 AM   
MaxRebo


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Found it on the Internet Archive, but the mediafire link is dead by now. fierceking or someone who still has it will have to re-upload.
The post from back then was a disheartening read. The fact that they didn't address the 256+ components issue at all for 7 months doesn't bode well for the future of this mod. Guess this is the limit for a small team.

(in reply to IDoY)
Post #: 237
RE: [WIP] DW - Starfall - version 1.01 - 6/17/2015 5:00:58 PM   
ASHBERY76


Posts: 2082
Joined: 10/10/2001
From: England
Status: offline
If you start at warp tech level the players gets the pirate tech.You start with advanced armour,ect.Troop general got strange traits like weapon damage and not the relevant ones.

Really interesting mod.Lots of work done.


_____________________________


(in reply to MaxRebo)
Post #: 238
RE: [WIP] DW - Starfall - version 1.01 - 6/18/2015 7:28:42 PM   
ASHBERY76


Posts: 2082
Joined: 10/10/2001
From: England
Status: offline
Got one of the funniest bugs I have seen.A huge exploration ship turned up on my homeworld with 50000 firepower.It was bigger than the planet.

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(in reply to ASHBERY76)
Post #: 239
RE: [WIP] DW - Starfall - version 1.01 - 6/18/2015 7:42:38 PM   
danymatrix

 

Posts: 61
Joined: 6/26/2014
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yeah, **** problem. Any update?

(in reply to ASHBERY76)
Post #: 240
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