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NOT Reinventing the Wheel! - 6/9/2014 3:27:02 PM   
John 3rd


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OK. I am beginning to work on my Treaty Mod and do not want to reinvent the wheel AGAIN. Has anyone 'built for the game' the following classes of wessels:

USA
Lexington-Class Battlecruiser

Japan
Amagi-Class BC
A Japanese CLV G.6/G.8

Would love to NOT have to design and create these classes. If someone has done it then I will offer you my first born son. The way he is currently arguing with his Mother presently, you could have him REAL CHEAP!


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RE: NOT Reinventing the Wheel! - 6/9/2014 3:36:32 PM   
btd64


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quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

OK. I am beginning to work on my Treaty Mod and do not want to reinvent the wheel AGAIN. Has anyone 'built for the game' the following classes of wessels:

USA
Lexington-Class Battlecruiser

Japan
Amagi-Class BC
A Japanese CLV G.6/G.8

Would love to NOT have to design and create these classes. If someone has done it then I will offer you my first born son. The way he is currently arguing with his Mother presently, you could have him REAL CHEAP!



Do you have any daughters??? They are a lot of fun. Especially when they are teens. GP


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RE: NOT Reinventing the Wheel! - 6/9/2014 4:23:38 PM   
Skyros


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Are you looking for the Nuclear Wessels?
quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

OK. I am beginning to work on my Treaty Mod and do not want to reinvent the wheel AGAIN. Has anyone 'built for the game' the following classes of wessels:

AL CHEAP!



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RE: NOT Reinventing the Wheel! - 6/9/2014 4:31:38 PM   
John 3rd


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NO.

I am looking for Nuklear WESSELS!

GP: You couldn't pay me enough to have DAUGHTERS!


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RE: NOT Reinventing the Wheel! - 6/9/2014 4:48:12 PM   
rockmedic109

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

NO.

I am looking for Nuklear WESSELS!

GP: You couldn't pay me enough to have DAUGHTERS!


I've got two of them! I need to purchase some wicked looking knives to place on the walls around the house as deteren...decorations. I've got a contractor coming over to give me an estimate on a moat. Maybe I can post a bunch of old targets about the house and get an old fashioned gun cabinet. Time the cleaning of my guns for when boys come over....

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RE: NOT Reinventing the Wheel! - 6/9/2014 5:45:08 PM   
Terminus


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I assume you'd prefer modernized WWII ones, because the old fellows are in WPO...

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RE: NOT Reinventing the Wheel! - 6/9/2014 9:33:59 PM   
John 3rd


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I'll take the WPO originals and then convert and/or update them. Perhaps Juan has them too...

ANYONE???


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RE: NOT Reinventing the Wheel! - 6/9/2014 9:44:21 PM   
DOCUP


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Hold on I think I might have what you want.  I found them in JuanGs Mod.

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RE: NOT Reinventing the Wheel! - 6/9/2014 9:47:08 PM   
DOCUP


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Is this what you want John. If it is it is JuanGs art work.




Attachment (1)

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RE: NOT Reinventing the Wheel! - 6/9/2014 10:37:43 PM   
wdolson

 

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The CLVs aren't in Juan's mod, but a lot of the others are in there. In the enhanced CV scenario he also added a number of conversions to carriers. I believe the Cleveland class can convert to Independence CVLs, the Lexington class BCs can convert to Lexington class carriers, and the Iowas can convert to carriers with approximately the capabilities of an Essex with more armor.

Other than CS conversions to CVLs, I'm not sure of the conversion capabilities on the IJN side.

Bill

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RE: NOT Reinventing the Wheel! - 6/9/2014 11:07:06 PM   
John 3rd


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THANKS Guys!

I've sent Juan an email. Thought he might have them.


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RE: NOT Reinventing the Wheel! - 6/9/2014 11:07:27 PM   
John 3rd


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DOCUP

Is this what you want John. If it is it is JuanGs art work.





Lookin' SWEET!


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RE: NOT Reinventing the Wheel! - 6/10/2014 1:17:38 AM   
Connfire


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Just sent you a PM from WPO land!

You might want to check out http://www.wolfsshipyard.com/Misc/WolfsDen/various.html for some interesting alternative and never-were ship designs.

< Message edited by Connfire -- 6/10/2014 2:26:17 AM >

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RE: NOT Reinventing the Wheel! - 6/10/2014 1:40:38 AM   
btd64


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rockmedic109


quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

NO.

I am looking for Nuklear WESSELS!

GP: You couldn't pay me enough to have DAUGHTERS!


I've got two of them! I need to purchase some wicked looking knives to place on the walls around the house as deteren...decorations. I've got a contractor coming over to give me an estimate on a moat. Maybe I can post a bunch of old targets about the house and get an old fashioned gun cabinet. Time the cleaning of my guns for when boys come over....


I hear ya.

GP


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RE: NOT Reinventing the Wheel! - 6/10/2014 1:42:22 AM   
btd64


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Hey John, Found these; GP




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by General Patton -- 6/10/2014 2:43:22 AM >


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RE: NOT Reinventing the Wheel! - 6/10/2014 1:43:33 AM   
btd64


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And this;




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by General Patton -- 6/10/2014 2:44:21 AM >


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RE: NOT Reinventing the Wheel! - 6/10/2014 6:55:49 AM   
JuanG


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Apologies for the slow response to this, did not have the time yesterday evening to get around to it.

Both of these classes survive as part of the 'what-if' in my Alternate WNT scenarios (which are available here, I have reuploaded and fixed all their links as of a few months ago), though their fate varies a little by scenario.

In most of them, Amagi/Akagi are both completed as CVs (no Kanto Earthquake or reduced damage in that timeline), whereas Kaga/Tosa remain as BBs. Lexington/Saratoga are completed as CVs, whereas Constellation/Constitution are completed to a modified (as in slightly less 'glass cannon') BC design.

The exception is the Ultimate BB scenario in which all of the above are completed as BBs/BCs respectively, and so its probably your best source for art and numbers on them. Here are the editor pages for them.

On the CLV front sadly I can't help, as carrier progression for the Japanese in these typically follows the Conversions/Hosho -> Shokaku (enlarged Hosho) -> (Soryu/Hiryu type CVs) pattern. The US does have a CAV with 2x3 8in in the Ultimate BB scenario, but I forget exactly what design it was based on.

Japanese Amagi class BC, following a refit/reboilering in mid 30's;

Essentially a faster, slightly less armoured Nagato with more firepower. Rather good fuel efficiency for their size, along with a heavier AA suite (more deckspace) make them ideal CV escorts. In this timeline the Japanese have a 40mm in limited production at the start of the war, but for a historical variant I'd probably go with 3x3 and 4x2 25mm per side (comparable to Yamato as built).

US Lexington class BC, completed to the 1919 design posted above and with additional belt/turret armour (as they were still under construction, the US argued they could use the Part 3 Section I-5d 'additional armour' clause partly for this). Slightly modernized in the mid 30's;

Again, another class that makes an excellent CV escort, though despite the high durability, the belt armour is still rather lacking. Like the other older US classes, this one isn't quite as fuel efficient as the newer fast BB's. They do have quite a bite though as the 16in/50 Mk3 with the 2240lb shell has the highest penetration of any US gun.

Lexington rebuild (based on the West Virginia modifications);

Only modest armour upgrades (deck armour is heavy!), main focus on AA protection and some anti-torpedo protection to enhance their role as close escorts for CV groups.

Theres a lot of other stuff (artwork and designs) in the AltWNT pack, as usual feel free to use what you want, I'm happy to explain anything if required.

< Message edited by JuanG -- 6/10/2014 4:40:20 PM >


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RE: NOT Reinventing the Wheel! - 6/10/2014 1:46:37 PM   
Terminus


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Are you assuming more engine power? Otherwise you're laying on weight without a reduction in speed.

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RE: NOT Reinventing the Wheel! - 6/10/2014 3:13:08 PM   
John 3rd


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THANKS Juan. Can I download your Mods into my 'standard' AE Folder?

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RE: NOT Reinventing the Wheel! - 6/10/2014 3:17:07 PM   
JuanG


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Are you assuming more engine power? Otherwise you're laying on weight without a reduction in speed.


Not as a part of the rebuild, no. I do recall that overall power was a little higher than in the 1919 design, though can't recall if that was as built or as part of the mid 30's modifications (latter more likely, to offset any weight from those changes).

I don't have the sims for it handy anymore, but if I recall correctly pre-refit speed worked out to something like 33.4-5 knots without overload, and the post refit to something like 32.7-8, so I ended up rounding both to 33 knots. Overall its a much 'lighter' refit than on the standard BB's. I suppose an option for a more substantial one might have been interesting.

Also in retrospect I note that I did not alter endurance to account for the extra tonnage/resistance either (or alternatively add more bunkerage). A lot of the designs in this pack are a lot less sophisticated in terms of modelling than whats in my current work (HD Mod, etc.), and I'm not entirely happy with them for lots of reasons.

If you'd like John, I can revisit these easily enough and run then numbers though the current system and see what comes out.

< Message edited by JuanG -- 6/10/2014 4:24:44 PM >


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RE: NOT Reinventing the Wheel! - 6/10/2014 3:18:19 PM   
JuanG


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quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

THANKS Juan. Can I download your Mods into my 'standard' AE Folder?


The only thing that would get overwritten is the aircraft art, so if you don't want it to mess with anything, it will need its own folder. If you dont mind missing a few peices of art and just install the SCEN folder, then yes, you can.

< Message edited by JuanG -- 6/10/2014 4:19:08 PM >


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RE: NOT Reinventing the Wheel! - 6/10/2014 3:31:10 PM   
DOCUP


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Juan nice work.  Love your mods.  I see the rebuild of the Wee Vee.  I see a 200 conversion time but I see that the main guns are changed to 50 cal  and there had to be other changes like the engines did the ship get lengthened?  

John is this mod going to be off of a DB mod or RA? 

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RE: NOT Reinventing the Wheel! - 6/10/2014 3:38:42 PM   
JuanG


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DOCUP

Juan nice work.  Love your mods.  I see the rebuild of the Wee Vee.  I see a 200 conversion time but I see that the main guns are changed to 50 cal  and there had to be other changes like the engines did the ship get lengthened?  

John is this mod going to be off of a DB mod or RA? 


Hi,

The ship above is based on the cancelled Lexington class, not the West Virginia - I just termed the upgrades as 'WV Style' given that I based the overall visual theme of the rebuild on that (as it is one of the meanest looking of the 'old crowd' in that configuration in my opinion). Should probably edit the post to make that clearer.

As you point out, the conversion is 200 days, the 16in/50's are part of the Lexington beforehand. She remains the same length though the rebuild, though beam increases slightly. The main changes as said were to the AA suite which ends up with her having almost as good defences as the new fast BBs.

< Message edited by JuanG -- 6/10/2014 4:39:37 PM >


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RE: NOT Reinventing the Wheel! - 6/10/2014 4:08:55 PM   
DOCUP


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Got you.  I agree with the WV's looks.  That would of been nice to of had a hybrid Colorado Class/Lexington BC Class.  Would of been a nice powerful ship.  Sorry to hijack the thread John.

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RE: NOT Reinventing the Wheel! - 6/10/2014 5:54:37 PM   
John 3rd


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DOCUP

Juan nice work.  Love your mods.  I see the rebuild of the Wee Vee.  I see a 200 conversion time but I see that the main guns are changed to 50 cal  and there had to be other changes like the engines did the ship get lengthened?  

John is this mod going to be off of a DB mod or RA? 



DB Standard. This is the entire point of what I am doing.

Will use DB-C for the new Mod Template here. Once I have got the Treaty Mod FINISHED then I expand the work and bring in all the stuff we have done with RA into a 3rd Mod that is a Hybrid of the Treaty--RA creation. THAT Mod will be WILD to play!

Choices for players will then be:
1. RA 6.7 that is partially Babes.
2. Pure Vanilla DB-C Treaty Mod (Only the new ships are added and NOTHING else).
3. "Between the Storms" Treaty--RA Mod on DB-C.


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RE: NOT Reinventing the Wheel! - 6/10/2014 6:15:27 PM   
btd64


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quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd


quote:

ORIGINAL: DOCUP

Juan nice work.  Love your mods.  I see the rebuild of the Wee Vee.  I see a 200 conversion time but I see that the main guns are changed to 50 cal  and there had to be other changes like the engines did the ship get lengthened?  

John is this mod going to be off of a DB mod or RA? 



DB Standard. This is the entire point of what I am doing.

Will use DB-C for the new Mod Template here. Once I have got the Treaty Mod FINISHED then I expand the work and bring in all the stuff we have done with RA into a 3rd Mod that is a Hybrid of the Treaty--RA creation. THAT Mod will be WILD to play!

Choices for players will then be:
1. RA 6.7 that is partially Babes.
2. Pure Vanilla DB-C Treaty Mod (Only the new ships are added and NOTHING else).
3. "Between the Storms" Treaty--RA Mod on DB-C.



OHHHH. Now I have to wait for #3. Well John, Your work is well worth waiting for. Of course. PM me if I can HELP. Help is on the radio......GP


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RE: NOT Reinventing the Wheel! - 6/10/2014 7:08:17 PM   
DOCUP


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I agree with GP.  I have to wait for #3.  I think that might be my 2nd PBEM, maybe with a few adds from my side.  I will now have to find a Jap opponent.

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RE: NOT Reinventing the Wheel! - 6/10/2014 8:40:33 PM   
ny59giants


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I already get first priority on getting a quality Japanese opponent. The cost of helping John. He will be looking for an Allied opponent that is not me!

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RE: NOT Reinventing the Wheel! - 6/10/2014 8:51:13 PM   
John 3rd


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Yep> I want to start a 2nd game using the "Between the Storms" Mod. Michael will be able to provide good commentary from an Allied point-of-view while I do the same from the Japanese side. Hopefully, our opponents will run AARs to assist in Mod commentary and observation. Don't want to play each other so we can work on the Mod and Issues without worrying about what one or the other is doing at the time.


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RE: NOT Reinventing the Wheel! - 6/10/2014 9:42:45 PM   
DOCUP


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John GP is looking for an opponent.  I don't think I could handle John.  He'd be in Daytona beach Fl before the spring of 43. John did Nygiants say your not a quality opponent?

< Message edited by DOCUP -- 6/10/2014 11:04:11 PM >

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