- If popularity was the sole determinator of anything, the X4 genre would not even exist
- You are talking about novels, these are games, entirely different formats
- Honor Harrington and Known Space, if you want feline aliens, infact the Kzinti are likely the inspiration for the Kilrathi, Mrrshan, and all the other warlike felines that were popular in X4s for awile.
- Ender's Game and Starship Troopers has insect aliens
- A vast majority has no aliens at all, bringing back my previous point "As for needing talking cats, that is true, you do not need talking cats, but we can take that a step further and say that we do not need aliens entirely"
- The aliens novels never took off, to my knowlege, so to call them 'popular' is completely incorrect
This is your example of popular? The Kilrathi from Wing Commander or the awful B-movie Starship Troopers? this brings back to square one of my comment. I wish they'd get serious with the lore because it does not get anymore shallow than the examples you list- while i got another fanboiy here telling me map scripting should handle the churches in an emperor of the Fading Suns mod, apparantly not ever playing the buggy imcomplete game of 1996 nor for that matter knowing anything about the Fading Suns Universe from the books. Read dune, and yes read Alien...and as far as i know there was no book series...there was just a book called alien written and released before the movie--which goes far more indepth than the movie ever did. There was likely a marketing scheme for a series of books based on the movies as a cash grab but that is not of what i speak about here.
Lore wise DW is as shallow as Starship troopers and if that is your depth then we will never agree on what makes good sci-fi. I find including talking mice, bugs, cats and all of it a kirt to avoid really doing the work on the Lore in the first place. It's B-movie Level shallow- and seeing the game is built around that it is no wonder one cannot mod something in with more flavor or depth.
The church from EOFS is mostly a matter of map setup and scripting, which is actually fairly capable in DWU. I don't know if you can set up triggers based off techs and the AI certainly wouldn't care about tech restrictions but you could set up NPCs that get angry at you for reaching for forbidden fruit.
Power is administered by noble houses, guilds, and a monolithic Holy Church. Psionic powers exist but psionicists are often hunted down and killed by the Church (or led back to orthodoxy and enrolled in the Church's ranks). The Church is also capable of producing miracles through Theurgic rites, a kind of divine sorcery. the churches;Urth Orthodox: The largest sect, Sanctuary Aeon (Amaltheans): Also known as the Order of Saint Amalthea the Compassionate. Healers and compassionate mystics, Brother Battle: This order of monk knights is the most elite fighting unit in the Known Worlds, surpassing even the Emperor's Phoenix Guard in martial prowess, Temple Avesti: Dreaded inquisitors. The Avestites long ago seized most of the seats on the Inquisitorial Synod, and have since then made it their duty to search the Known Worlds for signs of heresy, demonism and any other threat to the faithful, Eskatonic Order: These hermetic sages are often thought of as wizards by the common folk, but the nobles and guildsmen know them for the kooks they often are, Mendicant Monks (Hesychasts): Humble monks who seek to master and fully understand the teachings of the Gospel by mastering their minds, their bodies and their souls, and the Chorali: Blessed singers, whose very words hold something of the Pancreator's blessing.
on the flip side is Heretics, Incarnates: This heavily persecuted church sect believs that the holy words of Zebulon was corrupted by the first church fathers to suit political needs. Incarnates believe in the Incarnate Spirit contained in every sentient being created by the Pancreator, Gjarti: Forbidden belief in the Universal Mother and the various nature spirits that reside and rule her realms. Attunement to nature and the natural balance of things are important to this Gaia cult, El-Diin (Kurgan): The structured and colourful religion of the Kurgan Caliphate. The All-Maker, the maker of Stars is resposnible for creation of all things, Erdgheist (Vuldrok): The religion of the Vuldrok Star-Nations is as diversified as the various tribal nations that make up the Star-Nations, Zuranists: A animistic worship of spirits and master/maturity of ones spiritual self. The religion is popular among gypsie-like people travelling the wilds and Known Worlds, Manja: Ancestral worship originally found among the Li Halan before their Elevation to Grace. It still survives and is held a careful secret. Worship includes summoning and communing with dead ancestors in secret crypts holding their remains, Antinomists: A collective name for all those foul and fallen humans and aliens that worship the dark entities from the Qlippoth (Hell) and the Darkness Between the Stars. Always seeking ways to taint or entrap the souls of men and to destroy the worlds and humanity as we know it today.
To invade a world, gaining space superiority wasn’t enough – you had to land troops to establish a beachhead and fight your way across the surface, all the while keeping up a flow of new ground units from your homeworlds. As a result, EFS, better than any other game I’ve played, captures just how colossal an undertaking a planetary invasion would be. EFS’ uniqueness extended to its victory conditions. To start with, players could trade favors to win control of what was left of the Imperial ministries (space fleets, spies, border garrisons) – every 10 turns, the players would elect one of their number to be the regent, the one in charge of handing out these offices. To win the game, you had to first be voted regent, then declare yourself emperor. Instead of putting you through the tedium of steamrolling every other claimant to the throne, EFS “just” required you to be confirmed by a final vote after another 10 turns.
And this was when the game was at its most exciting. To vote for regent or emperor, you needed two things. First, each player’s voting rights were represented by five sceptres – actual units on the map – and these could be stolen from one another (or from certain NPC factions). More sceptres, more votes. Second, you needed a noble in the capital to cast your vote. You started with five nobles – four on your homeworld, one in the capital – and if they all died, it was game over. Rival armies would converge on the capital to slaughter each other’s nobles while safeguarding their own. Battle fleets would take up position to stop the armies arriving. Blood would run in the streets, as neglected garrisons were overrun by their more prepared rivals. And hanging over your head was the looming deadline of that second vote. That was how a race for the imperial throne should feel. And that was how a strategy endgame should play.
Buggy and incomplete-Vestigial, unimplemented features remain to tantalise the player – for example, you could throw your weight behind one Church sect or another, which had absolutely no effect but implies that the designers intended players to stack papal elections in their favor.
you simply are not going to get the flavor and feel of the houses, sects nor world in the narrow confines of government and racial tweaks that is in DW and no amount of map scripting is going to replace it.Such a mod just cannot be made because the basis of what defines races and the complete lack of support for idealogical leanings is not there.
EOFS is often coined as a cross between Dune and WH40k- and likewise mods based on either would equally not be possible.
You could possibly pull off a Battlestar Galatica mod except the moving fleet of humans would probably not be feasible as was in the series, and Starship troopers-- about the depth level the game actually supports Lore wise- and is the area a DW2 could open up-- by expanding racial abilities as also idealogical and religous- and a diplomancy system alone the same lines to support it.
< Message edited by eyegore -- 6/22/2014 7:04:26 AM >