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Confused about the Graviton Beam - 6/10/2014 2:39:13 AM   
Unforeseen


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Defining the Graviton beam as a weapon that uses gravitational force to cause kinetic damage to a ship...

Why in the scifi world would a gravity based weapon appear to be a visible beam of energy much like any other weapon while having the characteristics of a force of nature that is not visible in any situation.

< Message edited by Unforeseen -- 6/10/2014 6:29:55 PM >


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RE: Confused about the Graviton Beam - 6/10/2014 2:52:17 AM   
Aeson

 

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Perhaps you're firing a tracer along its path to provide better feedback to the gunner or targeting computer? Perhaps what you see in the game is intended to be an enhanced image, where weapon paths and types are made readily identifiable by painting a little colored line on them to enhance its usefulness to the viewer?

Beyond that, why does this bother you? It's not like it behaves 'realistically' for a gravity-based weapon, nor is it any worse than a glowing laser beam traveling through a vacuum or missiles that are so large that there's no way you could carry a reasonable number of them on board for extended deployments without some kind of ammunition ship providing support, or the various sound effects that play for weapons fire and impacts. Would you rather go in for a space game which is so realistic that we can't see anything of the enemy but little red dots on the radar and at best only see muzzle flashes and missile trails for weapons fire? I'm willing to accept a lot of unrealistic weapon behavior in a game simply because the alternative is boring, and besides which, a lot of these kinds of things can be "explained" with a magic tracer or image enhancement - you don't really believe that we have the god's eye view of the galaxy and everything happening in it within range of our ships just because we have a real observer there, do you? It is perhaps possible that we have something like that, but it's far more likely that what the game map represents would be a tactical or strategic display rather than a true image.

< Message edited by Aeson -- 6/10/2014 3:52:57 AM >

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RE: Confused about the Graviton Beam - 6/10/2014 3:48:44 AM   
Cauldyth

 

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Plus, it looks cool.

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RE: Confused about the Graviton Beam - 6/10/2014 4:12:42 AM   
Jim D Burns


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Unforeseen
Why in the scifi world would a gravity based weapon appear to be a visible beam of energy


Quick visual cue for the player that makes identifying the firing ship a breeze in game. Without it complicated sensor readings would need to be somehow modeled and identifying the firing ship would probably necessitate one or more clicks in game. So tell yourself it’s not a beam weapon just a visual representation of the sensor arrays involved in the attack. A cue that looked more like waves of energy would probably make more sense though.

Jim



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RE: Confused about the Graviton Beam - 6/10/2014 5:59:11 AM   
Tehlongone


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Yeah, a wave-like effect would seem more intuitive.

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RE: Confused about the Graviton Beam - 6/10/2014 6:13:33 AM   
pycco

 

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there is already wave weapons though, i do agree that the graphic chosen for this weapons is eh. imo the current graphic with a pulse effect would be best.

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RE: Confused about the Graviton Beam - 6/10/2014 6:34:13 AM   
buglepong

 

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Im more confused that there doesnt seem to be any counter to graviton weapons. They just cut through everything

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RE: Confused about the Graviton Beam - 6/10/2014 6:53:01 AM   
pycco

 

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bigger ships is the counter if your ship is bigger than the ship firing the weapon it will do little damage. also if you put extra hab and life support they will get targeted first, from what i understand about there damage effects.

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RE: Confused about the Graviton Beam - 6/10/2014 7:29:31 AM   
buglepong

 

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Bigger ship size counters everything though. Except max size

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RE: Confused about the Graviton Beam - 6/10/2014 10:24:47 AM   
Seraph86

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Unforeseen

Defining the Graviton beam as a weapon that uses gravitational force to cause kinetic damage to a ship...

Why in the scifi world would a gravity based weapon appear to be a visible beam of energy much like any other weapon without having the characteristics of a force of nature that is not visible in any situation.


it looks cool, 'nough said!

why do you smoke a cigar in a spacesuit? :P

< Message edited by Seraph86 -- 6/10/2014 11:25:14 AM >

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RE: Confused about the Graviton Beam - 6/10/2014 2:45:52 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

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Those are your advanced sensors giving you a visual display of what was just "fired".

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RE: Confused about the Graviton Beam - 6/10/2014 2:48:00 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: buglepong
Im more confused that there doesnt seem to be any counter to graviton weapons. They just cut through everything


The intended counters are ECM (Countermeasures) to avoid being hit, higher speed and maneuverability combined with longer range weapons (missiles, torpedos, fighters and bombers are great for this) to stay out of their effective range while able to shoot back and deploying larger ships that are less affected by the gravitic distortions.


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RE: Confused about the Graviton Beam - 6/10/2014 3:01:24 PM   
buglepong

 

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Thats ridiculous. All those things can be used to counter any weapon. They dont counter the graviton beam any more than other weapons

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RE: Confused about the Graviton Beam - 6/10/2014 3:15:06 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

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And yet, if you are facing a faction that is focusing on graviton weaponry, then investing heavily into Shields and Armor won't help you, whereas it will against most other weapons. Investing into Countermeasures will. Speed, Maneuverability and Long Range weapons work well against any shorter ranged weapon like the Graviton beam. Ship size really has no direct effect on other weaponry, but having fewer larger ships helps against Gravitic weaponry.

The emphasis you put in these areas will help you more against Gravitic weapons.

< Message edited by Erik Rutins -- 6/10/2014 4:15:52 PM >


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RE: Confused about the Graviton Beam - 6/10/2014 4:40:17 PM   
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I made a ship design where few of them were destroyed despite facing fleets of graviton ships (they were in small fleets as well ofc).

They had size 500 (what I had tech for), countermeasures 40%, Enhanced armor x20 and most importantly 2 repair bots (nice with a spare that can repair the other one) that restored components every few seconds and reduce damage suffered.

What made them work is that graviton ships fire slowly and have less firepower than other weapons, but as my ships kept restoring themselves they had to be focus-fired down to be in any significant danger. Size is a better defense against them than other weapons because they have less firepower. I did have casualties but I wouldn't say their weapons were optimal against me.

I once tried using graviton ships myself but found them to be a weak guarantee for damage, mostly suited for when you are behind to ensure you get some damage through but not as good as, say, phasers for consistent dominance.

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RE: Confused about the Graviton Beam - 6/10/2014 5:33:27 PM   
Unforeseen


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Yeah i was just saying a better graphic would have been suitable. Making it look like a standard energy weapon doesn't make sense. And yes i would a play a game that portrayed everything realistically and i'd enjoy it more than everyone else who played it.

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RE: Confused about the Graviton Beam - 6/10/2014 9:53:25 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

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Excellent point about Repair Bots, Tehlongone. If you have them researched, they are great against Gravitic weapons.

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RE: Confused about the Graviton Beam - 6/10/2014 10:05:41 PM   
MikeSF

 

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Well.... you can see a laser as a beam because it reflects off particles in the air (lets ignore the fact that you can see a laser in space battles ;)) maybe in a similar fashion a graviton beam attracts particles towards it and using the force of gravity compresses them so they heat up and give off a glow. Take that SciFi!

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RE: Confused about the Graviton Beam - 6/11/2014 12:32:54 AM   
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Lol maybe. I do know that if anyone in a scifi universe plans on using manned spacecraft[starfighters] then they would have to add on a light producing effect to any of their directed fire weapons to avoid friendly fire issues. Combining a laser with a stream of particles might ensure visibility. But it would have to be very well calibrated and the laser would have to have a ton of energy to ensure it still causes an effective amount of damage despite the loss from dispersion.

As far as a gravity weapon...ugh...MikeSF's idea is the closest we're going to get to an efficient lighting system for a gravity beam lol.

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RE: Confused about the Graviton Beam - 6/11/2014 4:09:16 AM   
Cauldyth

 

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In reality, fighters will likely become obsolete with the rise of weapons that fire at the speed of light (eg lasers). When "as soon as you can see it, you can hit it" becomes the norm, fighters become useless.

And in the unlikely event they do become viable, they'll be unmanned and integrated into the whole local tactical command computer, and visual enhancements to prevent friendly fire will be unnecessary.

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RE: Confused about the Graviton Beam - 6/11/2014 1:13:56 PM   
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I see them as viable depending on enemy accuracy and the cost of a new fighter compared to the cost from having a true ship hit, they'd be AI manned of course.

The "as soon as you can see it, you can hit it" goes both ways, if fighters are basically an automated engine with a laser gun they can head into space and swarm more expensive ships, provided they can be made cheaply enough.

I think they'd be called drones though.

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RE: Confused about the Graviton Beam - 6/12/2014 7:05:08 AM   
Cauldyth

 

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I would just expect mounting 10 weapons on one large hull would be cheaper than mounting 1 weapon on one small hull 10 times.

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RE: Confused about the Graviton Beam - 6/12/2014 7:42:16 AM   
Tehlongone


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Depends on how much it costs to combine a huge complex craft with antigravity and all sorts of defenses, as I understand it our seagoing vessels get a whole lot more expensive the larger they get, I imagine spacecraft would be much the same, and if the setting had weapons that they could only take a few hits from...

The drone wouldn't need anything except the weapons and engines so it all comes down to which part is more expensive, the weapons or the ships. Also the issue of crew, depending on how humanitarian the civilization is. Moreover a drone could be a couple one-shot missile tubes and could turn off engines to hide in space, many possibilities for cheap destruction.

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