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Too many people on new colonies - 5/28/2014 5:47:40 PM   
Atridij

 

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Joined: 10/3/2012
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Hey there, I've been a stalker around these parts for a better part of these three years and I've made an account to ask a few questions about an immersion, but not a game breaking problem I've had for years with this game.

And that is that there are just too many people in new colonies, we're talking about hundreds of millions of people being given birth to within few years of initial colonization with 30 million people (and even this number is brutally out of proportion). So I have been thinking is there a mod or a way to countdown on initial colony sizes+limiting their population growth (lower births at first and normalized migration not in hundreds of thousands) based on it's development index, because it's rather ridiculous concept that just putting 30 million people on a new rock without any infrastructure would yield any good results. All you would have is 30 million hungry, freezing, homeless, sick and soon to be dead people rather than a recipe for a successful colony.

My proposed change would make game more intriguing and also put greater importance on developing colonies rather than just coloring galaxy map, spamming colony ships, then sending your fleets against whatever worlds you fancy or that your colony ships didn't reach in time.

So it would make an old colony with a fifth of the population of the homeworld (lets say with a billion people) and developed infrastructure be more worth than 50 colonies with few 100k people on each and Afghanistan level infrastructure.

I was hoping that these words would inspire few more talented people than I and spur them into action so they could make this idea into reality and make everyone's games more interesting.

I thank you on your time my dear DWidetes.
Post #: 1
RE: Too many people on new colonies - 5/28/2014 7:43:32 PM   
Osito


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Joined: 5/9/2013
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There are a lot of inconsistencies like that, but I think by and large they're necessary for gameplay reasons.

I think if you can accept that a colonisation ship can carry 30 million people, then it's equally easy to accept that they can carry the necessary infrastructure, too. Admittedly, both are quite hard to imagine.

However, I think there is a way to achieve what you've suggested, at least to an extent, although I haven't tested it yet. The current colonisation module carries 30 million people, but I believe you could mod it to 1 million, which is the minimum possible planetary population (at least the minimum above zero). At a population of 1 million, a planet will not grow by itelf, presumably because the growth rate is too low to add a mathematically significant number of people each cycle (I know this, I tested a colony of 1 million for about 5 years and it didn't grow at all - passenger transport was forbidden in the test).

You could also reduce the capacity of passenger transports to slow immigration from other planets.

These two changes in themselves would, I believe, at least partly achieve what you're looking for.

I'm not sure whether the game would be fun to play that way, but it's an interesting idea.

Osito

(in reply to Atridij)
Post #: 2
RE: Too many people on new colonies - 5/29/2014 2:11:44 PM   
Unforeseen


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Joined: 3/26/2013
From: United States of Disease
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Well the concept is that the colony ship itself is used as temporary housing while the colonists build the infrastructure. It's logical to assume that most of the initial colonists are likely up the worker class sort and thus have the skills necessary to quickly build a suitable city. In regards to the actual population and how it grows...it is very unrealistic against the games time scale but as said before necessary. The most you can do is either slow it down and/or drop the maximum population per planet which at one point i had a formula for making planets have realistic population maximums. Unfortunately that formula has to/had to be applied directly to each planet. Essentially you'd expect in DW to house like twenty billion people on Earth, the formula cuts that in half when you apply it.

< Message edited by Unforeseen -- 5/29/2014 3:13:49 PM >

(in reply to Osito)
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RE: Too many people on new colonies - 5/29/2014 3:41:21 PM   
uberknight72


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Joined: 7/25/2011
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Id say modding the colony ships down to 10 million and go up 10million per technology level would suffice. Perhaps the math will allow growth to happen woth those numbers, as well as slowing down colonization. Also aybe halfing the amount of passengers transports can carry

But at least 30 million on a ship is easier to swollow than the absured 1 billion that colony ships on Space Civilizations can carry.

I like to imagine cryopods are the reason we can fit so much.

< Message edited by uberknight72 -- 5/29/2014 4:44:39 PM >

(in reply to Unforeseen)
Post #: 4
RE: Too many people on new colonies - 5/29/2014 4:19:41 PM   
Tehlongone


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Joined: 12/21/2010
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Well a 1 billion ship would be acceptable as a world-ship sort of like some massive inhabited ships travelling through the galaxy in some sci-fi, provided building it would be prohibitively expensive.

I think one of the biggest problems is the swift population growth of humanity. I mean humans are 1.21, right? A 21% growth rate means most female should have a kid each year regardless of their age... After a few years at that rate it has to go down or it will require toddlers to have kids. Even exploding populations in earth nations have less than 10% growth. More like 4-5% with 2.5% being fast.

It's a bit of a balance issue though and I think much of it would be a moot point if the games timescale changed, like if every game second counted 4-10 times as much in the date as it does now things would seem a lot less illogical.

You could achieve what you suggested by reducing human pop growth to a realistic level (I play with 1.09 which is still a bit high), reduced colony ship to like 5m and reducing the room in population transport ships. The bad side would be that it would vastly extend the time where only the homeworld is worth ANYTHING economically and it would benefit high growth races a lot. Still realism has a charm of it's own.

(in reply to uberknight72)
Post #: 5
RE: Too many people on new colonies - 5/29/2014 5:32:38 PM   
Atridij

 

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Joined: 10/3/2012
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Tehlongone

Well a 1 billion ship would be acceptable as a world-ship sort of like some massive inhabited ships travelling through the galaxy in some sci-fi, provided building it would be prohibitively expensive.

I think one of the biggest problems is the swift population growth of humanity. I mean humans are 1.21, right? A 21% growth rate means most female should have a kid each year regardless of their age... After a few years at that rate it has to go down or it will require toddlers to have kids. Even exploding populations in earth nations have less than 10% growth. More like 4-5% with 2.5% being fast.


THIS!!!

quote:

It's a bit of a balance issue though and I think much of it would be a moot point if the games timescale changed, like if every game second counted 4-10 times as much in the date as it does now things would seem a lot less illogical.


Well from my perspective it would make the game more interesting, making a choice between assimilating new races to boost your population, but increasing revolt risks or will you use cloning and tax initiatives to keep your empire one race dominant. Further more we can have extra bonuses for population/colony growth depending on the government type.


These few simple changes in lines of codes will bring expansion level of innovation and refreshment to the rather stale mid-late game.


quote:

You could achieve what you suggested by reducing human pop growth to a realistic level (I play with 1.09 which is still a bit high), reduced colony ship to like 5m and reducing the room in population transport ships. The bad side would be that it would vastly extend the time where only the homeworld is worth ANYTHING economically and it would benefit high growth races a lot. Still realism has a charm of it's own.


Indeed it does mate, by all accounts.

(in reply to Tehlongone)
Post #: 6
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